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astragalus and possible kidney delusion

Fluffy_XL

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Nov 14, 2016
Messages
108
I guess some of us are using astagalus for kidney health.

Now I'm wondering if astragalus might interfere with diagnosis of somebody's kidney function by simulating a high GFR which might be way lower without the supplement.

Afaik when stopping astragalus, GFR rates go back to their actual value, right?

I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean but let's assume a normal blood count besides higher urea (might be common among us) and obvious proteinuria which is a common first red flag I'd say.
Is it possible that in this case a doctor will underrate the situation since GFR is optimal (due to astragalus to some extent) and might just propose a decreased protein intake to check blood several weeks later instead of getting things straight and warn the patient of a very high risk / imminent danger?

I hope you guys know what I'm driving at and maybe chime in.

Cheers
 
I actually just recently ran out of Astragalus. Got bloodwork done a week after finishing a prep where I did 3 back-to-back shows and kidney function looked perfect which was kind of surprising to me.

I could probably stay off the astragalus for another month or so and get bloods done again to see if anything changes. Will update when I get this done.
 
I actually just recently ran out of Astragalus. Got bloodwork done a week after finishing a prep where I did 3 back-to-back shows and kidney function looked perfect which was kind of surprising to me.

I could probably stay off the astragalus for another month or so and get bloods done again to see if anything changes. Will update when I get this done.

Thanks man, should be very interesting.

Did you have any kidney problems yet for example by tren usage which is a common suspect which I understand by browsing several threads about the topic. How did you cope with it?

Your answer also brings up the question for me whether the GFR is actually better if the value increases due to astragalus or if it's rather sort of a cascade?
 
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[lang=de]

Thanks man, should be very interesting.

Did you have any kidney problems yet for example by tren usage which is a common suspect which I understand by browsing several threads about the topic. How did you cope with it.

Your answer also brings up the question for me whether the GFR is actually better if the value increases due to astragalus or if it's rather sort of a cascade?[/lang]

To be honest, I've never had issues with anything really apart from really low HDL. Blood pressure stays towards the lower end year round, regardless if I'm pumping crazy amounts of tren and orals pre-contest or if I'm heavier in the offseason.
 
Wish I could accompany here ...currently struggling with protein in urin which is the "only" real issue right now.
 
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I guess some of us are using astagalus for kidney health.

Now I'm wondering if astragalus might interfere with diagnosis of somebody's kidney function by simulating a high GFR which might be way lower without the supplement.

Afaik when stopping astragalus, GFR rates go back to their actual value, right?

I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean but let's assume a normal blood count besides higher urea (might be common among us) and obvious proteinuria which is a common first red flag I'd say.
Is it possible that in this case a doctor will underrate the situation since GFR is optimal (due to astragalus to some extent) and might just propose a decreased protein intake to check blood several weeks later instead of getting things straight and warn the patient of a very high risk / imminent danger?

I hope you guys know what I'm driving at and maybe chime in.

Cheers

Man i cant get over some of these threads. I have seen about 200 people now with compromised kidney function use astragalus. Ive seen I think 3 now that went into kidney failure and if i remember right their GFRS were 8, 16, and 11 before they used astragalus. You cannot come back from that....its their fault the damage they did to themselves. Ive seen guys who were at 28 GFR turn that into 35, 47, 54 and then 63 over time.....do you really think a supplement is masking an effect to raise a GFR up 37 points?! Do this.....go get blood work and get your creat to bun, your creatinine, your Cystatin C, and your GFR. Theres three things you can use to help regenerate your kidneys to some degree....Astragalus, Pycnogenol, and Grapeseed powder. Or you can worry its all one big facade and do absolutely nothing. (I know better). So you are putting the cart before the horse as it looks like up above. Do you drink alot of protein drinks? You will have protein in your urine. Did you train the previous 48 hours hard? dehydrated? then your kidney values will be elevated and there could be protein in your urine from turnover. Dont you think if Ive seen about 200 people with lower kidney values over the years and this was all a facade (Astragalus) that they would go on and eventually have to go on dialysis since its all smoke and mirrors? They didnt...they got themselves out a serious trouble. So you are worried about using a supplement that ive put so many links up about over the years, that seems to raise the kidney values of people at a rate of about 9 to 1 ratio....because you heard a couple of guys say when they got off their GFR went back down? Why dont you question whether they went back to doing the very things that drove their kidney values down in the first place? Thats the big problem. If you walk around with high blood pressure for years and use toxic steroids and think some supplement is going to save your butt but you keep on doing the toxic things that are compromising your kidneys....then who is to blame....the supplement or someones choices?
 
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Hi Dante,

thanks for chiming in and taking the time. I'm always following your posts on IG and here and try to implement them into my own lifestyle.

Please don't get me wrong I did not mean to question the purpose or effect of astragalus but really just the scenario of misinterpretation by a doctor since he or she might not be that much in the know regarding astragalus and the range of it's effect.

Let me take on a specific part of your post. Very helpful that you underlined the factors which might affect protein in somebody's urine.
Assumed someone's actually drinking 1-2 shakes a day, has many long workouts, is on the juice and generally takes in a bodybuilding suitable amount of protein ...which amount of protein in urine is still acceptable in your eyes if there was let's say no "waiting time" before drawing blood?

Or spoken generally: if we're just looking at bad proteinuria and urea values, what's your recommendation or critical values? (Not asking for some kind of charter but being curious about my condition)
 
Thats really hard for me to answer.

Heres questions i would ask yourself

Is your blood pressure normal?
Are you doing any toxic steroids?
Are you waiting 2-3 days before going in for bloodwork (not training)
are you hydrated?

if these are all positive....

I would honestly take a week off and not train......and i would get bloodwork then

and I would base decisions on that bloodwork at that time because I see that as pretty close to the true you and your health.
 
I had bloods done in January, my eGFR was 39, took 8 grams of Bulk Nutrition Astragalus and had bloods done last month and eGFR was 44. I told my kidney doctor I was taking Astragalus and he did not know what it was (go figure).
 
Kidney function tests (eGFR) doesn't work like that. You can't RATE your kidney function from your GFR. You will have a PERFECT GFR until your kindeys are fucked, then it will start going down fast. You check your GFR to make sure your kidneys aren't failing, unfortunately, the test won't tell you how well they are functioning. Kidneys are a filter, as long as they can handle the load, they will function at full capacity. The "load" most of us have our kidney's under is very low, usually 5-10%. If your kidneys are under low load, your eGFR will remain high until they are struggling with that low load, which will be extremely low kindey function.
 
Hi Dante,

thanks for chiming in and taking the time. I'm always following your posts on IG and here and try to implement them into my own lifestyle.

Please don't get me wrong I did not mean to question the purpose or effect of astragalus but really just the scenario of misinterpretation by a doctor since he or she might not be that much in the know regarding astragalus and the range of it's effect.

Let me take on a specific part of your post. Very helpful that you underlined the factors which might affect protein in somebody's urine.
Assumed someone's actually drinking 1-2 shakes a day, has many long workouts, is on the juice and generally takes in a bodybuilding suitable amount of protein ...which amount of protein in urine is still acceptable in your eyes if there was let's say no "waiting time" before drawing blood?

Or spoken generally: if we're just looking at bad proteinuria and urea values, what's your recommendation or critical values? (Not asking for some kind of charter but being curious about my condition)


As someone with far too much time spent with a nephrologist I would out far more weight into protein in the urine. If you take 3-4 days off of training you really should not have protein in your urine. I’m fact the microalbumin/creatinine ratio urine test is often though of as the test to detect kidney issues potentially YEARS before they materialize.

I aso get your point with astragalus because creatinine on its own isn’t bad. My concern is/was is astragalus lowering creatinine by a means that has nothing to do with GFR making the eGFR look better than it is.

I do not think that is the case though because Dante isn’t talking about eGFR’s going from 59 to 64 or 52 to 55. He is talking about eGFR’s I’m the 30’s going up 10’s if points. He is seeing creatinine go from 1.8+ to 1.1’s.

Looking at the studies and his antidotal evidence I think there is actual kidney function improvement. It also sounds like he has seen guys get rid of Albuminuria with it so that adds a huge layer of proof there is something to this.
 
Thanks guys, really appreciated.

Currently I'm taking 4,8g Astragalus extract (dunno if actual content is lower?) two times a day. Should I increase or where's like the maximum of benefit guesstimated?
 
I’m on a decent cycle right now of tren sus and prop
Before I started astagalus my gfr was 68 with a creatinine of 1.27

Now after being on for 4 weeks and taking astragalus and sometimes missing doses on some days my gfr climbed to 79 and creatinine 1.1
And I’m taking in a good 300 grams of protein a day

Coincidence??? Doubt it
 
Thanks guys, really appreciated.



Currently I'm taking 4,8g Astragalus extract (dunno if actual content is lower?) two times a day. Should I increase or where's like the maximum of benefit guesstimated?



What brand


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I posted my bloodwork in one of the other astragalus threads . I was using Vitamin Shoppe brand 3 grams-am and 3 grams-pm(6 grams/day) for a couple of months. My gfr went from 69 to 76
 
I must be a luck sac, a few months ago did a decent bulk 12 weeks Tren E 400 and Test C 600, d-bol 4 weeks @ 40mg

Got blood work done, my kidney values were at 116.

I'm 40.
 
I must be a luck sac, a few months ago did a decent bulk 12 weeks Tren E 400 and Test C 600, d-bol 4 weeks @ 40mg

Got blood work done, my kidney values were at 116.

I'm 40.

Again, "estimated" GFR isn't a rating, it is just basically a pass or fail test.

You could be at 116 GFR with only 10% of your kidneys still functioning but your load is only 5% so you would never know.
 
Again, "estimated" GFR isn't a rating, it is just basically a pass or fail test.

You could be at 116 GFR with only 10% of your kidneys still functioning but your load is only 5% so you would never know.

So is there another test to have done?
 

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