My Expensive CoQ10 vs Ubiquinol Experiment

[Deleted member 106824]

After reading this article Alleviating Congestive Heart Failure With Coenzyme Q10 - 2 - Life Extension back in January I decided to take CoQ10/Ubiquinol again, but my previously poor ejection fraction levels were while taking 200mg Ubiquinol so I wasn't too hopeful and wanted to see if it was even worth the cost. The CoQ10 test was expensive ($100 each) but I figured if this was a long term supplement and these tests found that this QSorb (supposedly more bioavailable than regular CoQ10) was as effective as Ubiquinol then it would save me a lot of money over the long run.

Well, that is not what I found lol so here it is.


2/6/16 (10:35am):
-No CoQ10 for 8 weeks
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 0.73 (0.37-2.20 ug/mL)

3/15/16 (11:06am):
-500mg CoQ10 (QSorb) for 5.5 weeks. Last dose the previous night.
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 1.85 (0.37-2.20 ug/mL)

-3 week washout period

5/28/16 (7:41am):
-500mg Ubiquinol (Jarrow’s) for 6.5 weeks. Last dose the previous night
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 4.96 (0.37-2.20 ug/mL)


Some flaws:
1. I used the ubiquinol for 1 extra week due to lack of ability to get to a blood draw location
2. washout period was 3 weeks and since it's fat soluble perhaps there was still some slightly raised level from the previous Qsorb usage
3. My Ubiquinol testing was about 3.5 hours before my Qsorb testing (7:41am vs 11:06am) so the last dose was slightly more recent.

However I doubt those are significant especially when looking at a roughly 2.7x higher level from the Ubiquinol.


Just thought I'd share my results in case some people were on the fence about which to choose. I will also point out though that Jarrow's Ubiquinol is actually 3.15x the cost of Puritan Pride's Qsorb so one could argue either way....though I wouldn't want to take 10-15 pills of just Qsorb per day.

They also obtained levels twice as high as mine in the link I posted above, so who knows if that's due to lack of potency of Jarrow's or just my individual response. I'll probably continue this until my next cardiac MRI in September but it's got a hefty price tag.

 

[nothuman]

Good post and thanks for sharing. Pretty much confirms Kaneka sourced Uniquinol is far superior. I'm not surprised by these results at all. What I'm curious to know if whether there is anything bad about having elevated CoQ10 levels. I'm sure mine are since I've been on 400mg for 3 years now.

 

[prostock]

Thanks for the study bro

The numbers are definately a plus and while ubliq is being on the expensive side what it does for ones heart health is priceless.. much appreciate. .pro

 

[chainheart]

i take between 250-400mg pretty much every day. i recall reading a Muscle and Fitness Japanese study that stated 300mg was all that was necessary for making the CoQ10 a bonus to your workouts and health. i laugh when i see some of the store CoQ10 products with 50mg dosages.

"found that the subjects taking 300 mg of Co-Q10 experienced less fatigue during the exercise and they recovered faster between bouts of exercise. Although this was an aerobic-exercise study, it has implications for bodybuilders. The reduced fatigue afforded by the CoQ10 supplement suggests that adding CoQ10 to your supplement regimen can help you get more reps on higher rep sets, especially late in your workout."

"Australian researchers discovered that subjects taking 300 mg of CoQ10 for 4 weeks experienced an increase in the amount of fast-twitch muscle fibers without even training."

"You may want to make sure those meals include a cup of grapefruit juice. Japanese scientists discovered that uptake of CoQ10 is enhanced when taken with grapefruit juice, which acts on a certain protein in the digestive tract to allow for a higher absorption of CoQ10."

Articles : Jim Stoppani, Ph.D.

 

[11111]

I really like what you did here

 

[G.I.Bro]

After reading this article Alleviating Congestive Heart Failure With Coenzyme Q10 - 2 - Life Extension back in January I decided to take CoQ10/Ubiquinol again, but my previously poor ejection fraction levels were while taking 200mg Ubiquinol so I wasn't too hopeful and wanted to see if it was even worth the cost. The CoQ10 test was expensive ($100 each) but I figured if this was a long term supplement and these tests found that this QSorb (supposedly more bioavailable than regular CoQ10) was as effective as Ubiquinol then it would save me a lot of money over the long run.

Well, that is not what I found lol so here it is.


2/6/16 (10:35am):
-No CoQ10 for 8 weeks
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 0.73(0.37-2.20 ug/mL)

3/15/16 (11:06am):
-500mg CoQ10 (QSorb) for 5.5 weeks. Last dose the previous night.
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 1.85(0.37-2.20 ug/mL)

-3 week washout period

5/28/16 (7:41am):
-500mg Ubiquinol (Jarrow’s) for 6.5 weeks. Last dose the previous night
Coenzyme Q10, Total: 4.96(0.37-2.20 ug/mL)


Some flaws:
1. I used the ubiquinol for 1 extra week due to lack of ability to get to a blood draw location
2. washout period was 3 weeks and since it's fat soluble perhaps there was still some slightly raised level from the previous Qsorb usage
3. My Ubiquinol testing was about 3.5 hours before my Qsorb testing (7:41am vs 11:06am) so the last dose was slightly more recent.

However I doubt those are significant especially when looking at a roughly 2.7x higher level from the Ubiquinol.


Just thought I'd share my results in case some people were on the fence about which to choose. I will also point out though that Jarrow's Ubiquinol is actually 3.15x the cost of Puritan Pride's Qsorb so one could argue either way....though I wouldn't want to take 10-15 pills of just Qsorb per day.

They also obtained levels twice as high as mine in the link I posted above, so who knows if that's due to lack of potency of Jarrow's or just my individual response. I'll probably continue this until my next cardiac MRI in September but it's got a hefty price tag.

Very nice contribution. Smart approach to trying to keep results accurate too. Thank you.

 

[nothuman]

i take between 250-400mg pretty much every day. i recall reading a Muscle and Fitness Japanese study that stated 300mg was all that was necessary for making the CoQ10 a bonus to your workouts and health. i laugh when i see some of the store CoQ10 products with 50mg dosages.

"found that the subjects taking 300 mg of Co-Q10 experienced less fatigue during the exercise and they recovered faster between bouts of exercise. Although this was an aerobic-exercise study, it has implications for bodybuilders. The reduced fatigue afforded by the CoQ10 supplement suggests that adding CoQ10 to your supplement regimen can help you get more reps on higher rep sets, especially late in your workout."

"Australian researchers discovered that subjects taking 300 mg of CoQ10 for 4 weeks experienced an increase in the amount of fast-twitch muscle fibers without even training."

"You may want to make sure those meals include a cup of grapefruit juice. Japanese scientists discovered that uptake of CoQ10 is enhanced when taken with grapefruit juice, which acts on a certain protein in the digestive tract to allow for a higher absorption of CoQ10."

Articles : Jim Stoppani, Ph.D.

Is it me or does it seem like grapefruit juice enhances the absorption of pretty much everything? I really should start drinking some with all the pills I take orally.

 

[Stewie]

Is it me or does it seem like grapefruit juice enhances the absorption of pretty much everything? I really should start drinking some with all the pills I take orally.

A vast majority of drugs are metabolized by different subtypes of isoenzymes. More specifically, CYP3A4 and CYP2D6. There is a wide array of isoenzymes other than these two isoenzymes that form bonds to aid in a drugs metabolism. That becomes very complicated very quickly when there's a polypharmacy of drugs and or foods- supplements are combined together.

On a different note, drugs are also up-taking and transported by several other proteins. To stay on topic of the interactions of grapefruit juice and it's inhibitory activity. There's a transport mechanism called P-glycoprotein. Grapefruit juice inhibits P-glycoprotein ability to aid in the cassette transport of a particular drug or supplement in this case. Given that there are two means of inhibition by GFJ, CYP3A4 and not mentioned previously, CYP2D9 along with P-glycoproteins. This would allow the drug too stay more active in circulation.

To give you an example of my prior argument with Mike Arnold on something he's completely unaware of on the interactions of burp/berb/GFJ. Grapefruit juice inhibits P-glycoprotein, which then can cause a channel blockage of the main metabolite of buprenorphine, norbuprenorphine. If there's enough of a blockade, this can very well lead to respiratory distress. As there's no ceiling effect of norbuprenorphine.


Something to keep in mind: a molecule is a molecule regardless if it came from nature or Eli Lilly.

 

[dragonfire101]

I still prefer idebonone over the above 2 if only picking one but understand they all work a little different pathways and each have their own thing their better at although similar compounds.

 

[Stewie]

Hope you are doing well, Pumped!
Very impressive, thanks for doing this!

 

[Deleted member 106824]

As Stewie touched on, there are reasons grapefruit juice could cause a negative interaction/effect as well.

I would take it with my CoQ10 separately perhaps, but with the number of pills/medications I take daily I wouldn't want increased levels of everything so I would have to look up which were metabolized by various Cyps

Hope you are doing well, Pumped!
Very impressive, thanks for doing this!

Thanks man. I feel pretty good....Gym progress is mostly stalled now that I'm just on ~100mg of TRT but that's OK as long as I stay healthy I suppose. I feel like there is daily temptation to take some form of PED but I know it would be very foolish at this point and I'd hate myself if something happened because of it.

Luckily I'm not in much pain and rarely get chest pressure/pain now, though I do here and there. Next MRI is in September...a little scared to see it but at the same time knowing that I have that test coming up is keeping me in check a bit more.

 

[Zarati]

Great thread

I could not find any find any information regarding elevated CoQ10 numbers, but to be on the safe side, you could cut your dose to 200 - 300mg to be at the top of the range.

 

[nothuman]

As Stewie touched on, there are reasons grapefruit juice could cause a negative interaction/effect as well.



I would take it with my CoQ10 separately perhaps, but with the number of pills/medications I take daily I wouldn't want increased levels of everything so I would have to look up which were metabolized by various Cyps







Thanks man. I feel pretty good....Gym progress is mostly stalled now that I'm just on ~100mg of TRT but that's OK as long as I stay healthy I suppose. I feel like there is daily temptation to take some form of PED but I know it would be very foolish at this point and I'd hate myself if something happened because of it.



Luckily I'm not in much pain and rarely get chest pressure/pain now, though I do here and there. Next MRI is in September...a little scared to see it but at the same time knowing that I have that test coming up is keeping me in check a bit more.

Great to hear your chest pain isn't as frequent. I still think it could be anxiety related.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Great thread

I could not find any find any information regarding elevated CoQ10 numbers, but to be on the safe side, you could cut your dose to 200 - 300mg to be at the top of the range.

I could, yes, but if you look at the link I posted in the original post they stated that patient with heart failure was at the top of the range (2.2) while taking 450mg of CoQ10 and that is when he still had a low ejection fraction. It was not until he took 450mg of Ubiquinol and had levels at 8+ that his ejection fraction went to 60%.

Now this article was by LifeExtension, which sells supplements, so take that with a grain of salt, but unless someone can show me real world examples of issues from this level of Ubiquinol I think I will at least continue 500mg/day until my next MRI and go from there.

Great to hear your chest pain isn't as frequent. I still think it could be anxiety related.

I'm sure that's at least part of it

 

[maldorf]

My EF has slowly been going up the past 6 years. The first 2 years after my heart attack it was going nowhere while taking CO Q10. Then I started taking Ubquinol and Humanofort and EF has gone up from below 20% to between 25%-30%. So I am up probably 5-10%. I take 400 mg/day Ubquinol. 200 mg in morning and 200 at bed.

 

[GreenEarth]

As someone who has been taking Ubiquinol at 200mg/day for the past year, I can say that I am very happy to see I haven't been throwing my money away opting for ubiquinol over CoQ10 Thanks a lot of doing this study, much appreciated.

 

[jcc80]

Where are you guys finding the best deals on ubiquinol? I know it's probably something I need to get back on, regardless of price tag though.

 

[OutToLunch]

Where are you guys finding the best deals on ubiquinol? I know it's probably something I need to get back on, regardless of price tag though.

Amazon

 

[the_warrior]

A vast majority of drugs are metabolized by different subtypes of isoenzymes. More specifically, CYP3A4 and CYP2D6. There is a wide array of isoenzymes other than these two isoenzymes that form bonds to aid in a drugs metabolism. That becomes very complicated very quickly when there's a polypharmacy of drugs and or foods- supplements are combined together.



On a different note, drugs are also up-taking and transported by several other proteins. To stay on topic of the interactions of grapefruit juice and it's inhibitory activity. There's a transport mechanism called P-glycoprotein. Grapefruit juice inhibits P-glycoprotein ability to aid in the cassette transport of a particular drug or supplement in this case. Given that there are two means of inhibition by GFJ, CYP3A4 and not mentioned previously, CYP2D9 along with P-glycoproteins. This would allow the drug too stay more active in circulation.



To give you an example of my prior argument with Mike Arnold on something he's completely unaware of on the interactions of burp/berb/GFJ. Grapefruit juice inhibits P-glycoprotein, which then can cause a channel blockage of the main metabolite of buprenorphine, norbuprenorphine. If there's enough of a blockade, this can very well lead to respiratory distress. As there's no ceiling effect of norbuprenorphine.





Something to keep in mind: a molecule is a molecule regardless if it came from nature or Eli Lilly.

Everyone is tired of your puerile feud with Mike Arnold - it was completely unnecessary to reference here. Knock it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[buck]

Pretty much ever study I have seen for years shows Ubiquinol is better absorbed the COQ10. So dose for dose it is much better. Cost wise it may be better for some to go with the COQ10.