Some good advice for people on the cheapest best cycle for your money

[stryfe434]

You should post some pics to show us the results we should expect taking your advice. Werent you were 211 in April and still trying to lean out?

I don't remember. Honestly I'm not a huge guy. I was out of the gym for about 7 months and I'm just getting back. Right now been back for 2 months all I'm on is 100mg test trt, and 400 primo... I added 200mg npp a couple days ago. hgh 2iu

But here I just took this, no pump, you can see the vascularity I get from minimal primo.

https://imgur.com/a/y6DPm

 

[stryfe434]

in 16 weeks I'll post a pic lol

I do think there's something to be said about just running low dose, staying on that for a while, then running high dose, then back to low dose... I get results daily on barely anything.

and I smash ass like no tomorrow because I don't have a fat bloated face

 

[concreter]

I like It. Makes sense to Me.
I've been runnin 300 test e, 300 primo and 150 deca w-4-6 ius for the last 10 weeks. I'm up 5-8 lbs with steady gains coming back in strength.
I am adding in mk677 on certain days I don't mind being a little lethargic and eating A bit more.
Upping Primo has no sides just extra anabolics. Adding in a 100-200 tren will keep you lean while both adding size and strength, keeping sides to a minimum.
I save it for recomp and hardening as I find it hard to feed for Mass.
I also like A liitle proviron or mast to keep test free and LR3 when looking to really dial In!

 

[Elvia1023]

mk677 bloats you, and makes you feel lethargic.

Without hgh, your body is getting larger, but your muscles aren't developing any new satellite cells, and therefore when you get off the oils your muscles will simply return to their previous state. If you want to actually increase muscle fiber you have to be on hgh.

I don't really know where to start with this one. Firstly, I do partly agree with your cycle ideas in the sense what to run and how much for most people. Adding hgh will only help matters and if guys want to up then primo is a great compound to utilize. But you worded this thread as the cheapest best cycle for your money which I am sorry is stupid. Your proposed cycle is actually one of the most expensive... nothing minimal about it. I should add some test, npp with higher primo is an amazing cycle. So your cycle is great but it is not the best bang for your buck at all.

What did the guys do in the 70's and 60's? They looked incredible and they were not dosing hgh daily. You go on about satellite cells but aas can do that. Plus aren't you about 200 pounds... why do you need all these satelite cells to be 200 pounds? Bare minimal to look great on a beach aas wise would be something like 300mg test. I am not insulting you at all but merely stating the cheapest possible cycle to look great on a beach. Many can do it naturally but let's just state approx 300mg test for the aas user (I know loads can do it naturally).

If you worded your thread like the best possible cycle with health in mind and to make amazing gains then this reply wouldn't be what it is. Best bang for your buck is test and tren and it costs next to nothing. HGH is not essential at all. I am not stating it isn't great but you don't need it to look great... far from it. The same for primo which again is great but if budget is a concern who in their right mind would run 400mg up to 1g primo per week.

I mean honestly, anybody who wants to argue about the use of fucking hgh is lost.

I gave what I believe is the bare minimum cycle worth running.

No one is arguing hgh is not great but again it's not essential to looking fantastic. If someones budget permits it and they want to do it then blast away.

and honestly, I'd be careful with peptides. They're new.

Dat knew everything about them. And look he contracted something and is now going to die. I don't know if it was related. But personally I'd save the money on peptides and just buy more gh

Have you actually used peptides? Many are new but others have quite a lot of research backing them up. Again though like hgh they are not needed at all to look good. Guys on a bad budget shouldn't really be using anything but if cost is a concern it should be aas only and the likes of test, deca, tren, eq and dbol. All of them are very cheap and a decent cycle could be run for very low prices. Add in hgh and you multiply the cost. I can get 2 bottles of test, deca or tren for 1 bottle of primo. Plus primo needs to be dosed higher to get great results. Whereas even 200mg tren could give great results. We can't post prices but literally 1 vial of test and 1 vial of tren could be enough for 10 weeks of 300mg test and 200mg tren weekly which for many is more than enough to look really good. Something like that is your best possible cycle for a low budget... not primo and hgh!

 

[SRhealth-Rachel]

for beginner and cheap cycle, testosterone cycle is a geat choice, stack with Npp, Deca. Of course, that will depend on ur goal.

 

[ALLEX]

Interesting thread.

The Iranian standard protocol for anyone who wants to become a bodybuilder is as follows:

1-2 years natty. After that:

- 1 amp of test a week for 3 months
- 2 iu of HGH a day

Increase 1 amp of test and 1iu of HGH every 3 months.

Once you're taking 7 amps of test and 8iu of HGH, add primo. You should be ready to diet down and do your first competition.

They don't have UGL gear, so it's all pharma.

I'd try something like this before doing anything with tren.

 

[UseButDontAbuse]

First off. You want to recruit new satellite cells. There's only one way to change your body and make it literally beyond what your genetics allow. That's being on hgh. So save your money on oils. Until you have enough to get hgh first.

Then, get yourself enough hgh to run 4iu's a day. And make sure it will last you long enough so that you have saved enough money again to continue to run the hgh. hgh fat burning properties cut out at about 2 iu's, so inject twice a day at 2 iu

next, add your oils, this is different person to person as to what your body responds best to. I like

200mg test prop
200-300mg npp
400mg primo

Once again, save your money until you can afford the primo. Primo doesn't damage your body like other steroids. It makes me vascular as all fuck. It's the best addition you can possibly add because of the fact that it can be stacked with anything and not cause you any extra stress. Keep the npp below 300, bc over that and you'll eventually get deca dick. NPP is an amazing compound. Now, if you don't get harsh anxiety. Then add tren. Tren is unbeatable. But even if youre running tren at 100mg a week, you still get the sides. So don't bother running it at 100, run it around 300mg.

So 200mg test prop
200-300mg npp
400mg primo
possibly 200-300mg tren

With your AI, you have to get bloodwork. Get it one month after you started, see where you're at, and then adjust. If you tank your ai with too much letro or whatever, then you're fucked. It takes forever to come back and the sides are horrendous. It finicky as fuck and has to be taken care of by getting bloodwork at a month, then again another month later.

The tren will send your estrogen way the fuck off, so get it right before you add the tren.

On that cycle, you won't bloat, you'll put on massive size, burn off fat, and look vascular. But, everybody is different so you can use something else if you like it. Without the tren it's a feel good stack and you won't have any issues.

If you want to add an oral. Buy epistane. Epistane is an amazing feel good sense of life well being drug, and the results are phenomenal very similar to anavar but much cheaper.

add 30mg epistane a day run it for as long as you want. 6 weeks minimum.

If you want more gear, up the primo... up to 1g

without the tren and with the epistane you'll feel great, which is to me one of the most important things when using gear. Good luck guys.

Pics, otherwise this is useless, seems like bro science at highest lvl, however i must agree with you on HGH, it MAKES the difference.

If your point is to spend less , you should consider high test (chepaer) first with AI, HGH 2ui-4ui an oral (Turinabol, Winny) and deca (200-400)

 

[Mike Arnold]

mk677 bloats you, and makes you feel lethargic.
...and GH can do the same.

Without hgh, your body is getting larger, but your muscles aren't developing any new satellite cells, and therefore when you get off the oils your muscles will simply return to their previous state.
Sorry, but that statement is simply untrue. Gains maintenance has much more to do with your current level of development relative to your hormonal profile (and many other factors) than how many muscle cells you have. You do NOT need to experience hyperplasia in order to "keep" your gains. That is a silly proposition. Besides, even if you do gain new muscle cells it does not guarantee that you will keep your gains. It simply means you have new muscle cells, but these new muscle cells, as well as pre-existing cells, can (and will) atrophy to the point that all visible gains will be lost if you do not maintain a physiological environment conducive to muscle maintenance. Lastly, research shows that even AAS provide permanent performance enhancement benefits by increasing myonuclei density.

Plenty of guys have gained and kept a huge amount of muscle mass with steroids alone. GH will further increase muscle growth, but it is nowhere near as powerful as AAS in this regard. Steroids are the bread and butter of the PED world and are responsible for a solid 80-85% of a bodybuilder's total growth potential. The amount of actual muscle fiber one can gain from GH is actually quite small compared to AAS and should be viewed more as an addition to AAS rather than the priority. Your recommendation that people should abstain from AAS use until they have enough GH to run at least 4 iu/day is ill-founded.


If you want to actually increase muscle fiber you have to be on hgh.
No, you actually don't.

But sure, if you can only afford mk677 then you can swap that.

But honestly, this is bottom of the line imo... if you're too poor to afford it then the truth is you probably shouldn't be bodybuilding. it's an expensive hobby.
Nonsense. I guess Arnold shouldn't have taken up bodybuilding either...because he sure never used GH (spare me the cadaveric GH stories...because even if he did manage to obtain some cadaveric GH it wasn't much and took place later in his career, long after he had gained his muscle mass) and neither did many of the top pros from the 80's.

I will say this though, if you're actually one of the select few who can run tren and mk and not feel like shit... then by all means. Some people will probably come in and say add insulin. But you risk visceral fat accumulation with insulin.
Visceral fat build-up is not from insulin. It is caused by insulin resistance...and only a percentage of people feel lethargic on MK. Plenty of people feel just fine when using it.

If you're man enough, then a lil tiny bit of insulin carbless then 2ml of synthetine before cardio is incredible to keep you lean. But I don't recommend that bc carbless insulin is a finicky bitch. But the two synthesize it makes the carnitine incredibly powerful.

.....

 

[Mike Arnold]

cc of test deca tren weekly

or

cc of test deca weekly with 10mg sdrol ed


deca in there to prevent injuries always.

Nandrolone will increase the likelihood of injury, as it has recently been shown to damage tendons.

 

[Elvia1023]

Interesting thread.

The Iranian standard protocol for anyone who wants to become a bodybuilder is as follows:

1-2 years natty. After that:

- 1 amp of test a week for 3 months
- 2 iu of HGH a day

Increase 1 amp of test and 1iu of HGH every 3 months.

Once you're taking 7 amps of test and 8iu of HGH, add primo. You should be ready to diet down and do your first competition.

They don't have UGL gear, so it's all pharma.

I'd try something like this before doing anything with tren.

I wouldn't recommend tren for many people either. But for the best cycle for the cheapest price test and tren can't really be beaten. Now some guys can't use tren for various reasons so replace with deca or similar. Dbol is another good muscle builder that is super cheap. Test, deca and dbol for bulking. So many variables and for a newbie just test would be fine. This is purely going on the cheapest part of the equation. Now if long term goals and cost is not a factor then sure test, primo and hgh etc.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Well honestly I don't know the scientific studies that have been done to show that that anabolics recruit new satellite cells. If there is such a thing I haven't come across it.

The bottom line is this, run the 4iu of gh. If you do stop, and then down the line you come back, then the muscle memory will put you at a point much greater than you would have been had you not run the gh. BC of the new cells that developed in your muscles, those don't disappear.
Actually, steroids do more for "muscle memory", so to speak, than GH does. They do this by increasing myonuclei density. An increase in myonuclei is the reason that it is much easier to regain lost tissue than it is to gain it in the first place. Steroids amplify this process by increasing myonuclei density above and beyond what one would experience with normal growth patterns. This provides a permanent long-term advantage, as myonuclei, once they are gained, never go away, regardless of how small one's muscle get or how long they have been away from training. Now, GH has the potential to further improve the individual's regain rate through hyperplasia, but comparing steroids alone to steroids and GH is not a fair comparison. If you were to use only one or the other you would find that AAS have a more dramatic impact on one's regain rate than the GH.


You're maintaining your gains on TRT bc you are eating food and working out, you're losing some slowly but you're holding on to it by continuing going to the gym... Do this, leave the gym, eat like shit, for 8 months. Then come back and see how you look.

Now if you were on HGH, you're still gonna look like shit. But working out again you're gonna get bigger quicker.

Anyone, I promise you, that has used HGH for a year, knows this.

That's the whole point of the hgh, its a cumulative effect... the longer you are on it, the better. always. when you're not on it you are sacrificing building more muscle fibers...

But this isn't a debate about hgh. If you like MK and you don't feel like shit and youre not bloated... Then yes go ahead... But seriously shell out the fucking cash and get the hgh

....

 

[Mike Arnold]

and honestly, I'd be careful with peptides. They're new.

Dat knew everything about them.
No, he didn't. Although he knew a lot and put out a good deal of in-depth information, his advice was not always ideal for bodybuilders or anyone looking to maximize benefits. He also gave shit advice on more than occasion...and was nearly single-handily responsible for holding back progress on the GH peptide front for over 5 years with all his "GH bleed" bullshit. Because of him people maligned CJC-DAC for at least half a decade. He told everyone that better results would be had with Mod-GRF than with CJC-DAC, regardless of dose.

Right from the start I knew that was bullshit, as exo. GH causes the infamous "GH bleed" (especially when injecting it twice daily), yet we have known for decades that injectable GH gives awesome results regardless of protocol, as long as the dose is high enough.

Someone could be experiencing GH bleed out the ass with injectable GH and still make incredible progress. That fact alone should have been enough to convince people that something was "off" with his theories, but unfortunately it took 5 years for people to see the light. We now realize that the most effective GH peptide protocols actually use the exact OPPOSITE types of compounds that Dat said we should use, such as high doses CJC-DAC and MK-677, which certainly causes GH bleed, but which provides higher GH and IGF-1 levels than any other protocol.

And look he contracted something and is now going to die. I don't know if it was related. But personally I'd save the money on peptides and just buy more gh

...

 

[sub7percent]

and honestly, I'd be careful with peptides. They're new.



Dat knew everything about them. And look he contracted something and is now going to die. I don't know if it was related. But personally I'd save the money on peptides and just buy more gh

Where did you get this information about Dat?


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[hiasdamoon]

Interesting thread.

The Iranian standard protocol for anyone who wants to become a bodybuilder is as follows:

1-2 years natty. After that:

- 1 amp of test a week for 3 months
- 2 iu of HGH a day

Increase 1 amp of test and 1iu of HGH every 3 months.

Once you're taking 7 amps of test and 8iu of HGH, add primo. You should be ready to diet down and do your first competition.

They don't have UGL gear, so it's all pharma.

I'd try something like this before doing anything with tren.

That doesn't seem like a horrible plan. State sponsored doping guidelines are always good.
Too bad people on the internet want to start with 1 vial of test a week and 6 iu HGH a day......ahh money to burn I suppose.
Problem is, if someone is trying to do this on a budget, they are probably going to through tren in at some early point.

 

[ALLEX]

That doesn't seem like a horrible plan. State sponsored doping guidelines are always good.
Too bad people on the internet want to start with 1 vial of test a week and 6 iu HGH a day......ahh money to burn I suppose.
Problem is, if someone is trying to do this on a budget, they are probably going to through tren in at some early point.

I believe they came up with this plan in Iran because they don't really have UGL gear over there.

They do have test, deca, primo, hgh and insulin. And it's relatively cheap. Last time I checked the iu of pharmacy HGH was something around $2.5

 

[rmtt]

My last cycle was 200mg test and 200 mg of NPP a week and 25mg of MK daily. 10 weeks worth and very cost effective.

I don't get lethargy or bloated from MK. I can however eat like a MF while on it and still have trouble trying to gain weight. I wake up "flat" in the morning and as the day progresses with my meals I fill out and get very vascular.

I look my best at night after a full day of eating. Muscles full...no sub-q water, and insane vascularity. Even more so than right after training which is at 4:00 AM in the morning.

 

[j6]

GH is miraculous if you know how to put down calories.

I've pushed my food intake higher than ever and didn't get too fat these past few blast running GH at 4-5 ius a day.

Most bodybuilders on just AAS are limited by fat accumulation when progressively pushing up bodyweight in trying to accrue new tissue; GH can keep that at bay so you can continue that process far longer.

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming GH will make you look like Juan Morel while you pound Oreos every night lol It's an aid, not a solution.

There's also something to be said about permanent changes from GH on the body; Coach Trevor from enhanced athlete has talked about this. How he stays at a relatively lean 235-240 on trt and training not very frequently from pushing GH and AAS for years; he credits a lot of it to GH.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I’ve been consistently on GH [3/4ius ed] for more than a few years now. I can personally attest to the above and how that now, after years of GH and TRT (along with a few additions from time to time) my lean physique is much easier to maintain.

As if the GH changed my body composition.


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[lcsulla]

I don't really know where to start with this one. Firstly, I do partly agree with your cycle ideas in the sense what to run and how much for most people. Adding hgh will only help matters and if guys want to up then primo is a great compound to utilize. But you worded this thread as the cheapest best cycle for your money which I am sorry is stupid. Your proposed cycle is actually one of the most expensive... nothing minimal about it. I should add some test, npp with higher primo is an amazing cycle. So your cycle is great but it is not the best bang for your buck at all.



What did the guys do in the 70's and 60's? They looked incredible and they were not dosing hgh daily. You go on about satellite cells but aas can do that. Plus aren't you about 200 pounds... why do you need all these satelite cells to be 200 pounds? Bare minimal to look great on a beach aas wise would be something like 300mg test. I am not insulting you at all but merely stating the cheapest possible cycle to look great on a beach. Many can do it naturally but let's just state approx 300mg test for the aas user (I know loads can do it naturally).



If you worded your thread like the best possible cycle with health in mind and to make amazing gains then this reply wouldn't be what it is. Best bang for your buck is test and tren and it costs next to nothing. HGH is not essential at all. I am not stating it isn't great but you don't need it to look great... far from it. The same for primo which again is great but if budget is a concern who in their right mind would run 400mg up to 1g primo per week.







No one is arguing hgh is not great but again it's not essential to looking fantastic. If someones budget permits it and they want to do it then blast away.







Have you actually used peptides? Many are new but others have quite a lot of research backing them up. Again though like hgh they are not needed at all to look good. Guys on a bad budget shouldn't really be using anything but if cost is a concern it should be aas only and the likes of test, deca, tren, eq and dbol. All of them are very cheap and a decent cycle could be run for very low prices. Add in hgh and you multiply the cost. I can get 2 bottles of test, deca or tren for 1 bottle of primo. Plus primo needs to be dosed higher to get great results. Whereas even 200mg tren could give great results. We can't post prices but literally 1 vial of test and 1 vial of tren could be enough for 10 weeks of 300mg test and 200mg tren weekly which for many is more than enough to look really good. Something like that is your best possible cycle for a low budget... not primo and hgh!

As you pointed out an actual cycle of test and tren is relatively cheap...especially if you’re running it’s at say test 300 mgs and tren 200mgs a week. And almost anyone would look amazing on this cycle, unless you’re a competitor
What makes it expensive is if you’re actually running a cycle and not blasting and cruising. It’s the all the other stuff: nolva, clomid, adex, and hcg. That doubles the price at least.

 

[stryfe434]

.....

Thanks for clearing this up mike, learn something new every day. Like I said I hadn’t seen any studies so...

The muscle fiber statement was obviously not true I was referring to adding new satellite cells but oils do increase muscle fiber

 

[stryfe434]

Also I’ve heard some say insulin Won’t cause visceral fat and other well respected guys say it does. Which is why I say there is a chance to gain visceral fat. I think you recommend the 2-3 day a week protocol to keep down sensitivity is that what eliminates the possibility of gaining fat