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Has bodybuilding really advanced in the last 20 yrs ?

B - trot .......losing strength on the core movements happens when you lose weight . You have less leverage and water to work with .....unless you have naturally super strong tendons , then this happens .........the thing when getting lean you should be getting better work outs the leaner you get....the less fat in and around the muscle the better feel you will have in your muscles , you also get much better pumps because their is less fat to lessen blood flow ......
 
Great topic, Excellent post!

, kept my food the same pretty much.

Lee Priest
"peak week"

" if you look full, hard, vascular and dry a week out why change anything just drop your water a little the day before" hmmm makes sense right


.............except that lee priest NEVER showed up on stage FULL HARD VASULCAR AND DRY!!!!! hahaha

I've yet to see a pic of lee priest's Back or Lower-Body that was "lean/dry/hard".

Dorian saying the same thing? sure, absolutely... which he has said nearly the exact same thing, yea.. but Lee? Nope.

Plus, I never got along with Lee... Mouthly little prick. Smile to my/anybody face and talk about them behind their back/milking the "little man bodybuilder" thing for all it's worth.. dude ain't that fucken short. haha
 
Power forward, that is a great looking routine , but you are a smart guy so I would expect nothing less .......writing a full workout cuz of all my different routines would be a lot ......I will post up my workouts hear and there and you can ask questions as I do if you wish .....much love ....

Diet ....[ first , I want to correct a typo a while back ] I meant to say it had been a very long time since I have been in the 260s in any kind of shape ......most of my drug free life has been in the 240s and 250s , The 260s have only come since adding hrt 6 months ago ....I believe it has giving me about 10lbs of water and muscle .....I was 266 fri , but like I said I had wendys .ha ha...which is too big with out gh , but right now ,I don't care , just having fun and letting this flow . When I go public once my project ever launches .....I will have you tube channel first ......So clearly I will pretty up and try and represent you guys well of course ......I am longer putting out time lines ....just letting things evolve , grow , and flow .

Diet .....has been fun to play with this last two yrs ...I have done lots of intermittent fasting ....and fasting ....I ate every other day for a while .....even did some 3 day fasts and was working up to 10 days or more .....I saw all the hype for health and longevity , was inspired here by NY Muscle [ someone I respect greatly ] ......and I wanted to push some things I carry in myself .....food addition and wanted to surrender my comfort level spiritually .......I did some blood work ....ate keto when I ate .....and did some carb ups maybe every 2 weeks ....But instead of feeling better , I felt worse .....felt like metabolism slowed , I was losing some muscle ......workouts weren't great .....I checked sodium made sure it was high ect.......and it got old not being to eat with my girl and friends at certain times especially with my work hrs ........when I saw blood work it was all similar , but noticed some stress to my liver [ not on anything for 20 yrs at this point] and started researching the tops guys in longevity ......the ones that have no agenda to sale ......say at best calorie restriction and fasting may give you 2-3 yrs of extra life ......they say that to them this isn't key to healthy longevity but they are getting closer to cracking the code .....I was amazed at the gimmicks ....books , products that actual talented drs put out based on half truth or not relevant studies to healthy people in order to create careers and get attention .....but shit ....no different than all of the other bs in the bbing world .......the supplement company's have always done this .

So once I accessed things ....I said what feels right ? And It came up to what Phil and tenny have always pounded into you guys . Eat when hungry .....I eat higher fat and low carbs .....if I am on point like I should be , I eat only quality protein and lots veggies , with good fats added or eaten .and carb load a meal or cheat once every 1-2 weeks ....if I am not, I eat shit a few days a week and eat the same way ,except a protein shake and some instant oatmeal after I train [ that always feels like I earned those carbs] .......that's honest ....because I have gained some muscle my hunger is up , which is a sign training and rest are going well ......I think I will probably ride the half assed approach till this training cycle is over , when I start the new one I will be stricter and more intelligent .......meals are usually 2 -5 times a day now .....4 being avg ....when I am doing it right and growing that can be build to 6-8 quite quickly ........

Protein and fats are essential ......carbs only matter with gh /insulin in the mix .....for most focus on these nutrients and you are smart .....if you are naturally lean , then you can have carbs kind of use a zone type diet to grow best .....but for most ......higher fat and quality protein is where you should focus .....carbs get earned the leaner you get , that is honest easy .....unless you are really lean or on gh/insulin there is no need for carbs .....do I think carbs should be used if you are lean ....for sure , I think you will look better if you do and probably be healthier ......[ I love how they talk about paleo ect....but we evolved , we have been brought up and conditioned to eat carbs as a species ......so we are no longer cave men and haven't been for 10000 yrs ] But carbs aren't essential ....you need to create and environment to use them correctly imo .....

I could go on and on about diets forever , I laugh at a the bs out there ......gironda was so ahead of the game it was silly .....if you are looking to get big I can suggest what I will probably do next session on a smaller scale to put on mass if you want ....just let me know ........much love guys
 
Oh Pusher ....lol.....I love your posts .....Lee did too much cardio and cheated too much to get crazy pealed ......- 2-3 hrs of cardio means you aren't dieting hard enough cals .....your body adapts to cardio very fast .....I like people to vary it a lot in a prep and to never get into doing high amounts .....the stress on the body doing that much cardio and training twice a day like he did when he prepped was not smart ....he could have been bigger and harder ....done less .....cut back on all that rice he ate , rest more he would have been much better .................
 
Iabadman, thanks again for sharing your throughts.

I don't know why there are still guys out there touting their views on what the "secret" is (great way to make money nowadays in the industry); when it's been proven time and time again that progression is the key. Progressive training, progressive eating and progressive drug use. It's kinda cool to hear this be confirmed by an older veteran like you whose been through the grinder. And something Dante preached over and over again, turning average bodybuilders into behemoths over and over again.

What are your thoughts on protein intake? When pushing bodyweight up in a blast, how much would you increase it compared to previous intake. I usually shoot for 1.5 grams per pound of bw, a little over and under depending on days and how many carbs I've had.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 
thinker ] great name btw ....fyi my name was a total joke many yrs ago ...a gf friend was helping set an account and we reading all the funny names ....Mr gunz, pussy magnet ....it was funny ......she said ,"you are such a Bad man " very sarcastically ...lol ..".why not just say so ?" I said fine and went with that thinking fully that I would change it ....She was like ,"you do realize how much of tool you look like with that stupid name ?" But then I ran into dante on line calling himself Doggcrap and I just figured people would know it was meant tongue and cheek .......My name is Jason .......plz any of you just call me that .....I promise am not that freaking lame ,,,,,,ha ha


As far as protein intake , depends on gear and dosage in my mind ....gear allows a greater turn over and you would be missing out if you weren't increasing protein as you increased your gear intake ......I think most natty guys should start at .7 per lb of body wt and increase to around a gram per lb and the rest fat .....enhanced should start at 1.25 grams per lb of body wt and during certain training periods can be pushed as high as 2 grams per lb of body weight ....but doesn't need to be ran all the time that high imo and most likely isn't healthy . protein should be cycled like anything else my friend ......we can play with examples .....but everyone should do some fasting and detoxs a few times a year , as bber pushing food it is only smart to push things , then pull back .......then push harder and pull back ......it makes total sense to me and is weird that most gurus or diet experts don't see this or understand this when training athletes ......

Thinker ......if you have been training awhile and are on gear then 1.5 is good , but not needed all the time , and a lot would be wasted if you aren't on gear and not building hunger .......Tennys one shit a day credo [ btw tenny rules congrats on member of month ....long time coming bro] ....But if you are young and building metabolism then you are going to shit more and waste some food on the way ......but train right , recover properly , and use gear .....you push / pull food intelligently then your body will learn to use that food you are pushing when trying to really grow .....this a slow dance of push pull ......not pound a 2 grams of protein and eat 8000 kals a day and look and feel like shit my friends ........remember the tortoise gets the hare every day in this art
 
Hey what did you guys think of the tampa pro last night ? Love for you guys to put up pictures or share your thoughts here ?
 
I really liked top 10 guys alot ...lots of great bodies .....very impressed ....conditioning not great .....but with what these guys have to take to be so big its probably not going to be for many ( lots of water issues to contend with).....i thought some of the guys over do the oil in the arms and delts ( especially in biceps ....but makes jealous i never did mine way back when...lol) very impressed overall .....212...winner has some nice potential and like i said he was the only guy that grabbed me from the usa ...i think jon delorosa should come down to 212s ....he is built like this do and have similar condition issues
 
I could go on and on about diets forever , I laugh at a the bs out there ......gironda was so ahead of the game it was silly .....if you are looking to get big I can suggest what I will probably do next session on a smaller scale to put on mass if you want ....just let me know ........much love guys

Jason, I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the above..
 
11111.......cool we will go into that later for you for sure

Just finished upper body .....weighed 266 .....did a couple sets of push ups and lat pulldowns to warm up along with some various arm circles .....

Started with thumbs up laterals ......25 ...20 ..15 ......then 2 sets of bent over laterals ....did 15 hard reps ....then a trip drop a hold and then burns at end ......then stretched delts hard

Chest did a couple warm up of a few reps ....felt ready decline presses .....22 , 13 , 7 ......then did one super set of pec pullovers with pec dips ......then stretched pecs ....

transition was db cross bench pullovers ....20 , 15 , 12

Then did narrow grip chins got 13 , 11 , 8 [ last set I do a couple negs where I jump up and resist down as slow as possible ...and then do partials with arm straight and just pull with my scapula .....then I stretched lats

then did t bar row , first set , did 1 and halfs reps ......was tough for 15 , then straight sets , 12 , 9

stretched and spread back a bit ....was pumped as shit

Then did traps ......3 sets shrugs first 2 did 10 sec holds on last reps ...did 15, and 12 ......did a triple drop on last ....

then hit biceps .....2 sets of biceps spider curls ...first set did 28s [ my invention ....7 top partials , 7 full reps , 7 bottoms partials , 7 full reps .....static hold at bottom ......then did a 12 + 6 +4 rest pause set ...then did one set of concentration curls ...straight set to failure ..then stretched

Triceps were dips super setted with push downs to failure ....2 sets did some partial lock outs and a static hold on each ......then stretched

forearms did on low cable ...2 tri sets ...reverse wrist curls , reverse curls , and wrist curls ....stretched ..

then 3 sets of neck with plate on my forehead and head hanging off bench ...25 , 22 , 21

Done in 53 min ......so no freaking around .....in and out .....was super pumped ....if was a beast like in my youth I would have to reduce volume a bit .....for example declines ....were 315 for 22 , 365 for 13 , and 405 for 7 .......nothing close to old days but those wts killed me .....and 6 months ago my shoulder was so bad 135 wasn't easy .......so I feel great for an old dude ...
 
11111.......cool we will go into that later for you for sure

Just finished upper body .....weighed 266 .....did a couple sets of push ups and lat pulldowns to warm up along with some various arm circles .....

Started with thumbs up laterals ......25 ...20 ..15 ......then 2 sets of bent over laterals ....did 15 hard reps ....then a trip drop a hold and then burns at end ......then stretched delts hard

Chest did a couple warm up of a few reps ....felt ready decline presses .....22 , 13 , 7 ......then did one super set of pec pullovers with pec dips ......then stretched pecs ....

transition was db cross bench pullovers ....20 , 15 , 12

Then did narrow grip chins got 13 , 11 , 8 [ last set I do a couple negs where I jump up and resist down as slow as possible ...and then do partials with arm straight and just pull with my scapula .....then I stretched lats

then did t bar row , first set , did 1 and halfs reps ......was tough for 15 , then straight sets , 12 , 9

stretched and spread back a bit ....was pumped as shit

Then did traps ......3 sets shrugs first 2 did 10 sec holds on last reps ...did 15, and 12 ......did a triple drop on last ....

then hit biceps .....2 sets of biceps spider curls ...first set did 28s [ my invention ....7 top partials , 7 full reps , 7 bottoms partials , 7 full reps .....static hold at bottom ......then did a 12 + 6 +4 rest pause set ...then did one set of concentration curls ...straight set to failure ..then stretched

Triceps were dips super setted with push downs to failure ....2 sets did some partial lock outs and a static hold on each ......then stretched

forearms did on low cable ...2 tri sets ...reverse wrist curls , reverse curls , and wrist curls ....stretched ..

then 3 sets of neck with plate on my forehead and head hanging off bench ...25 , 22 , 21

Done in 53 min ......so no freaking around .....in and out .....was super pumped ....if was a beast like in my youth I would have to reduce volume a bit .....for example declines ....were 315 for 22 , 365 for 13 , and 405 for 7 .......nothing close to old days but those wts killed me .....and 6 months ago my shoulder was so bad 135 wasn't easy .......so I feel great for an old dude ...

Awesome. Im heading to gym in about an hour and will try this workout. My weights wont quite by the same. You are still a beast but will post up when im done. Thanks for posting this and will dive in to the diets stuff this afternoon. Awesome stuff j
 
Ok just returned from leg 265.3 ......5 min bike ....walking lunges ....some various leg swings

Hit calfs with a john meadows fav ....super setted tibialus raises on a leg curl machine with standing calf raises .....did standing first ....1 set straight set around 25 reps and then did about 20 on the tibia raises right after .

Next set I did 2 up 1 downs on the standing calf raises [ you go up on two and down fighting the neg one leg ....be careful with these ] did about 12 each leg and it hurt 24 reps ....then about 18 on the tibia raises

finshed with one set of ascending and descending reps for a brutal 100 reps ...last rep I help in stretch position for as long as possible as my stretch then did some burns then ran over and did 15 straight reps on the tibia raises ...

Next abductor machine because I had done the adductors last time ...did 3 sets of 25 , 20 , 15

The hit hammer upper /lower ab machine sets of 15 -20 reps

Then did 2 sets of cable knees raises for my hips flexors 25 , and 2o reps

Leg curls 2 warm -up sets ....then I did a set of 28 s [ top part first } then a 2 up one down of 9 each leg [ very tough ...rory taught me these ] , and finished with a rest pause of 7 +5+3 and hold plus burns at end

stretched hams hard for close to 90sec ...

Then I hit leg extensions
1 set of 30 one leg at a time .....then very hard ascending /descending set of 100 reps [ freaking hurt ....hit a couple forced negs and hold on last one ....I was dying ] note ...pre-exhaust is not the best mass builder because it limits the heavy weights on your core movements ....but for me at this stage ....with a horrible left knee this is the only way I can do it .

Then I did hacks [ I do these with gironda style ....heals together at the very bottom of the platform toes out at 45 degree angles ....this limits weight ...sticking your legs way out in front of you....but these are way my quads ...I go all the way down til my heals raise up at the bottom , I am sure they have a you tube vid or a picture on line if curious ]

I did a couple warm ups ....then hit 21 to failure .....then did a rest paused 10+6+4 and then 20 squeezes at the top .......last set .....I did a set of my 28s to finish hard

stretched quads

Hit good mornings for sets 15 , 11 , 9

Then hips thrusts .......20 , 15 , 12


Knee was still bugging from last workout ......but still very tough workout ...
 
Like I said ......Before if the thread turns into just me blogging , I will just kill this thread .....I didn't really want this to turn into all about me or what I do .....lol.....not really where I am these days [ if we let this die .....I will still post in other places of course if I get interested in something ] And I will be updating here and there because my routine is fun for me these days ...and I think it will steer some of the young guys towards the right way

Diet example ......lets say I want to get more serious ....but still on just HRT.....and I say ," Jason you are too fat , lets do this right and get bigger while we get in better condition " then I would do something like this and repeat and rinse as many times as it suited me


Remember ,my training cycles are in 3 week sections a total of 11 -12 weeks long ........For me , those first three weeks , I am building my appetite , teaching my body to use the extra protein , and by week 3 I am getting close to overtraining ......first 3 weeks ....I am at 1.25 grams of body wt with protein and I am at 5 meals
By then next three weeks , I am going to bump protein to 1.5 per lb and have 6 meals ......then reduced frequency I training and more rest days ....allows the extra food to do its work and I seem to counter falling into an over trained state .....By the last 3 weeks ....I increase again to 1.75 and 7 meals while reducing the frequency and maybe even some of the volume as well ........at this point I am at my biggest and strongest but I am tired and sick of eating all the time and body needs to clean out .....week 10 I take 5-7 days off of training and I detox with little to no protein and some fasting ......this cleans out the bowels , reduces the stress of eating like a bber ....and is a mental break .....on week 11 I am eating a gram of protein per lb and about 85 %of the calories I finished the training cycle with and I am eating more carbs ....[ yes , you are going to dump some of the weight you gain ....but it will be poop and water not real weight .....lol ] I figure on a young guy you can gain 10 to 15 lbs on each cycle if on gear and maybe 4 to 6 if not .....Half of witch should be real muscle ......so if you figure 4 training cycles a year .....you gain over 20 lbs a year of muscle doing this and stay healthy as well .......as a natty you can gain 6-8 lbs a year and progress well ...if you play with insulin and gh you could even do better .

I know this is an advanced board ....but lets say you are Joe average 5 10 175 ....and done some training .....You would probably need about 65 lbs to be a national level guy and I am talking about just mass and lean mass here ....training smart ....and doing the gear right and eating progressively while getting very strong in the gym ....in 3-5 years any guy can have a lot of mass [ them looking good in their underware is up the genes ] You figure a 175 guy at that ht has to eat their way to around 280 -290 and hold it for a while to have a shot at 240 on stage ......so am I saying nearly anyone of average genetics can gain over 100 lbs of mass in 3 to 5 yrs ?[ not muscle ] Absolutely , I am see and helped ad few guys , I got close to it and I wasn't on point as much as I could have been ...diet down after you have the mass instead of hitting show after show ....spending all that time and money to get a little trophy that doesn't matter .....you train to look a certain way for yourself , focus on the journey of that and enjoy it along the way ....too many guys think muscle or on stage will some how get them more love or more value but sorry none of that is real...
 
Ok just returned from leg 265.3 ......5 min bike ....walking lunges ....some various leg swings

Hit calfs with a john meadows fav ....super setted tibialus raises on a leg curl machine with standing calf raises .....did standing first ....1 set straight set around 25 reps and then did about 20 on the tibia raises right after .

Next set I did 2 up 1 downs on the standing calf raises [ you go up on two and down fighting the neg one leg ....be careful with these ] did about 12 each leg and it hurt 24 reps ....then about 18 on the tibia raises

finshed with one set of ascending and descending reps for a brutal 100 reps ...last rep I help in stretch position for as long as possible as my stretch then did some burns then ran over and did 15 straight reps on the tibia raises ...

Next abductor machine because I had done the adductors last time ...did 3 sets of 25 , 20 , 15

The hit hammer upper /lower ab machine sets of 15 -20 reps

Then did 2 sets of cable knees raises for my hips flexors 25 , and 2o reps

Leg curls 2 warm -up sets ....then I did a set of 28 s [ top part first } then a 2 up one down of 9 each leg [ very tough ...rory taught me these ] , and finished with a rest pause of 7 +5+3 and hold plus burns at end

stretched hams hard for close to 90sec ...

Then I hit leg extensions
1 set of 30 one leg at a time .....then very hard ascending /descending set of 100 reps [ freaking hurt ....hit a couple forced negs and hold on last one ....I was dying ] note ...pre-exhaust is not the best mass builder because it limits the heavy weights on your core movements ....but for me at this stage ....with a horrible left knee this is the only way I can do it .

Then I did hacks [ I do these with gironda style ....heals together at the very bottom of the platform toes out at 45 degree angles ....this limits weight ...sticking your legs way out in front of you....but these are way my quads ...I go all the way down til my heals raise up at the bottom , I am sure they have a you tube vid or a picture on line if curious ]

I did a couple warm ups ....then hit 21 to failure .....then did a rest paused 10+6+4 and then 20 squeezes at the top .......last set .....I did a set of my 28s to finish hard

stretched quads

Hit good mornings for sets 15 , 11 , 9

Then hips thrusts .......20 , 15 , 12


Knee was still bugging from last workout ......but still very tough workout ...

thx for infos, happy to see you on PM.
About Tampa, Josh is impressive. Quality and roundness, gut is great. Contender for TOP 10 Olympia
 
And obviously ...the longer you have trained ...and the more gear you have taken over time .....the less a training routine really matters , let alone how you eat unless prepping for a show .....that's why all the guys minus a few do the same 12 to 20 moderately intense sets and hit everything once a week .....[ imo a guy like dusty is training too hard .....he doesn't need to , he earned all the mass he carries ....all he is doing is putting wear and tear on his body at this point ..I pay every day for going to hard and I still train harder than I should , but I keep weights in my limits and exhaust myself instead of push to the limit ..dorian went hard too long ...so did Ronnie and the body starts to break .......earn your mass .....push it ...hit the genetic limit and scale down and ride t out ....have fun with training ,eating , and life in general ] But to be all hardcore and serious , risk health , and injury to maybe improve a slight amount unless you are one of the best in the world then that is probably something to think about .......]

You young cats ....do it right ....build it slow and steady ....then see if you have something to show once the mass is there ....if not , be smart enjoy training , be healthy , but don't make it your life ...especially with the drugs ....crazy guys my age or even in their 30s still thinking they are going to make massive changes after yrs of training ....that is naïve and foolish .....Believe me , Dante has always has said this .......if you have it you see it in the first 2 years on gear ......you pretty much pick up all your size then ......Ronnie is the exception ....but then again he was Ronnie .......but he started clean ....was like me around 220 and he is shorter .....then started gear was doing early pro shows 230 ish......then 95 or 96 he hit gh and was 260 ....the won his first ) in great condition at 247 I think ......think the next year went in little fuller in the high 250s but not quite as ripped ....then he said lets push it ..I am king ...pushed the insulin ..and gh ....and ended up at 300 but imo destroyed his body in doing so ....I think if he had a 275 pealed look that would have been even more insane ........anyway ....the point is you get about 10 yrs on gear before you go backwards ......I have always said this ......Ronnie didn't get that much ...either did Dorian cuz they went hard ......Jay didn't get 10 good years either ......And those guys are the freaks of freaks .....all I am saying is be real ....train and eat progressively ...add gear ...and go slow .....if you don't blow up except it and enjoy training ....but don't be running grams or be a crazy man about your diet ....stop trying to be perfect ....just embrace being you ....that is awesome enough how ever that looks ........you can't turn and apple into an orange ......you cant turn joe blow into Ronnie .......

I like being big and strong ....but it started out of wanting to protect myself as a child [ because I had been raped , molested , and had been stabbed in my eye ] I didn't want people to hurt like I did so I wanted to protect them and myself ....It wasn't healthy or good . And for along time I hated that I needed a suit of armor to walk around in .......but now as an old guy that sees the truth I just and grateful the iron was there for me ....I have fun with it , it isn't serious and I don't want anything from it ......I could careless if people think I m big that's retarded anyway ....lol ....I just grew up training and the weights have always been there even when I put them down for months at a time......I enjoy them and when I dont' or get hurt I do something else ......it isn't serious and shouldn't be , your body is not who you are my friends ......it is just a house for your soul .......remember that
 
prodaf ...cool avatar ...I agree about Josh ....he is going for it ....hope he stays healthy ... all the best to you
 
Thanks for posting that, Jason... much appreciated..

I like what you've said about putting on the majority (your base) of your muscle mass in the first 2-3 years or so with diligent diet, hard training, reasonable drug use, being progressive with everything..

Also, a while back in the "life support" thread, you had posted a complete write-up on how you would do things if starting over from the beginning in regards to training, cardio, diet, supps, drugs, and overall lifestyle, and it truly was a gem of a post (so thank you for that).. I'll have to dig that up and post it here if that's cool, as I think a lot of the younger guys would really benefit from that info..

One of the things that you wrote about, that I have to admit I was skeptical about was structural adaption training for the shoulder girdle/shoulder-lat width/ ribcage, etc.... by doing things like super wide chins/wide chin hangs for time, reeves deadlifts, db stretch pullovers, etc....

I figured that for somebody after their teens who was fully developed, they wouldn't have much benefit, but I'm starting to think I was wrong about that.

For about the last 6 weeks, I've been very consistent with that 20 minute "structural adaption" routine 3 times a week, and although I haven't been doing it that long, I'm pretty pleased with the improvement in shoulder/lat width/look, as well as a new look my serratus has started to take on. Dante talked about only doing the pullovers if your lats attach/insert very low (which mine do), and I have to say he was right about that, it's starting to improve..

I remember seeing Dante post an old picture from when he was like 20 or 21 or so and he was super narrow, and then seeing pictures of him later on in the high 280's, it's crazy how wide he's gotten and he said he attributed a lot of that to the super wide grip hanging from chinning bar with heavy weight. after every back workout. It was like he totally mutated his width..

Dante has talked about this a lot in the past and wrote about it in his newsletter back in the day and Greg Zulak wrote an article on this topic for Ironman a while back too.

I haven't been doing it consistently for all that long thus far, but am going to keep it going for the next 6 months rest of the year with a very Spartan-like approach to training/diet/lifestyle and we'll see where it takes me..

Jason, do you have any further thoughts/ideas on this?

I've been doing:

-super wide grip chins strapped in (so wide that it really pulls/yanks the crap out of the areas where my lats insert) for max reps, then partials, basically just going until I can't even move a an inch or so out of the bottom

-super wide grip hang from chinning bar with a 100lb dumbbell for max time, slightly leaning back and again really pulling hard on that lat insertion area

-Reeves Deadlifts (absolute widest possible grip I can with the plates that have holes in them, strapped in. pulling like crazy on the clavicles/shoulder girdle, holding for 2-3 minutes

-DC doorknob stretch- pulling hard as hell for 90 seconds each side

-dumbbell pullover, 15 reps, holding a 10-15 second stretch in the bottom, holding breath at bottom, and really getting a nice stretch in the serratus/ribcage area..


This is done 2-3 times a week in addition to my regular training (I have a small gym in my garage and work from home so I can do this anytime without having to drive to the gym, so it's convenient).

Damn, this post was longer than I was expecting lol, but would love to get your general thoughts on this or if you think I can improve it, etc..... thanks..
 
Last edited:
Dante's piece on this topic from his old Hardcore Muscle Newsletter

By: Dante

Structural Adaption: I have pondered back and forth whether to write this article because it surely will bring me lots of grief from disbelievers. Let me state some guidelines first- The following is true, I swear by it, Iâ??ve seen it happen, Iâ??ve taken about 8 people through these steps including myself- It works.

If you think it is bunk, that it is dangerous/unhealthy, or it just canâ??t be done because it doesnâ??t sound right to youâ??donâ??t bother to write me about itâ??Iâ??ve seen it happen and you canâ??t change my mind. It is very hard to describe on paper- I have only brought people through it in person. So try at your own risk. ---Stretching out the frame and structure- can it be done? Parillo thinks it can to some degree.

Many have cited football players who were small framed in high school and bulked up in bodyweight. When they came back down to normal size standards, the frame (shoulder girdle, ribcage etc) are so much larger. The body will adapt to a larger bodyweight. I have never seen someone who started to do weighted chins continuously thru the years, not get a dramatic widening of the shoulder girdle. I ask you what is the most broken structures among high school football players? Collarbone, ribcage, sternum.

This is all pliable tissue when you are young and will spread out and grow if you work it while you are still young (past 30 is about impossible). There are three main areas I can stretch. You guys would freak if I showed you some before and after shots of hard structure stretches over time. I can get the shoulders out somewhat, the ribcage too, but I can really move the lat spread out there. The ribcage: Read this carefully, you would only want to stretch out the rib-cage in certain situations.

You have to take stock in your physique first. If you have high lats you probably donâ??t want to stretch out your ribcage. Look where your lats connect (bottom insertion) on the torso. If the bottom of your ribcage on the side is higher or even with your insertion then you will get even a more dramatic flare on your lat spread. Your ribcage will bellow out with your lats and you will have a helluva flare. If your ribs are too low, and you stretch out with your ribcage dramatically this could ruin your lat flare as it will flare down and then out again where your ribcage is. Not good.

So this is a decision you will have to make. The old standard dumbbell pullover across the bench will stretch it right over time. Get a heavy dumbbell and as you stretch it out and over your head as far back as possible-at the same time sink your hips as far downs as you can. Straighten your legs to get even more of a stretch. Seriously you only need about one set a couple times a week for about 5 reps each. At the very start of the movement breathe in as much air as humanly possible (even until your taking baby breathes in) and then hold the air and lower the dumbbell. Repeat on each rep.

It is probably not the healthiest thing to do as far as blood pressure but it seems the only way to do the trick. You might get a little light-headed from holding your breath. Key Note: At the very bottom of your stretch try to push your sternum up and out (very important)--- The shoulder girdle is difficult to move but it can be done. If you have done weighted chins over time with heavy weights you should be all set. But if you donâ??t well here we go.

After your back workout hang a heavy dumbbell on a dipping belt and attach to your waist. Stand up on a bench and take the widest comfortable grip (WITH STRAPS!!!) on the chinning bar. Then just hang and sag back while doing so. We use a 100LB dumbbell, and we try to make it for 3 minutes but never do. You arms will feel like they are coming out of the sockets. Just lean back and grit it out for as long as you can. (Bobby Brady watch out). You might think itâ??s silly but you tell me what happens over a years time.

My shoulders are DRAMATICALLY wider than they were in high school and I used to hang religiously. Lastly, this one is hard to explain. The area your scapula occupy is made up of a whole bunch of pliable tissue, and you can actually get your scapula to rotate out tremendously further with this one. I have seen inches put on a lat spread with this one. Grab a doorknob overhand (both sides)â??lean back and push your ass way out, so now you are eye level with the doorknob. Simultaneously, with your back rounded and chest sunken, pull yourself up and forward (FLEXING YOUR LATS OUT) and push back with your feet to make it harder.

The day you create so much tension and hold it is the day you will remember. You will feel a pop and a sharp pain (lasting about 3 days) in the inner scapula. You write me and tell me if the side that you got to pop isnâ??t at least an inch out wider than the other lat. Work on the other one!
 
Greg Zulak Article

**broken link removed**

although I don't exactly know what's happening, it is a crazy sensation when you're hanging with an ultra wide grip, strapped in, and you can really feel it tugging on your lat insertions (so much on some sets that my lats start cramping up like crazy).. it's like you can really feel it pulling your lats/shoulders apart..
 
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11111...........wow your posts made me smile and of course if you can find my post you can share it hear where it probably belongs ....

Absolutely , I think guys fail to get real instruction when they take training serious .....they don't learn to really do the movements they are doing .....they don't learn to contract the muscles they are working ......and they don't build foundations ......the framework you have ,dictates a lot ....the wider your shoulders ,the better taper you have ,and smaller your waist looks .....develop a strong rib box like Arnold or Lou and you have depth from the side that few have .

Structural training works .......it is best for teens or early 20s folk .....but I have seen quite a few people that were advanced really change their shoulder structure with routines like yours ....[ good job on your routine ] ....Several girls I trained took it serious and did it with out fail and made shocking changes in less than a yr , one was only 6 months ......[ girls don't need the rib cage work unless really frail ] not too hard to buy a chin stand for your garage and Olympic bar ....some plates and maybe a small bench .....and dip belt ....most can get off craigs list and for dirt cheap ...that way you don't need to go to the gym to get these work outs in ....I commend your effort ......You are going to totally alter your shape ....but 1-2 inch to your delt width is huge and as is couple of inches to your rib box ......

I remember being taught breathing squats , pullovers , and hise shrugs [ just google how to do them ] .....by an old guy from NY as like a 12 yr old ....came back to school after summer 30 lbs heavier and much different looking than any kid in my area ....at 12 I looked like a buffed 16 yr old ........maybe older honestly ...but this guy was insistent on the old ways of building the foundation ....it stuck .....and yes , guys like zulak , and dante saw what I had learned as well ....I think it is funny how no one cares about this stuff anymore [ but you my friend ] ....guys start taking over a gram of gear first cycle ....and gh is soon after usually at over 4 ius .....what a waste ....and none of that is going to last if you have to cut back or stop . And believe me, that day comes sooner than later .

Most of the guys reading this even if they abuse themselves will probably see 80 yrs old ...the younger will probably see older .........if you get 10 yrs to push it .....and 3-5 yrs is spent getting there .....that still leaves a lot of life to be had as person not consumed with their appearance . [ if you build a natty foundation .....start gear at 21 [ 23 would be better like me ] in 2-3 yrs you build most of your mass .....by year 3 you scale back if you aren't huge ....if you are and shape is good ....you push ....if you all like 99 % you would be starting to go backward before you were 31 and no matter what you did it would be tough or dangerous to make any changes .....then say you ride it out til 40 ,then what ? No one cares about old buff guys or thinks they are cool ......in fact ,most of them get made fun of, including me .....and I don't look all that juiced up .....so now what ? You are in your 40s and you spent your life identifying with your body , as the looks fade ,and the body just looks good for and older guy ......are you going kill yourself to hang on to the illusion that it really matters how you look ?

I tell this to my dancers all the time .....they are young and beautiful they think it is real and going to last ......but let me tell you, that there is nothing more sad than 40 yr old strippers ....they have nothing else, but their looks ,and in the end, it doesn't go well at all ......you must learn to see reality on this journey and not take it so serious .......relax it is supposed to be fun ......I train very hard ....but in between sets , I play grab ass with my girl ......or just be grateful for my breath......lol .....do this right fellas have your priorities in place .....learn about life , love , and just be kind to yourself and others ........we make it so much harder than it needs to be ......I know I did .......what a joke I was .......lol ......I once was lost .....ha ha ...now I am found, and you can all be as well ........I here to support that.......

Love yourself .....your body ....express your uniqueness and celebrate that . But please see that no one cares about any of this, but a group of us brothers .....and most of us are driven by fear , insecurity , and the need to be good enough .......I want you all to heal , be healthy , have fun , help others , and find your way to a peaceful life .......I can tell you all from experience that constantly wanting to be bigger and better, only leads to wanting more and never being satisfied ......if I can help you do this right[ save time , money , and your health ] and in a positive way I will, because I actually care . I know the pain inside of all of you [ deny it or not ] is the same pain that I was inside of me .......one love
 
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