The money set and the Previous sets

[HONGOGRIMES]

This question may seem absurd but it has turned me around in my head all this time, when I read a training split I usually find what it says: the last set to the failure.
Reading about routines like hit, DC, high volume and I'm quite confused, suppose that in one case we have 5 series and only the last one must be to failure, at what level of effort (RPE) do we carry the previous 4 series? Do we let some reps or simply stop when we think we're going to fail?
my other doubt is about what kind of failure: if we are on a flat bench and the last series is to failure should we look for a partner or simply leave everything until the last repetition but without the bar is left in the chest?

 

[Delt123]

With dc/ hit training style id definitly would advice a training partner or at least a spotter.

As for failure; I consider failure as these: struggling hard to finish the last rep but not really failing (not REAL failure), cant finish a rep so the spotter must help or failure in the sense that form is very out of whack (mechanical failure is this called I guess)

 

[brutus69]

look up reverse pyramid training.
do your first heaviest set first to failure. then reduce the weight 10-15 percent, do 2 more reps, and then do it again. and again if u want to do 4 sets.
why wait to do the failure set last when you're gonna be tired?
do it first, then use the other 2-3 sets as volume, and try to keep one rep in reserve on each set.
ive been doing this for months and still havent hit a progressive overload wall.
and im on trt only.
i love reverse pyramid.

 

[herculeus]

If you dont have a training partner, something like what Skip Hill does is usually what I like to go to. This is a post from his elite fts article, which I like because it keeps thing simple and less overthinking as I used to do a lot of that when in your situation.... my damn OCD . And his definition of failure is concentric failure or positive failure where you can’t move the weight again with good form.


“Nothing is set in black and white because I am unsure as to what amount of volume I can handle as I increase the calories. I will go into the first couple of weeks with about the same volume as I am using right now and here are a few examples (working sets only):

chest - 12-14 (3 to 4 exercises - usually 4)
back - 15-18 (4 to 5 exercises but sometimes I will do 5-7 working sets on the first exercise - just depends)
quads/hams - 20-24 (same as back here - if the first exercise feels good I might do 6-8 working sets)
Tris - 12-14 (3 to 4 exercises)
Bis - 10-12 (3 exercises)

All working sets are to failure. If I don't go to failure, it is not a working set.

Reps are all over the place and change all of the time. One workout I might warm up to my starting sets and stay at the same weight for 3 or 4 working sets, hitting something like 12-14, 10-12, 8-10, 8-10. Other times I might want to go up in weight or come down. It just depends on how I feel that particular day. It is incredibly uncommon for me to drop to reps of 6 but if I do, it is on the LAST set of an exercise so that I am warmed up the best I can be to avoid an injury.”

 

[1bigmofo]

look up reverse pyramid training.
do your first heaviest set first to failure. then reduce the weight 10-15 percent, do 2 more reps, and then do it again. and again if u want to do 4 sets.
why wait to do the failure set last when you're gonna be tired?
do it first, then use the other 2-3 sets as volume, and try to keep one rep in reserve on each set.
ive been doing this for months and still havent hit a progressive overload wall.
and im on trt only.
i love reverse pyramid.

any thoights on reverse pyramid with a push pull split? my push pull utilizes the 4 sets 6 rep training for the most part. im wondering if it would result in some overtraining or fatigue after a few weeks though, but im looking for a bit more intensity as i have been doing push pull for about 6 weeks now.

 

[zacharykane]

I didn't follow a reverse pyramid scheme for long, only about 4 week training cycle, but I also do a push/pull/legs split and never really have any issues with over training. An occasional extra day off here and there. My scheme would go push/pull/off/push/pull/legs/off/repeat.

Outside of reverse pyramid I typically follow more of a DC style of training.

any thoights on reverse pyramid with a push pull split? my push pull utilizes the 4 sets 6 rep training for the most part. im wondering if it would result in some overtraining or fatigue after a few weeks though, but im looking for a bit more intensity as i have been doing push pull for about 6 weeks now.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

look up reverse pyramid training.
do your first heaviest set first to failure. then reduce the weight 10-15 percent, do 2 more reps, and then do it again. and again if u want to do 4 sets.
why wait to do the failure set last when you're gonna be tired?
do it first, then use the other 2-3 sets as volume, and try to keep one rep in reserve on each set.
ive been doing this for months and still havent hit a progressive overload wall.
and im on trt only.
i love reverse pyramid.

Great! How many exercises do you use in a pyramid, the first ex or all? fail in all series or only in the first?

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

I didn't follow a reverse pyramid scheme for long, only about 4 week training cycle, but I also do a push/pull/legs split and never really have any issues with over training. An occasional extra day off here and there. My scheme would go push/pull/off/push/pull/legs/off/repeat.

Outside of reverse pyramid I typically follow more of a DC style of training.

Do you use conventional DC? for mass gains do not you think that a little more work (volume) works better from other angles? (more variety of exercises)

 

[zacharykane]

I used conventional DC last year for my offseason and I put on 16lbs of stage weight. It was a mind fuck not doing more volume previously I would consider myself a volume trainer.

This offseason though it's more of a modified DC. One exercise will get the all out, rest-pause/drop set/forced reps treatment, but then I'll do 2 or three other exercises as more straight sets just to get a little more volume and work in. The plan though was to always build up to more volume as I recover decently quickly.

Do you use conventional DC? for mass gains do not you think that a little more work (volume) works better from other angles? (more variety of exercises)

 

[juggy38]

I used conventional DC last year for my offseason and I put on 16lbs of stage weight. It was a mind fuck not doing more volume previously I would consider myself a volume trainer.

This offseason though it's more of a modified DC. One exercise will get the all out, rest-pause/drop set/forced reps treatment, but then I'll do 2 or three other exercises as more straight sets just to get a little more volume and work in. The plan though was to always build up to more volume as I recover decently quickly.

I like to do the same.....

Like slight inc DB bench, DC but like 95% true DC intensity. Then maybe 1-2 sets of cable flys almost to failure.

 

[Drago]

3 sets for chest ?

 

[bg091593]

I do push rest pull rest repeat. 1 set (usually rest pause, maybe a straight set for squats) to failure. I don’t do any exercises that I can’t fail safely with alone. I use the Smith almost every time I go to the gym.
For example today I did

Wide neutral grip pull downs
Underhand cable row
Single arm cable curl
Walking lunges.

Everything was a rest pause (increase weight if combined 3 sets are >15)
Walking lunges were a straight set (increase weight if more than 12 per leg is achieved).

While I’m young and my joints are good, I will NEVER train another way. At least not while I continue to make progress at the current clip.

 

[maldorf]

look up reverse pyramid training.
do your first heaviest set first to failure. then reduce the weight 10-15 percent, do 2 more reps, and then do it again. and again if u want to do 4 sets.
why wait to do the failure set last when you're gonna be tired?
do it first, then use the other 2-3 sets as volume, and try to keep one rep in reserve on each set.
ive been doing this for months and still havent hit a progressive overload wall.
and im on trt only.
i love reverse pyramid.

It is the best way to train IMO, as long as you warm up well. Phil Hernon started me on that. Prior to that I had always done a pyramid up and then back down. I feel like I get better gains off training this way. If you pyramid up to say 495 lbs on squats for a set of 8, after doing 3 sets going up in weight prior, you probably could have done 525 the very first set.

 

[maldorf]

any thoights on reverse pyramid with a push pull split? my push pull utilizes the 4 sets 6 rep training for the most part. im wondering if it would result in some overtraining or fatigue after a few weeks though, but im looking for a bit more intensity as i have been doing push pull for about 6 weeks now.

If you find that you overtrain then just decrease the number of sets or maybe only go to failure on the last 2 sets. Decrease intensity somehow or decrease volume. I would prefer to decrease the volume.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

It is the best way to train IMO, as long as you warm up well. Phil Hernon started me on that. Prior to that I had always done a pyramid up and then back down. I feel like I get better gains off training this way. If you pyramid up to say 495 lbs on squats for a set of 8, after doing 3 sets going up in weight prior, you probably could have done 525 the very first set.

what program did you use for this type of pyramid? Low volume? What happened with phil? I would like to know more about it, I find it interesting what I read about him

 

[juggy38]

3 sets for chest ?

Well if you do DC you find that you overlap (chest/shoulder/tri)

Db bench RP
Flys 1-2 sets
Db shoulder press RP
Shoulder fly 2-3 sets
Weighted dips RP
OH rope extension 1 set


See chest gets hit with two RP sets (bench and dips) then a couple sets of flys. So volume is actually like 8 working sets

 

[maldorf]

what program did you use for this type of pyramid? Low volume? What happened with phil? I would like to know more about it, I find it interesting what I read about him

It was low volume and frequent. Hit all bodyparts twice a week instead of the once a week I used to do. I am still doing it now after 10 years. Works for me.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

It was low volume and frequent. Hit all bodyparts twice a week instead of the once a week I used to do. I am still doing it now after 10 years. Works for me.

A while ago in the forum i found a routine that had recommended phil, 3-5 series maximum per body part and all to failure (3days on 1off). Something like that was?

 

[maldorf]

A while ago in the forum i found a routine that had recommended phil, 3-5 series maximum per body part and all to failure (3days on 1off). Something like that was?

Yes.

1. legs, calves
2. chest, shoulders, tris, abs
3. back,biceps, calves
4 rest
5 repeat

 

[juggy38]

Yes.

1. legs, calves
2. chest, shoulders, tris, abs
3. back,biceps, calves
4 rest
5 repeat

When o trained with Phil for a short time he had me doing

Chest/back
Legs
Arms
Off
Repeat.

I liked it, except the chest/back days wiped me out. I fiddled around with it and did 5-6 weeks of

Chest/biceps
Legs
Back/triceps.....I like this one but my elbows don’t lol