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Bodybuilding on keto/carnivore diet without carb ups

Cracker69

Active member
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Dec 21, 2007
Messages
279
Like a lot of guys on here, as I've gotten older I'm getting more health conscious, and in the past have run cyclical keto with regular carb ups, but would like to know, if any of you feel and look better and still maintain a degree of fullness staying strictly keto/carnivore? I get pretty flat on standard keto, so I thought maybe keeping test e a little higher might help with fullness while on low carbs, like around 500 to 750mg per week. I cant run 19nors anymore, so pretty much stick to long estered test for the most part and just run test only or maybe add a little mast e here and there. Just would like to see if anyone has done the super low carb thing long term and not look flat or like complete shit.lol. thanks!
 
It's wholly dependent on the person, I think. Keto and my body works really well together, and I can stay full, hard and vascular with no strength or performance decrease for weeks between a refeed. Some guys truly suffer and go flat as a pancake after a couple days. I can't speak from a drug perspective, but I know that if I want to see any veins and maintain my strength, electrolyte and water balance is absolutely crucial. This, too, depends on the person. Never shy away from sodium, but also never forget potassium and magnesium, either. This may sound silly to some, but plain old creatine is a life saver on low carb, as well.

However, chances are that you'll still go flat, eventually. It's not if, but when. That's just the nature of the beast. If you're truly carb phobic, have your refeeds consist of lots of high fat, high protein foods; the saltier, the better. You may end up doing a great imitation of a pufferfish for a day or so, but high fat refeeds DO work. I happen to be doing one as we speak.
 
Thanks man, I may get back on some good ole creatine and try fat loading instead of carb loads and see how it goes. I truly feel so much healthier and better without the sugar, it's just difficult to give up the carbs when they just fill you out so much. I just dont think they are conducive to health and longevity though. Especially with gear usage.
 
Most guys are going to look better by keeping their carbs at a regular, daily, moderate intake. Doing a cyclical re-feed for glycogen, etc, is better than nothing. But if you struggle to stay lean and you find that going low-carb is the easiest way for you to control calories, then so be it.

I wouldn't advise the high-fat intake of keto, as IMO its just useless calories after a certain point... nor would I advise staying away from veggies and fruits as in carnivore, as vegetables are super healthy, great for staying full and getting lean, and contain all your essential nutrients (many veggies contain, in small amounts, both your essential omega-3 and your essential amino acids).
 
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I just dont think they are conducive to health and longevity though. Especially with gear usage.

You are concerned about carbs (I`ll even say sugars) but sound like you are willing to run 500-750mg of test for extended time just to be "more full". :confused: A carb up does not have to be frosted flakes and oreo`s. Fat loading... WTF? You are not going to store fat the way glycogen is stored. That will not give you full round muscles like carbs. Creatine will help hold some of that water in the muscle and give look/feel you want.
 
IFBB pro Brad Rowe has been on the carnivore diet for the past few months so his social media accounts or recent interviews might be a good resource.
 
You are concerned about carbs (I`ll even say sugars) but sound like you are willing to run 500-750mg of test for extended time just to be "more full". :confused: A carb up does not have to be frosted flakes and oreo`s. Fat loading... WTF? You are not going to store fat the way glycogen is stored. That will not give you full round muscles like carbs. Creatine will help hold some of that water in the muscle and give look/feel you want.

Yes, I am willing to run 500 to 750mg of test for a cycle...that is total mg's, as I run test only. Considering most stack shit that easily equal or surpass that, I'd say it's about as healthy a cycle as you can do. And yeah fat loading is a thing, you would know about it if you've ever been into or tried a ketogenic diet. I've been doing this for 20 years and I was soliciting information from people that have experience, you don't sound like you do.
 
Most guys are going to look better by keeping their carbs at a regular, daily, moderate intake. Doing a cyclical re-feed for glycogen, etc, is better than nothing. But if you struggle to stay lean and you find that going low-carb is the easiest way for you to control calories, then so be it.

I wouldn't advise the high-fat intake of keto, as IMO its just useless calories after a certain point... nor would I advise staying away from veggies and fruits as in carnivore, as vegetables are super healthy, great for staying full and getting lean, and contain all your essential nutrients (many veggies contain, in small amounts, both your essential omega-3 and your essential amino acids).

Again, if you aren't knowledgeable about a keto or carnivorous diet, dont respond. It only displays your ignorance of the subject.
 
Yes, I am willing to run 500 to 750mg of test for a cycle...that is total mg's, as I run test only. Considering most stack shit that easily equal or surpass that, I'd say it's about as healthy a cycle as you can do. And yeah fat loading is a thing, you would know about it if you've ever been into or tried a ketogenic diet. I've been doing this for 20 years and I was soliciting information from people that have experience, you don't sound like you do.

If you`re talking about a cycle of 500-750mg, sure. It sounded like you wanted to use that for extended time to stay full instead of using any carbs. Even at that, a few carbs, or a carb up day would be more healthy while running 200mg test. Fat loading is more for endurance athletes and does nothing for keeping muscles full like carbs would. You wanna throw around the word ignorance? Understand that carbs draw water into the muscle, fat will not do that, nor will fat be stored in the same way or same place as glycogen. That added water is what gives you muscle fullness.
 
It does help with fullness, not to the degree that carb loading does, but it does. I've tried it, and seen competitive bbers that are keto do it. Again, I wasasking about ways to stay full while keto/carnivore. Something that is painfully obvious is you dont know shit about. I know how glycogen storage and water works dipshit.lol
 
If you fill your diet with vegetables, fats and proteins, I do not see why you will feel without muscle fullness.
 
I think each person is different . I look and feel great on keto... I like test base pre workout so I’m always full looking. I take a scoop of sugar free pre workout and a scoop of exogenous ketones and have great workouts. ( I only use exogenous ketones for pre workout.. they don’t actually put you in ketosis)
 
Why is it always the idiots are the first to voice their opinions? I swear, I asked a pretty clear question, what are some methods you keto/carnivore guys maintain a degree of fullness without carb ups? A couple of guys had some good input, and confirmed some things I know but may try again once I dont carb load. But then a couple of guys get on here and just criticize and say "just eat carbs, it doesnt have to be Oreos or frosted flakes." Wow!!!thanks that's amazing! "Eat your fruits and veggies" bro!lol. "You don't need all that fat". Just flat out ignorance. If a vegetarian came in here and asked how to get more protein, these would be the guys that respond by saying, "just eat meat bro".lmao. Thanks man, I'll run an HRT dose and eat carbs, you really cleared that up for me. Just wow.lol

This discussion gets oddly personal and I will never understand why. The cult-like way people follow diets is strange and even more so how odd it is when people get offended when a diet is criticized. That's not really directed at you just a general thought when these threads pop up.

As someone who uses keto on and off here are a few thoughts...

I have no problem staying full 100% in keto for long periods if sodium is kept really high. Don't shy away from it. If you are working out hard on no carbs there is no reason to avoid sodium at all in fact I shoot for 4-6 grams a day when I'm on no carbs.

As others noted you may still find yourself a bit flat and you can experiment maybe very small, but strategic carb ups infrequently?

The only other thing I'd mention (again, I'm someone that uses keto on and off) is after long periods of time many people will notice their LDL rise if they are not losing weight or once weight loss stops. All my lipids improve while i lose weight but if there is no weight loss I see my LDL go up substantially over time. Just something to be aware of.

If you are still tossing around the idea of some carbs here and there what I did for about three months was just "healthy" carb ups. In essence it was about 2-3 pounds of fruit (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, apples, pineapple, cherries, kiwi and oranges mostly) every 5 or 6 days and literally ate 8-15 services of greens a day on no carb days and kept sodium high on the no carb days.

That strategy worked better than anything I've ever done. I felt great, got to eat a ton of fruit ever so often and my bloodwork was the best it ever was on keto. The morning after the fruit carb up I'd wake up and feel like a freaking million bucks and be full and refreshed. I also just felt great going to bed after that. And...2-3 pounds of fruit is only 450-650 calories depending on the fruit.

anyway just random thoughts.
 
I can't stand the cult-like attitude and weirdos some diets attract either, and I dont think practicing in absolutes is ideal. That being said, stupidity is annoying. And that statement is not directed to you either. Thank you for your input brother. I have not tried exo ketones, I'm a bit skeptical. Do you feel like those have some benefits? So far the sodium and fat loading has worked to a degree, Ihaven't used creatine in years, so I may try that again. I reall want to get away from the fruits and veggies though. Just not optimal for health and longevity in my opinion, and are problematic when it comes to flaring up auto immune disorders like ulcerative colitis. No carbs, mostly meat and eggs, and i have no problems. Just looking to see what methods different people use to stay as full as possible on such a regime. Thanks again!
 
Keto was one of most effective things I tried for fat loss purposes but I was flat as a pancake all the way through it.

Tried it for 6 months to give it a fair go, tried every possible electrolyte combination etc, just felt like shit, flat and my workouts sucked compared to carbed up. It was however the most effective fat loss tool I've used to date.

With that said my biological(just stating this as usually we respond to things the same) brother uses keto, doesn't pay attention to electrolytes etc for the most par(basic mag/pottasium supp) and feels great, completely full on it and no issues in the gym.

I've also run consistent bloodwork on keto and low carb and the results have been very similar but this was in a calorie reduced state for both, with cardio and clean eating etc

I'm currently cutting and feel the best intermittent fasting with 150-175 grams of carbs mostly around my workout window. Took me years of experimentation to find thats what works best for me, and I think thats the key, experimenting as everybody reacts so differently.
 
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Water, salt and fats, is a protocol used by some competitors that spill with carbs. The same should work for what you are looking for.
 
I can't stand the cult-like attitude and weirdos some diets attract either, and I dont think practicing in absolutes is ideal. That being said, stupidity is annoying. And that statement is not directed to you either. Thank you for your input brother. I have not tried exo ketones, I'm a bit skeptical. Do you feel like those have some benefits? So far the sodium and fat loading has worked to a degree, Ihaven't used creatine in years, so I may try that again. I reall want to get away from the fruits and veggies though. Just not optimal for health and longevity in my opinion, and are problematic when it comes to flaring up auto immune disorders like ulcerative colitis. No carbs, mostly meat and eggs, and i have no problems. Just looking to see what methods different people use to stay as full as possible on such a regime. Thanks again!

All good. With a medical condition like UC I just don’t know enough to give you advice. The more veggies I eat and fruit the better my bloodwork and better I feel. However...having a friend with UC he’d damn near die if he ate what I ate lol. I was at 2 tomato’s, 2 cucumbers, 9 stalks of celery, 4 cups of broccoli, 8 cups of spinach and 2 red peppers and a half bag of baby carrots yesterday. My buddy with UC would shit his colon out just thinking about that.

Sorry man wish I could be of better service but I understand chrons and UC are tricky conditions with diet and I don’t have the knowledge or expertise.
 
Like a lot of guys on here, as I've gotten older I'm getting more health conscious, and in the past have run cyclical keto with regular carb ups, but would like to know, if any of you feel and look better and still maintain a degree of fullness staying strictly keto/carnivore? I get pretty flat on standard keto, so I thought maybe keeping test e a little higher might help with fullness while on low carbs, like around 500 to 750mg per week. I cant run 19nors anymore, so pretty much stick to long estered test for the most part and just run test only or maybe add a little mast e here and there. Just would like to see if anyone has done the super low carb thing long term and not look flat or like complete shit.lol. thanks!

there are plenty of examples of very BIG guys running low or no carbs for long periods. if you have enough muscle how flat you look is sort of relative.

if you need that much test to look full there is probably a bigger issue. with all respect, no idea if the issue is in your head or the gym. i hope you understand what i mean by that.

bboys prep thread i think is a very good example. very big guy, very responsible with diet and gear, maybe a good example to help you out.
 
Yeah I'm not massive by any means, 40yo, 5'8" approx 12%bf, 220 carb loaded, about 205 depleted. Quote a difference to me anyway. But thank you all for some of the recommendations, I'll check some of them out for sure.
 

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