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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:36 AM
Kilo Klub Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,776
TRT Post Cancer

Howdy all,

It has been several years since Ive been active on the forum. A huge thank you to BigA for getting my account back up.


I used to be pretty heavily into bodybuilding cycles of 1-3g per week + peptides etc.


In 2013 I received a liver cancer diagnosis
In 2015 a leukemia diagnosis


I have been in full remission since 2017. Completely healthy at the moment. I have been hesitant to hop onto TRT due to the complexities of Anabolics and cancer cell proliferation.


I recently did a hormone test and on the 200-900 scale came back at a 248. I was prescribed 50mg clomiphene + 300IU HCG (30 units). My level bounced up to 448.

The doc bumped me up to 400IU and maintaining the clomid.


They would like to put me on prescription test however I deploy frequently and bringing injectibles isnt possible. I am interested in conceiving in around 3 years (just got married).

There is also a conversation about prescription GH at 1-2 units daily. I currently take metformin to lower my IGF due to the correlation between cancer and IGF.

Thoughts? Thank you!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2019, 03:56 AM
thethinker48's Avatar
Featured Member / Kilo Klub
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,997
Why are they even talking about therapeutic GH use in someone with a history of cancer?

Was your HP carcinoma ever linked to anabolic use by the docs? Id refer to your docs on this, I know some are comfortable with TRT, but Id have a good discussion with your oncologist on this and get his opinion on it.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2019, 02:49 AM
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 152
your test levels are super low so you must be feeling like crap

dive into pubmed and see lots of research on trt and cancer.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:51 PM
Kilo Klub Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMCCHRIS View Post
Howdy all,

It has been several years since Ive been active on the forum. A huge thank you to BigA for getting my account back up.


I used to be pretty heavily into bodybuilding cycles of 1-3g per week + peptides etc.


In 2013 I received a liver cancer diagnosis
In 2015 a leukemia diagnosis


I have been in full remission since 2017. Completely healthy at the moment. I have been hesitant to hop onto TRT due to the complexities of Anabolics and cancer cell proliferation.


I recently did a hormone test and on the 200-900 scale came back at a 248. I was prescribed 50mg clomiphene + 300IU HCG (30 units). My level bounced up to 448.

The doc bumped me up to 400IU and maintaining the clomid.


They would like to put me on prescription test however I deploy frequently and bringing injectibles isnt possible. I am interested in conceiving in around 3 years (just got married).

There is also a conversation about prescription GH at 1-2 units daily. I currently take metformin to lower my IGF due to the correlation between cancer and IGF.

Thoughts? Thank you!
damn man have not seen you in a while, sounds like you been having a hell of a fight, are you military or security? anyway bro I would for sure consult your oncologist about it even 2nd opinion if you want that, personally I would stay away from GH but hey thats me, good luck to ya and if you get on trt make it trt, lol, dont get carried away with it
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:25 PM
Black Beard's Avatar
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 307
In regards to TRT and HGH after cancer, as long as you are keeping levels within the physiological range, there can only be health benefits.

Living with a Total test in the 200s, quality of life AND health will take a hit. Low testosterone is linked to heart disease, depression, bone/muscle loss, and more health issues. The GH is more controversial, but if you are only taking 1-2 IU to bump your IGF into the 200s (mid 20's level), there should be no problem.


HGH is not linked to causing cancer, but to possibly accelerating the growth of an already existing malignancy.


My 2 cents, TRT+GH at physiological replacement levels is a good idea. Just get checked for malignancies every 6-12 months and enjoy your life.



p.s.

Low igf levels have actually been linked to malignancies.

Last edited by Black Beard; 07-27-2019 at 10:34 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:28 PM
Black Beard's Avatar
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethinker48 View Post
Why are they even talking about therapeutic GH use in someone with a history of cancer?

Was your HP carcinoma ever linked to anabolic use by the docs? Id refer to your docs on this, I know some are comfortable with TRT, but Id have a good discussion with your oncologist on this and get his opinion on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many doctors and oncologist will say no to TRT just to cover their asses. Their priority is their own safety first and foremost, not a patient's quality of life.

That's why they see you with very low testosterone and most don't care. As long as you aren't dying, they could care less if you feel like garbage.

P.S

I am a clinician myself. Some doctors do care but many will shy away from saying okay to HRT even though there is no risk.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2019, 03:58 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Beard View Post
Many doctors and oncologist will say no to TRT just to cover their asses. Their priority is their own safety first and foremost, not a patient's quality of life.

That's why they see you with very low testosterone and most don't care. As long as you aren't dying, they could care less if you feel like garbage.

P.S

I am a clinician myself. Some doctors do care but many will shy away from saying okay to HRT even though there is no risk.
sad but true brother

docs firstly dont understand trt and hormone optimalisation and therefore feeling like shit is not something they care about. can you work, pay taxes and stfu? if yes then his job is done.

docs jobs isnt to make us feel king kong in life and kick ass, because he himself isnt on that same level so dont expect somebody to help you beyond what they are doing for themselves. most docs are very unhealthy and stressed out. this is a well known research fact
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:58 AM
thethinker48's Avatar
Featured Member / Kilo Klub
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Beard View Post
Many doctors and oncologist will say no to TRT just to cover their asses. Their priority is their own safety first and foremost, not a patient's quality of life.



That's why they see you with very low testosterone and most don't care. As long as you aren't dying, they could care less if you feel like garbage.



P.S



I am a clinician myself. Some doctors do care but many will shy away from saying okay to HRT even though there is no risk.


Youd probably know more than most in that case.

There is real life cases of people having HC adenomas turn into carcinomas when they continued with androgen use, even in therapeutic doses; weve had that be mentioned on here before. Someone can correct me on this, but androgen signaling in receptors plays a role in the initiation of HC carcinoma.

Anything that turns on growth factors would scare me personally with a history of cancer; now testosterone in true trt doses wouldnt be illogical with hypogonadism, but I dont know where it would fall with this stuff.

This is my (quite literally) useless opinion on this stuff; Id go by your best judgment. All Ill say is; let the scientist in you make the decision, not the bodybuilder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2019, 11:35 AM
Kilo Klub Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethinker48 View Post
Youd probably know more than most in that case.

There is real life cases of people having HC adenomas turn into carcinomas when they continued with androgen use, even in therapeutic doses; weve had that be mentioned on here before. Someone can correct me on this, but androgen signaling in receptors plays a role in the initiation of HC carcinoma.

Anything that turns on growth factors would scare me personally with a history of cancer; now testosterone in true trt doses wouldnt be illogical with hypogonadism, but I dont know where it would fall with this stuff.

This is my (quite literally) useless opinion on this stuff; Id go by your best judgment. All Ill say is; let the scientist in you make the decision, not the bodybuilder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i did not say much about because like I said he should follow docs advice and not somebody on the internet, I would think true TRT be ok but again he should follow oncologist about that, he is taking metformin for a reason and im sure it has been prescribed to him so no way I would take gh not even at 1 or 2iu
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2019, 01:55 AM
Newbie Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3
In 2014 I had testicular cancer (#singlejingle) - working with Dr Saya for my TRT...I am 29, when tested last year my levels were ~300 and estradial 30, LH 9.9(high)..so we jumped straight to TRT - no HCG.

We test the same tumor markers (AFP & hCG) my oncologist test for(optional, but I am more comfortable with more frequent test), when we do bloods.

My oncologist(s) are both comfortable with it as long as I keep everything monitored - both are fully aware of the range of TRT that can be prescribed...1 of them knew of Dr. Saya and was glad I went with him vs another well know clinic in the Tampa area.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2019, 07:03 AM
pickapeck's Avatar
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 547
Here are the top 20 reviews concerning IGF-1/insulin axis and risk of cancer. If it were me that is in remission from multiple cancers I would probably look into the risks at length.

1: Buono R, Longo VD. Starvation, Stress Resistance, and Cancer. Trends
Endocrinol Metab. 2018 Apr;29(4):271-280. doi: 10.1016/j.tem.2018.01.008. Epub
2018 Feb 17. Review. PubMed PMID: 29463451.


2: de-Freitas-Junior JCM, Andrade-da-Costa J, Silva MC, Pinho SS. Glycans as
Regulatory Elements of the Insulin/IGF System: Impact in Cancer Progression. Int
J Mol Sci. 2017 Sep 7;18(9). pii: E1921. doi: 10.3390/ijms18091921. Review.
PubMed PMID: 28880250; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5618570.


3: Shanmugalingam T, Bosco C, Ridley AJ, Van Hemelrijck M. Is there a role for
IGF-1 in the development of second primary cancers? Cancer Med. 2016
Nov;5(11):3353-3367. doi: 10.1002/cam4.871. Epub 2016 Oct 13. Review. PubMed
PMID: 27734632; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5119990.


4: Zielinska HA, Bahl A, Holly JM, Perks CM. Epithelial-to-mesenchymal transition
in breast cancer: a role for insulin-like growth factor I and insulin-like growth
factor-binding protein 3? Breast Cancer (Dove Med Press). 2015 Jan 19;7:9-19.
doi: 10.2147/BCTT.S43932. eCollection 2015. Review. PubMed PMID: 25632238; PubMed
Central PMCID: PMC4304531.


5: Belardi V, Gallagher EJ, Novosyadlyy R, LeRoith D. Insulin and IGFs in
obesity-related breast cancer. J Mammary Gland Biol Neoplasia. 2013
Dec;18(3-4):277-89. doi: 10.1007/s10911-013-9303-7. Epub 2013 Oct 24. Review.
PubMed PMID: 24154546.


6: Cohen DH, LeRoith D. Obesity, type 2 diabetes, and cancer: the insulin and IGF
connection. Endocr Relat Cancer. 2012 Sep 5;19(5):F27-45. doi:
10.1530/ERC-11-0374. Print 2012 Oct. Review. PubMed PMID: 22593429.


7: Tsugane S, Inoue M. Insulin resistance and cancer: epidemiological evidence.
Cancer Sci. 2010 May;101(5):1073-9. doi: 10.1111/j.1349-7006.2010.01521.x. Epub
2010 Feb 3. Review. PubMed PMID: 20345478.


8: Pan SY, DesMeules M. Energy intake, physical activity, energy balance, and
cancer: epidemiologic evidence. Methods Mol Biol. 2009;472:191-215. doi:
10.1007/978-1-60327-492-0_8. Review. PubMed PMID: 19107434.


9: Fair AM, Montgomery K. Energy balance, physical activity, and cancer risk.
Methods Mol Biol. 2009;472:57-88. doi: 10.1007/978-1-60327-492-0_3. Review.
PubMed PMID: 19107429.


10: Dossus L, Kaaks R. Nutrition, metabolic factors and cancer risk. Best Pract
Res Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Aug;22(4):551-71. doi:
10.1016/j.beem.2008.08.003. Review. PubMed PMID: 18971118.


11: Park JH. Inhibition of colon cancer cell growth by dietary components: role
of the insulin-like growth factor (IGF) system. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2008;17
Suppl 1:257-60. Review. PubMed PMID: 18296350.


12: Meinbach DS, Lokeshwar BL. Insulin-like growth factors and their binding
proteins in prostate cancer: cause or consequence? Urol Oncol. 2006
Jul-Aug;24(4):294-306. Review. PubMed PMID: 16818181.


13: Durai R, Davies M, Yang W, Yang SY, Seifalian A, Goldspink G, Winslet M.
Biology of insulin-like growth factor binding protein-4 and its role in cancer
(review). Int J Oncol. 2006 Jun;28(6):1317-25. Review. PubMed PMID: 16685432.


14: Gmez JM. The role of insulin-like growth factor I components in the
regulation of vitamin D. Curr Pharm Biotechnol. 2006 Apr;7(2):125-32. Review.
PubMed PMID: 16724947.


15: Wolk A. Diet, lifestyle and risk of prostate cancer. Acta Oncol.
2005;44(3):277-81. Review. PubMed PMID: 16076700.


16: Mattson MP, Maudsley S, Martin B. A neural signaling triumvirate that
influences ageing and age-related disease: insulin/IGF-1, BDNF and serotonin.
Ageing Res Rev. 2004 Nov;3(4):445-64. Review. PubMed PMID: 15541711.


17: Strumberg D, Boeing H, Scheulen ME, Frster H, Seeber S. [Nutrition,
lifestyle and cancer: strategies for primary prevention]. Dtsch Med Wochenschr.
2004 Sep 3;129(36):1877-82. Review. German. PubMed PMID: 15368163.


18: Kaaks R. Nutrition, insulin, IGF-1 metabolism and cancer risk: a summary of
epidemiological evidence. Novartis Found Symp. 2004;262:247-60; discussion
260-68. Review. PubMed PMID: 15562834.


19: Yakar S, Pennisi P, Zhao H, Zhang Y, LeRoith D. Circulating IGF-1 and its
role in cancer: lessons from the IGF-1 gene deletion (LID) mouse. Novartis Found
Symp. 2004;262:3-9; discussion 9-18, 265-8. Review. PubMed PMID: 15562820.


20: Boyd DB. Insulin and cancer. Integr Cancer Ther. 2003 Dec;2(4):315-29.
Review. PubMed PMID: 14713323.
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