A lesson learned about steroid dosages.

[Deleted member 106824]

ive been running Adex through my doctor at .25mg every day for 7 years now and have absolutely no issues with lab work every 6 months. Lipid profiles always perfect along with all the other tests we run. Estrogen always comes in around mid 30s. Low 30s is where doc wants it but mid-30s is acceptable. Anything over 40 or under 20 and you are worse off then with the adex. High or low estro leads to much more severe health problems long term in my opinion.

I'm surprised you're still in the mid 30s with 1.75mg per week. What's your Test dose?

According to this Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - page 1 | Life Extension you don't want your estradiol much over 30

You're lucky. But that's not a huge dose either. Arimidex and other AIs (letrozole, exemestane) are notoriously hard on cholesterol levels. They will drive good HDL very low in a majority of people if used heavily. Any AI is not great for lipid profile, but heavy use of AI will impact most people's blood work. It's best to use as little as absolutely necessary for HRT or cycling.

When I was using 2mg of adex per week my HDL went down to ~70 to 55 or so. Still good but a very noticeable drop. On 1mg of Adex though I went back up to mid 60s and my recent lipid profile was
Total Cholesterol: 182
HDL: 75
LDL: 98
Triglycerides: 31

So it's fantastic on 1mg adex per week


Having said that, I don't think one can conclude they aren't experiencing any side effects just because their lipid levels or even blood work on the whole is good. There are plenty of issues that can arise that will not show up on standard blood work (and I see too many people convinced they're completely fine just because they have normal standard lab values).

 

[Deleted member 106824]

First of all these women already have health issues which is why they are taking adex. i dont believe these studies should apply to healthy male adults trying to keep estrogen under control. Plus in most studies of already "sick" women they are taking the adex at higher dosages then men do. We're comparing apples to oranges. i listen to my wellness doctors who've dealt with guys like me for over a decade and see bloodwork on their patients regularly. if your taking test or any steroids that convert to estrogen you should be taking adex. High estrogen long term is much worse for you health wise then .25mg of adex per day to control it.

hasnt been the case for me. My lipid profiles improved from 10 years ago. High estrogen is way worse for your lipid profiles then the adex you're using to control it.

I agree with your first post here for the most part. Second post though, can't say I've seen any data that high estrogen is bad for lipids. Generally women have better lipid profiles than men and it's often assumed this is due to higher estrogen.

 

[musclemoose]

I'm surprised you're still in the mid 30s with 1.75mg per week. What's your Test dose?

According to this Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - page 1 | Life Extension you don't want your estradiol much over 30

Test dose is never lower then 400mg a week (this is cruising for me) and when i blast i go up to 1000-1200mg. Estrogen is always 35 no matter what dose of test im on. i go every 6 months for labs. my doctor only thinks im on the prescribed dose of 200mg a week. I lower the dose down 2 weeks before labs and at 200mg my test comes in around 1200-1300 and doctor is good with that. I smile when he sees my full labs and tells me every time its best he's seen out of all his patients for my age and pats me on back. And i get ultrasounds on my organs once a year to look for abnormalities and always comes back good. Been doing Anabolics for 18 years. 8 years going to wellness physician. Any issues i ever had with labs went away the minute i stopped using tren and orals. Its when i turned 30 and my first wellness physician told me id be dead by 40 after seeing my labs. Was heavy tren and s-drol user. Loved those 2 anabolics. Havent touched them since. I dont make a living doing this. Just a hobby and id like to live another 40 years. Shit aint worth dieing for. But i do love my high dose test blasts and my hgh. And no issues with those two products and my health.

 

[Elvia1023]

Test dose is never lower then 400mg a week (this is cruising for me) and when i blast i go up to 1000-1200mg. Estrogen is always 35 no matter what dose of test im on. i go every 6 months for labs. my doctor only thinks im on the prescribed dose of 200mg a week. I lower the dose down 2 weeks before labs and at 200mg my test comes in around 1200-1300 and doctor is good with that. I smile when he sees my full labs and tells me every time its best he's seen out of all his patients for my age and pats me on back. And i get ultrasounds on my organs once a year to look for abnormalities and always comes back good. Been doing Anabolics for 18 years. 8 years going to wellness physician. Any issues i ever had with labs went away the minute i stopped using tren and orals. Its when i turned 30 and my first wellness physician told me id be dead by 40 after seeing my labs. Was heavy tren and s-drol user. Loved those 2 anabolics. Havent touched them since. I dont make a living doing this. Just a hobby and id like to live another 40 years. Shit aint worth dieing for. But i do love my high dose test blasts and my hgh. And no issues with those two products and my health.

It's very strange your estrogen doesn't change no matter what your test dose is. Have you ever got blood work mid blast and not come down in dose before it? What about heart scans etc? How extensive is the bloodwork you get? Bloodwork is great but it only paints part of the picture.

 

[musclemoose]

It's very strange your estrogen doesn't change no matter what your test dose is. Have you ever got blood work mid blast and not come down in dose before it? What about heart scans etc? How extensive is the bloodwork you get? Bloodwork is great but it only paints part of the picture.

I go to a wellness physician. Im in florida. Clinics are everywhere. Lab is next door. Pharmacy is next door to that. Lol. And the lab work is extensive as it gets. And abdominal and heart ultrasounds done once a year covering the vital organs. i dont mess around. Insurance doesnt even cover 90% of this. I could be driving a lambo for the amount i spend on my health and fitness. thank god for quality generic meditrope hgh.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Test dose is never lower then 400mg a week (this is cruising for me) and when i blast i go up to 1000-1200mg. Estrogen is always 35 no matter what dose of test im on. i go every 6 months for labs. my doctor only thinks im on the prescribed dose of 200mg a week. I lower the dose down 2 weeks before labs and at 200mg my test comes in around 1200-1300 and doctor is good with that. I smile when he sees my full labs and tells me every time its best he's seen out of all his patients for my age and pats me on back. And i get ultrasounds on my organs once a year to look for abnormalities and always comes back good. Been doing Anabolics for 18 years. 8 years going to wellness physician. Any issues i ever had with labs went away the minute i stopped using tren and orals. Its when i turned 30 and my first wellness physician told me id be dead by 40 after seeing my labs. Was heavy tren and s-drol user. Loved those 2 anabolics. Havent touched them since. I dont make a living doing this. Just a hobby and id like to live another 40 years. Shit aint worth dieing for. But i do love my high dose test blasts and my hgh. And no issues with those two products and my health.

What does your echocardiogram show? What's your ejection fraction and LVEDD?

 

[Dancho]

It's very strange your estrogen doesn't change no matter what your test dose is. Have you ever got blood work mid blast and not come down in dose before it? What about heart scans etc? How extensive is the bloodwork you get? Bloodwork is great but it only paints part of the picture.

the amount of aromatase is not infinite. probably he just has low levels meaning he can convert only x test to estrogen. then if he takes 5x test he still can convert x to estrogen.

 

[heman4u]

I'm on Telmisartan 80mg, Bystolic 10mg, and Probenecid 500mg per day for heart health and pulse rate control.

What time of the day you take them bro? Split dose or all together?

 

[musclemoose]

What does your echocardiogram show? What's your ejection fraction and LVEDD?

I dont get a print out of it like i do for my labwork. I literally go in get a bunch of gel rubbed on me and the guy does his thing with the ultrasound and my doctor goes over it all with me. And i just wait to hear the words "everything looks normal".

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I dont get a print out of it like i do for my labwork. I literally go in get a bunch of gel rubbed on me and the guy does his thing with the ultrasound and my doctor goes over it all with me. And i just wait to hear the words "everything looks normal".

Eh, I'd look into that if I were you. There are plenty of doctors who will say things are "fine" unless they're really out of whack. I only found out about my heart issue because I kept pushing to get more information.

I'm not saying there is definitely an issue for you, but if I were you I'd want to know the actual numbers and decide for myself if things are where they should be.

Frankly it's hard to believe someone could be using gear for 10-20 years and not have some enlargement of their heart

 

[nothuman]

What time of the day you take them bro? Split dose or all together?

I take a half a dose of each at 11am and 11pm (before bed). I no longer have mild diastolic dysfunction and my Pro-BNP level is 14.

 

[nothuman]

Eh, I'd look into that if I were you. There are plenty of doctors who will say things are "fine" unless they're really out of whack. I only found out about my heart issue because I kept pushing to get more information.

I'm not saying there is definitely an issue for you, but if I were you I'd want to know the actual numbers and decide for myself if things are where they should be.

Frankly it's hard to believe someone could be using gear for 10-20 years and not have some enlargement of their heart

I would never walk out of the office without a copy of my echocardiogram or whatever else I get. These doctors (mostly) will only be reactive and not preventative.

On the other hand, it is far less stressful to not know everything, as I have learned the hard way.

 

[musclemoose]

I would never walk out of the office without a copy of my echocardiogram or whatever else I get. These doctors (mostly) will only be reactive and not preventative.

On the other hand, it is far less stressful to not know everything, as I have learned the hard way.

Well im the patient and can obviously get copies anytime i want. But what does that do for me. if the guy doing the ultrasound say everything looks good and then my physician says everything looks normal who am i to argue. In my opinion i dont trust doctors when they say something is wrong. then i would go get second opinions with all the fraud that goes on these days. so when i hear normal i trust my doctor because he has no interest in lieing to me about my tests. and i go to a wellness doctor who specializes in preventative medicine. thats why i do these tests once a year and lab work twice a year. so i can detect a problem beforehand. not after its too late. And my doctor doesnt go by ranges "recommended". he goes by ranges for "optimal" health. what we work on is being in best health possible. not just good or normal. but optimal. so if he thinks i can improve he will advise me on what steps to take. But right now after 18 years of AAS use and 7 years hgh i am optimal across the board. how i got to optimal? i cut these completely from my life... alcohol, rec drugs, bread, pasta, fried food, unhealthy fats, sugar, red meat, toxic anabolics like tren and oral steroids. I added these too my life... fish, leaner cuts of protein (always 98-99%), olive oil, avacados, more fruits, veggies and nuts and various supplements like mutis, fish oil, NAC, Vit D, CoQ10, Probiotics. And let me tell you avacados best thing by far i added to my diet. was remarkable what it did for my lab tests. Took fish oil for years and inflammation was always still too high (over 2 on tests). i added 1 avacado a day under docs advice and inflammation is optimal (under 1 now).

 

[nothuman]

Well im the patient and can obviously get copies anytime i want. But what does that do for me. if the guy doing the ultrasound say everything looks good and then my physician says everything looks normal who am i to argue. In my opinion i dont trust doctors when they say something is wrong. then i would go get second opinions with all the fraud that goes on these days. so when i hear normal i trust my doctor because he has no interest in lieing to me about my tests. and i go to a wellness doctor who specializes in preventative medicine. thats why i do these tests once a year and lab work twice a year. so i can detect a problem beforehand. not after its too late. And my doctor doesnt go by ranges "recommended". he goes by ranges for "optimal" health. what we work on is being in best health possible. not just good or normal. but optimal. so if he thinks i can improve he will advise me on what steps to take. But right now after 18 years of AAS use and 7 years hgh i am optimal across the board. how i got to optimal? i cut these completely from my life... alcohol, rec drugs, bread, pasta, fried food, unhealthy fats, sugar, red meat, toxic anabolics like tren and oral steroids. I added these too my life... fish, leaner cuts of protein (always 98-99%), olive oil, avacados, more fruits, veggies and nuts and various supplements like mutis, fish oil, NAC, Vit D, CoQ10, Probiotics. And let me tell you avacados best thing by far i added to my diet. was remarkable what it did for my lab tests. Took fish oil for years and inflammation was always still too high (over 2 on tests). i added 1 avacado a day under docs advice and inflammation is optimal (under 1 now).

I actually couldn’t agree more since it sounds like you’re doing all the right things. When you’re doing your part to keep health in check, you’re better off just living your life and not worrying about every little detail if they say you’re fine.

 

[musclemoose]

I actually couldn’t agree more since it sounds like you’re doing all the right things. When you’re doing your part to keep health in check, you’re better off just living your life and not worrying about every little detail if they say you’re fine.

I just realized when i turned 30 and my doctor told me id be dead by 40 that if im going to be using anabolics regularly i better do it under doctors supervision and i better do everything i can to keep my health in check (especially with dieting). Cause if you think your gonna take anabolics, eat whatever you want and go out drinking your in for a world of pain. i learned early on this is a discipline lifestyle. So if you like to drink/party on weekends and eat burgers and wings better stop the anabolics. will just add to your health problems. casuse gym or no gym an unhealthy lifestyle with anabolics just makes you have health problems quicker.

 

[Elvia1023]

the amount of aromatase is not infinite. probably he just has low levels meaning he can convert only x test to estrogen. then if he takes 5x test he still can convert x to estrogen.

Of course. Although I would think looking at his doses his estrogen would climb/fall more. That's why I asked if he has ever had them tested mid blast and not after coming down for a few weeks whilst using AI's. If you get tested through the years but at each time it's at a very similar hormonal status chances are estrogen will be the same. Some up the dose but up AI usage to combat that. For nearly everyone I have seen who has had bloodwork done through the years but at various doses their estrogen has always varied as a result. I know it won't just keep climbing.

I don't know Msuclemoose and he is obviously doing great things for his health so as Nothuman basically just posted carry on and don't stress about the little things. I just wasn't originally sure if he is one of those guys who gets tested at a similar time everytime. Now I have read more I know he isn't one of those guys so MM ignore this post. A good example of that could be those guys who get blood work done after a cycle everytime and say I am super healthy but they don't get tested mid blast when on tren and adrol so they don't see the full picture.

 

[danieltx]

I just realized when i turned 30 and my doctor told me id be dead by 40 that if im going to be using anabolics regularly i better do it under doctors supervision and i better do everything i can to keep my health in check (especially with dieting). Cause if you think your gonna take anabolics, eat whatever you want and go out drinking your in for a world of pain. i learned early on this is a discipline lifestyle. So if you like to drink/party on weekends and eat burgers and wings better stop the anabolics. will just add to your health problems. casuse gym or no gym an unhealthy lifestyle with anabolics just makes you have health problems quicker.

I think the stuff you're talking about has contributed more to the deaths of bodybuilders than people realize.

Just the amount of carbs most bodybuilders eat isn't healthy due to the inflammation it promotes. Then there's the daily cheat meals because you're 250lbs. and 7% and on whatever you're on and can get away with it. Add in partying, alcohol, recreational drugs, copious prescription ancillaries, no cardio because you're scared of losing gains, life stressors, never coming off steroids or even using hormone replacement doses, etc., and it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[musclemoose]

Of course. Although I would think looking at his doses his estrogen would climb/fall more. That's why I asked if he has ever had them tested mid blast and not after coming down for a few weeks whilst using AI's. If you get tested through the years but at each time it's at a very similar hormonal status chances are estrogen will be the same. Some up the dose but up AI usage to combat that. For nearly everyone I have seen who has had bloodwork done through the years but at various doses their estrogen has always varied as a result. I know it won't just keep climbing.

I don't know Msuclemoose and he is obviously doing great things for his health so as Nothuman basically just posted carry on and don't stress about the little things. I just wasn't originally sure if he is one of those guys who gets tested at a similar time everytime. Now I have read more I know he isn't one of those guys so MM ignore this post. A good example of that could be those guys who get blood work done after a cycle everytime and say I am super healthy but they don't get tested mid blast when on tren and adrol so they don't see the full picture.

it took me years to dial in my bloodwork to optimal ranges. been trial and error for 7 years. if you saw my labs at age 30 complete disaster. i was eating what i wanted, partying like a rock star, taking heavy doses of anabolics and not taking anti-e's. looked amazing on the outside but my insides were twisted. id get constant headaches. weird pains in my lower back area. stomach issues. inflammation in my shoulders that would put me out of commission for months. i was a complete wreck. now with everything optimal i cant remember the last time ive had a headache. no more weird pains ever. and i wake up feeling like 21 year old rockstar every day. Regarding the estrogen i mean it varies but not significantly enough to really cause concern. Sometimes it'll jump to 40 but ive never seen higher. past couple tests were all around 35. ive never been able to get it lower than 30 and it never goes higher than 40.

 

[musclemoose]

I think the stuff you're talking about has contributed more to the deaths of bodybuilders than people realize.

Just the amount of carbs most bodybuilders eat isn't healthy due to the inflammation it promotes. Then there's the daily cheat meals because you're 250lbs. and 7% and on whatever you're on and can get away with it. Add in partying, alcohol, recreational drugs, copious prescription ancillaries, no cardio because you're scared of losing gains, life stressors, never coming off steroids or even using hormone replacement doses, etc., and it's a recipe for disaster.

yes all the high GI carbs and the insulin and the pounding sugar down after working out. very bad. for carbs i only eat fruit, veggies, oats, sweet potatoes, brown rice and whole grain/higher fiber wheat.

 

[headtrainer]

Test dose is never lower then 400mg a week (this is cruising for me) and when i blast i go up to 1000-1200mg. Estrogen is always 35 no matter what dose of test im on. i go every 6 months for labs. my doctor only thinks im on the prescribed dose of 200mg a week. I lower the dose down 2 weeks before labs and at 200mg my test comes in around 1200-1300 and doctor is good with that. I smile when he sees my full labs and tells me every time its best he's seen out of all his patients for my age and pats me on back. And i get ultrasounds on my organs once a year to look for abnormalities and always comes back good. Been doing Anabolics for 18 years. 8 years going to wellness physician. Any issues i ever had with labs went away the minute i stopped using tren and orals. Its when i turned 30 and my first wellness physician told me id be dead by 40 after seeing my labs. Was heavy tren and s-drol user. Loved those 2 anabolics. Havent touched them since. I dont make a living doing this. Just a hobby and id like to live another 40 years. Shit aint worth dieing for. But i do love my high dose test blasts and my hgh. And no issues with those two products and my health.

I fully agree with your doctor about the tren and superdrol putting you into an early grave. Testosterone is much safer! But I don’t see how your estrogen levels aren’t going up some when you increase your test dosages. Also, GH is good for the tendons but it causes an enlarged heart in most cases when moderate to large dosages are used for an extended period of time.