Newest research on steroids vs your heart

[nothuman]

https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/tip-steroids-vs-your-heart

Worth posting. I’m sure I’ll get some “well no shit steroids are bad for you!” replies but there is other good information in this article.

 

[suppdude]

How is this “new”? Dated back almost a year ago and studies linked are quite old.


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[11111]

https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/tip-steroids-vs-your-heart

Worth posting. I’m sure I’ll get some “well no shit steroids are bad for you!” replies but there is other good information in this article.

good post.. i don't care if this has been posted before or if everyone "already knew this".... in this day and age, with the health issues that many bodybuilders have experienced (especially recently), this stuff can't be discussed enough...

even if it only helps 1 person reading the thread, it was worth posting..

 

[mike036]

I value any health related thread,you can never have too many,thanks Nothuman

 

[Stewie]

How is this “new”? Dated back almost a year ago and studies linked are quite old.


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Actually, the article by Aaron L. Baggish, et al was published in May, 2017. Some of the referenced citations were originally published between 91-02.

I can see were this might lead to the confusion.

 

[G.I.Bro]

Currently using AAS and gh year round. Pretend most of it is TRT, it's not.

Mitigate cholesterol/plaque issues with Praluent or other psk9 (non statin).

Mitigate blood pressure and heart remodeling with Telmisartan year round and low dose Bystolic (nebivolol - cardio protective highly selective beta blocker) on blast or when on weight loss stimulants (clen, ephedrine).

TONS of other heart/health supplements (curcumin, k2, krill, fish oil, ubiq, metformin, etc).

Strive to do more cardio and eat clean.

Will still have enlarged heart / lvh. Will still likely have to face heart issues before 65. Hopefully not fatal, but enlarged heart runs in males in my family (genetic propensity). AAS Mental Addiction is a hell of a thing boys. Staring reality in the face is something we all need to do. I should already be off, tbh, just based on my risk factor profile. If you're not monitoring BP, lipids, etc it's a mistake. I keep putting off getting an echocardiogram, mostly because I don't want more evidence I need to stop. Im a rational, well educated person with a lot to learn. My physique doesn't define me or my accomplishments. Yet I'm still mentally addicted. I can't imagine the guys who's physique is all they have. They can't let it go..

 

[lntense]

Thanks for sharing nothuman, will give it a read when I can.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Currently using AAS and gh year round. Pretend most of it is TRT, it's not.

Mitigate cholesterol/plaque issues with Praluent or other psk9 (non statin).

Mitigate blood pressure and heart remodeling with Telmisartan year round and low dose Bystolic (nebivolol - cardio protective highly selective beta blocker) on blast or when on weight loss stimulants (clen, ephedrine).

TONS of other heart/health supplements (curcumin, k2, krill, fish oil, ubiq, metformin, etc).

Strive to do more cardio and eat clean.

Will still have enlarged heart / lvh. Will still likely have to face heart issues before 65. Hopefully not fatal, but enlarged heart runs in males in my family (genetic propensity). AAS Mental Addiction is a hell of a thing boys. Staring reality in the face is something we all need to do. I should already be off, tbh, just based on my risk factor profile. If you're not monitoring BP, lipids, etc it's a mistake. I keep putting off getting an echocardiogram, mostly because I don't want more evidence I need to stop. Im a rational, well educated person with a lot to learn. My physique doesn't define me or my accomplishments. Yet I'm still mentally addicted. I can't imagine the guys who's physique is all they have. They can't let it go..

Well put man! Even with all the meds, supps and lifestyle adjustments, we are still reducing our (quality adjusted) life expectancy. But as long as we are honest to ourselves about those negative health consequences, and if we do our best to mitigate them, I don't think it is irrational to use PEDs.

I find bodybuilding to be highly fulfilling, and I would enjoy life less without the lifestyle. I tried being 'normal' and to focus on my career, family and all the other things people derive meaning from. But honestly it just bores me to death. As long as the benefits from bodybuilding during your lifetime outweigh the lower number of years lived, I don't see a problem with it. People do all kinds of activities which carry the risk of death, and they do so because it enriches their life. Think of soldiers, cops, race car drivers, basejumpers. These people aren't irrational to risk their life, they accept the possibility of death because it allows them to enjoy life more than they otherwise could. Now you can argue about one being more 'meaningful' than the other. But frankly, there's many people who don't see much meaning in life and for those the best bet is to do what they love.
To me, bodybuilding is an art that stimulates me physically, mentally, and intellectually, enriches my life in so many ways, and makes me strive to be a better person. So for me, the benefits far outweigh the risks. Sorry for the rant.

 

[suppdude]

Actually, the article by Aaron L. Baggish, et al was published in May, 2017. Some of the referenced citations were originally published between 91-02.

I can see were this might lead to the confusion.

I see this now, my mistake.

Thanks for posting nohuman. I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, just was confused on the new research part. Confusion no more.

 

[maldorf]

Evidence that the heart can recover

The article mentions empirical evidence that the heart can recover from cardiomyopathy if you stop taking steroids. I had that very same experience. Ive mentioned it on here before. Back about 5 years or so before my heart attack I was getting out of breath really easy and went to see the doc. They did an echo and my ejection fraction came back around 35%. Normal is 55-60% or so.

I saw a cardiologist and immediately got off all of the steroids I was taking. I stayed off for about 11 months or so. Got another echo done and my ejection fraction was up to 55%. Perfectly normal heart on the echocardiogram. Previous to that my heart was all stiff and enlarged somewhat due to the steroids apparently. They call the wall motion "akinetic" because they don't move very much, become stiff. That was all gone after 11 months off the steroids. I promised the doc I wouldn't use again and he said he didn't need to see me any more.

Then I was dumb and couldn't resist it. I started up on steroids again and then 5 years later I had my heart attack. Once you use them, steroids are hard to quit. I'm lucky to be alive today.

 

[NEMSZ]

The article mentions empirical evidence that the heart can recover from cardiomyopathy if you stop taking steroids. I had that very same experience. Ive mentioned it on here before. Back about 5 years or so before my heart attack I was getting out of breath really easy and went to see the doc. They did an echo and my ejection fraction came back around 35%. Normal is 55-60% or so.

I saw a cardiologist and immediately got off all of the steroids I was taking. I stayed off for about 11 months or so. Got another echo done and my ejection fraction was up to 55%. Perfectly normal heart on the echocardiogram. Previous to that my heart was all stiff and enlarged somewhat due to the steroids apparently. They call the wall motion "akinetic" because they don't move very much, become stiff. That was all gone after 11 months off the steroids. I promised the doc I wouldn't use again and he said he didn't need to see me any more.

Then I was dumb and couldn't resist it. I started up on steroids again and then 5 years later I had my heart attack. Once you use them, steroids are hard to quit. I'm lucky to be alive today.

I’m aware of your story for the most part but I’m curious as to what doses you were messing with when you got back on and caused more heart issues?

I’m sorry if you’ve gone over this a million times, I know we’ve spoken before about other things regarding this..

I know you said you used heavier doses before your heart attack but wondering if you went back on as heavy after those 11 months or were you like the “TRT and a little add on” type of guy those 5 years?

I ask because I did a lot of dumb shit and although I’m still young and I got checked in December and everything is perfect with the exception of my HDL is low but I’m working on that, I get paranoid of the future..

At 27 I just became the “TRT and a little add on” type lol..

 

[maldorf]

I’m aware of your story for the most part but I’m curious as to what doses you were messing with when you got back on and caused more heart issues?

I’m sorry if you’ve gone over this a million times, I know we’ve spoken before about other things regarding this..

I know you said you used heavier doses before your heart attack but wondering if you went back on as heavy after those 11 months or were you like the “TRT and a little add on” type of guy those 5 years?

I ask because I did a lot of dumb shit and although I’m still young and I got checked in December and everything is perfect with the exception of my HDL is low but I’m working on that, I get paranoid of the future..

At 27 I just became the “TRT and a little add on” type lol..

The time I am speaking about here was when I was diagnosed with idiopathic cardiomyopathy, where they don't know for sure the cause. After being off for 11 months and recovering it was pretty obvious what the cause was. I did not have a heart attack, rather my heart was in a diseased state from taking steroids.

Prior to having cardiomyopathy I would cycle and get off on PCT then be clean for awhile then cycle again. Cycles were something typically like 750 mg test, 500 mg EQ, and 600 mg tren. Maybe 2 weeks in the beginning of some orals. High dose I suppose but not as high as some.

After I recovered I went back on using lower doses. 500 mg test and 300 mg tren. Over the years that dose grew as I needed more and more to grow it seemed. Eventually I started cruising and never got off. Cruises were about 200-250 mg/wk test. There were some high dose cycles I ran, probably around 2g/week total later on but then I got with Phil Hernon and he had me lower the dose back down. I also messed around with GH and insulin. It is after this period when I had my heart attack. I should have heeded the warning I had years before when I had the cardiomyopathy and gotten off for good.