Echocardiogram results. Thick heart.

[nothuman]

Stop the juicing and heavy lifting bulking while you are ahead. You'll be fine and live a long and healthy life, on low doses and adjustment in heavy weights.

Lowering the weight reducing rep speed and training quicker with higher rep ranges will go along way in helping. I reached my peak size and strength in my 30's and it was foolish to try and hit that formula in my 40's.

I had been going to a cardiologist since 2007, and we noticed a significant difference in heart size and EF - commenting about my reduction in heavy lifting and bodyweight and AAS which we never discussed but he most likely knew from my medical record.

Agreed. How has your heart size and EF changed since 2007?

 

[Deleted member 121863]

Heart thickness will not reverse itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Massive G]

Agreed. How has your heart size and EF changed since 2007?

I don't have the reports in front of me, but the scans he showed me saw a reduction in heart size, and Ef went from the 50's to the high 60's.
I go back in october and will get the tests repeated.

 

[nothuman]

I don't have the reports in front of me, but the scans he showed me saw a reduction in heart size, and Ef went from the 50's to the high 60's.

I go back in october and will get the tests repeated.

Nice. That's what taking control of our health does for us. Hopefully there will be continued progress come October.

 

[Thebigone]

One of my clients is a cardiologist and I showed him my results. He actually said my results looked pretty normal for any type of an athlete. He said the reason for the 10% EF drop was probably because I was on adderall back then when I had that 2016 echo and he said stimulants will cause an artificial increase in ejection fraction as well as hydration and other variables can effect EF.

 

[Gizmo]

One of my clients is a cardiologist and I showed him my results. He actually said my results looked pretty normal for any type of an athlete. He said the reason for the 10% EF drop was probably because I was on adderall back then when I had that 2016 echo and he said stimulants will cause an artificial increase in ejection fraction as well as hydration and other variables can effect EF.

I'd say that's very good news.

 

[method2madness]

Stop the juicing and heavy lifting bulking while you are ahead. You'll be fine and live a long and healthy life, on low doses and adjustment in heavy weights.
Lowering the weight reducing rep speed and training quicker with higher rep ranges will go along way in helping. I reached my peak size and strength in my 30's and it was foolish to try and hit that formula in my 40's.
I had been going to a cardiologist since 2007, and we noticed a significant difference in heart size and EF - commenting about my reduction in heavy lifting and bodyweight and AAS which we never discussed but he most likely knew from my medical record.

This sounds like great advice, you are certainly lucky to have caught this before it got to a more dangerous point. Best of luck brother!!

 

[Thebigone]

Update:

Just had my echocardiogram done. Heart thickness decreased about 35% and ejection fraction was good. I was super nervous. My doctors only concern is my blood pressure and heart rate are too high. BP 140/85. HR 110 but he says it’s from not doing a phlebotomy for so long. It’s been about six months since my last phlebotomy which I need to do since my hemoglobin crept back up to 19 from 16.5

He also wants me to start back on Lisinopril which I’m fine with as it has a ton of health benefits. Originally I was on lisinopril and Hctz but I dropped the hctz as it can cause dehydration and increase hemoglobin even more.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Heart thickness will not reverse itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Update:

Just had my echocardiogram done. Heart thickness decreased about 35%

 

[maldorf]

Update:

Just had my echocardiogram done. Heart thickness decreased about 35% and ejection fraction was good. I was super nervous. My doctors only concern is my blood pressure and heart rate are too high. BP 140/85. HR 110 but he says it’s from not doing a phlebotomy for so long. It’s been about six months since my last phlebotomy which I need to do since my hemoglobin crept back up to 19 from 16.5

He also wants me to start back on Lisinopril which I’m fine with as it has a ton of health benefits. Originally I was on lisinopril and Hctz but I dropped the hctz as it can cause dehydration and increase hemoglobin even more.

Keep that BP down! You should be measuring it at home at least once a week. Glad youre going back on lisinopril under doctor's care. Is he going to have you back in the office in 2 to 4 weeks to remeasure your BP?

Why did you wait so long to do a phlebotomy. Do you know why your hemoglobin got so high? Are you still taking AAS?

Let the members here know what you have done different to decrease your left ventricular wall hypertrophy by 35%, that is impressive! Great news for you. What you are doing is working. Just have to keep that BP and hemoglobin down. You should get a CBC done every 3 or 4 months if it is getting that high. My hematologist has me go in every 4 months and get a CBC. If it is over 15 he has me do a phlebotomy. Works well for me.

One thing that helped me keep my hemoglobin down was to avoid taking a regular once a day multivitamin. Those have iron in them and that can raise your hemoglobin some. Cutting mine out helped keep it down. I now take a "senior" multi because they do not have any iron.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I don't know what supplements, if any, you take, but if I were you, I'd buy the following supplements. These have all been proven to reduce EF. I take them all and my EF is 60%, which is an INCREASE from 55%.

- arjuna gold from amazon (2 caps daily)

- d-ribose (15g-20g daily). That would be absolutely mandatory and it's an easy purchase.

- pine bark extract aka pycnogel

- ubiquinol (assuming you take this already because if you don't, what are you thinking??)



I believe if you don't buy these, you don't care enough about your health. They have too much positive data on them and it's a drop in the bucket financially. Don't be a cheap bastard. Just google all their effects on EF and invest in your health. My apologies if you already take them.



As for the other results on the echo regarding the thickness, I don't want to pretend to be an expert but I probably know more than most people on here since I've had a whole lot of echos. Admittedly, I only have paid attention to the results I get that are either not good or borderline, but at the end of the day, the solution is the same. Keep blood pressure low, maintain a low resting heart rate, take these supplements (anyone who tries to argue these supplements aren't worth it for heart health without reading the data on them...screw you).

We should have a talk on supplements some time our opinions are generally similar but we have a few notable discrepancies

Mine results are very similar and have been for past 5 years, I am 35, and been lifting for 19 years and started juicing at age 17. i am 5'10, 230 - 280lbs - 8%-20%bf.. my ejection fraction is around 55%, and the right ventricular was a bit enlarged but the left slightly thickened - athletic heart - NOT a cardiomyopathy. Only once 9 years ago after 6 months of overusing stimulants for dieting - ECA, T3, CLEN , my EF was down to 48% and I felt pretty shitty. And i am juicing on high doses 2-5g weekly -constantly,slin and GH used only for 6 months non stop....

Man I see this, and the OPs posts, and I'm very happy for you guys that your hearts are doing so well

But it really does make me wonder if my heart issues were really from drugs I used or not. I've been pretty convinced they are but this was on and off for just 3 years. I did about 8 four-week superdrol cycles in that time which was retarded. Also abused T3 for three summers. Not smart, but other than that it was almost entirely just test in the 500-1500mg range and no real stimulant use, along with cardio, constantly great blood pressure and low heart rate, cardio, etc....just shocked when I see some of these reports that mine could have gotten so bad from just a few years of use.

 

[Thebigone]

Keep that BP down! You should be measuring it at home at least once a week. Glad youre going back on lisinopril under doctor's care. Is he going to have you back in the office in 2 to 4 weeks to remeasure your BP?

Why did you wait so long to do a phlebotomy. Do you know why your hemoglobin got so high? Are you still taking AAS?

Let the members here know what you have done different to decrease your left ventricular wall hypertrophy by 35%, that is impressive! Great news for you. What you are doing is working. Just have to keep that BP and hemoglobin down. You should get a CBC done every 3 or 4 months if it is getting that high. My hematologist has me go in every 4 months and get a CBC. If it is over 15 he has me do a phlebotomy. Works well for me.

One thing that helped me keep my hemoglobin down was to avoid taking a regular once a day multivitamin. Those have iron in them and that can raise your hemoglobin some. Cutting mine out helped keep it down. I now take a "senior" multi because they do not have any iron.

Yes my follow up is in 4 weeks with BP measurements.

In the past I was always on a base of 500mg/wk test 50mg/day proviron and would add something else. Usually primo or npp or Anavar. And a base of 4iu/day gh. Changes were I dropped to Trt(150-200mg/Test and 1.5-2iu GH/day. Was on Lisinopril and reduced training to higher reps. Phlebotomies used to be every month but it ranked my ferritin so after several trial and errors with multiple blood tests I found a phlebotomy every 3 months kept my hemoglobin in check without effecting iron/ferritin. Also a big one is I add 10g hydromax to my water and shot for 1.5 gallons per day. My hemoglobin can fluctuate from 16.5-19.5 just based of hydration alone.

My supplement regimen is a bit extreme but I feel it’s a good band aid over a bullet wound:

Turmeric 900mg(95% curcuminoids) 2x/day
Hawthorn berry 500mg 2x per day(jarrow)
Magnesium Glycinate 400mg(KAL) 400mg morning
magnesium l threonate Magtein 2010mg night
Fish oil 3G 2x daily(Nutrabio)
Krill oil 1g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Sytrinol 150mg 2x/day
Astaxanthin 4mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
Vitamin C complex 2g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
VitE complex 400iu/day(solgar)
D3 10,000iu day(vitaminshoppe)
VitK(MK-7) 90mcg/day(jarrow)
Na-R(+)-ALA 200mg 2x/day(ast sports science)
NA-RALA 125mg 2x/day (doctors best)
ALCAR 500mg 2x/day
milk thistle 600mg(%80) (vitacost)
Liv 52 double strength 2 tabs/day(Himalaya)
Ubiquinol 200mg/day(jarrow)
MitoQ 10mg/day
PQQ 20mg/day(Jarrows)
Shilajit Fulvic Acid complex 250mg/day(jarrow)
Baby aspirin/day
Selenium 100mcg/day 3-4 days/wk
Citrus Bergamot 500mg/day(jarrow)
Nattokinase 2,000fu/day(Doctors Best)
Lumbrokinase 1,000fu/day(doctors best)
Arjuna 1 tab/day(Himalaya)
Feverfew 325mg 2x/day(NOW)
Pycnogenol 100mg 1-2x/day(vitamineshoppe)
Trans-Resvertrol 500mg 2x/day(Nutrabio)
Grape seed 100mg/day(%75)(vitaminshoppe)
Indoor-3-Carbinol 200mg 1x/day(NOW)
Green Tea Extract(%50 egcg) 500mg/day(Vitacost)
Boswellia 5-Loxin 150mg/day
CarotenAll 1 gel/day (jarrow)
5g D-Ribose powder 2-3x/day
Vinpocetine 10mg 1-2x/day(Source Naturals)
Siberian Eleuthero 500mg2x/day(.8%)(Bluebonnet)
Ginger root 550mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ginko Biloba 120mg(%24%) 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Bromelain(500mg-2400 GDU/g) 2x/day(Now)
Allicin 650mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
NAC 600mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ip-6(3.2g ip6/880mg inositol) (Cell Forte)
Living Liquid 1oz/day(Viva Vitamins)
Methyl b-12 5000mcg/day(jarrow)
K1ngs Blood 3caps/day (Olympus Labs)
Semax intranasal 200mcg/day
D-Ribose powder 10g/day
VSL#3 probiotic 1/day
Orac-Energy greens
Miracle reds
Sacred 7 Mushroom powder
Niacinamide 500mg/day(nutrabio)
Tru Niagen 250mg 2x/day
Ceylon Cinnamon 500mg 1-2x/day(carlson Labs)
Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg 2x/day
NALT 350mg after adderall wears off
200mg L-Theanine 2-3x/day
Creatine Monohydrate 5-10g/day
KSM-66 300mg/night
CDP Choline 250mg/day(Jarrows)
Alpha GPC 150mg 2x/day
Chocamine 1g/day
Lions Maine 8:1 1g/day
Epicor 500mg/day
Pomella 200-300mg/day
Uridine 200mg 1-2x/day
Cyracos Lemon balm 600mg/night
300mcg Melatonin/night
Jiaogulan 2x/day
Ashitaba 500mg 2x/day
BenaGene 100mg/day
cytoastragalus 25mg/day
astragaloside iv 20% 200mg/day

 

[MKSuccess500]

Yes my follow up is in 4 weeks with BP measurements.

In the past I was always on a base of 500mg/wk test 50mg/day proviron and would add something else. Usually primo or npp or Anavar. And a base of 4iu/day gh. Changes were I dropped to Trt(150-200mg/Test and 1.5-2iu GH/day. Was on Lisinopril and reduced training to higher reps. Phlebotomies used to be every month but it ranked my ferritin so after several trial and errors with multiple blood tests I found a phlebotomy every 3 months kept my hemoglobin in check without effecting iron/ferritin. Also a big one is I add 10g hydromax to my water and shot for 1.5 gallons per day. My hemoglobin can fluctuate from 16.5-19.5 just based of hydration alone.

My supplement regimen is a bit extreme but I feel it’s a good band aid over a bullet wound:

Turmeric 900mg(95% curcuminoids) 2x/day
Hawthorn berry 500mg 2x per day(jarrow)
Magnesium Glycinate 400mg(KAL) 400mg morning
magnesium l threonate Magtein 2010mg night
Fish oil 3G 2x daily(Nutrabio)
Krill oil 1g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Sytrinol 150mg 2x/day
Astaxanthin 4mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
Vitamin C complex 2g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
VitE complex 400iu/day(solgar)
D3 10,000iu day(vitaminshoppe)
VitK(MK-7) 90mcg/day(jarrow)
Na-R(+)-ALA 200mg 2x/day(ast sports science)
NA-RALA 125mg 2x/day (doctors best)
ALCAR 500mg 2x/day
milk thistle 600mg(%80) (vitacost)
Liv 52 double strength 2 tabs/day(Himalaya)
Ubiquinol 200mg/day(jarrow)
MitoQ 10mg/day
PQQ 20mg/day(Jarrows)
Shilajit Fulvic Acid complex 250mg/day(jarrow)
Baby aspirin/day
Selenium 100mcg/day 3-4 days/wk
Citrus Bergamot 500mg/day(jarrow)
Nattokinase 2,000fu/day(Doctors Best)
Lumbrokinase 1,000fu/day(doctors best)
Arjuna 1 tab/day(Himalaya)
Feverfew 325mg 2x/day(NOW)
Pycnogenol 100mg 1-2x/day(vitamineshoppe)
Trans-Resvertrol 500mg 2x/day(Nutrabio)
Grape seed 100mg/day(%75)(vitaminshoppe)
Indoor-3-Carbinol 200mg 1x/day(NOW)
Green Tea Extract(%50 egcg) 500mg/day(Vitacost)
Boswellia 5-Loxin 150mg/day
CarotenAll 1 gel/day (jarrow)
5g D-Ribose powder 2-3x/day
Vinpocetine 10mg 1-2x/day(Source Naturals)
Siberian Eleuthero 500mg2x/day(.8%)(Bluebonnet)
Ginger root 550mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ginko Biloba 120mg(%24%) 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Bromelain(500mg-2400 GDU/g) 2x/day(Now)
Allicin 650mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
NAC 600mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ip-6(3.2g ip6/880mg inositol) (Cell Forte)
Living Liquid 1oz/day(Viva Vitamins)
Methyl b-12 5000mcg/day(jarrow)
K1ngs Blood 3caps/day (Olympus Labs)
Semax intranasal 200mcg/day
D-Ribose powder 10g/day
VSL#3 probiotic 1/day
Orac-Energy greens
Miracle reds
Sacred 7 Mushroom powder
Niacinamide 500mg/day(nutrabio)
Tru Niagen 250mg 2x/day
Ceylon Cinnamon 500mg 1-2x/day(carlson Labs)
Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg 2x/day
NALT 350mg after adderall wears off
200mg L-Theanine 2-3x/day
Creatine Monohydrate 5-10g/day
KSM-66 300mg/night
CDP Choline 250mg/day(Jarrows)
Alpha GPC 150mg 2x/day
Chocamine 1g/day
Lions Maine 8:1 1g/day
Epicor 500mg/day
Pomella 200-300mg/day
Uridine 200mg 1-2x/day
Cyracos Lemon balm 600mg/night
300mcg Melatonin/night
Jiaogulan 2x/day
Ashitaba 500mg 2x/day
BenaGene 100mg/day
cytoastragalus 25mg/day
astragaloside iv 20% 200mg/day

Is this a fucking joke lol holy shit.

This is the part where people think supplements are magic and ignore the fact that you cut your AAS and GH to 1/3 of what it was, added lisinopril, and changed your training

 

[maldorf]

Is this a fucking joke lol holy shit.

This is the part where people think supplements are magic and ignore the fact that you cut your AAS and GH to 1/3 of what it was, added lisinopril, and changed your training

Yeah, dropping down the doses was the big factor, maybe the only one. To get even better you could drop down to just 100 mg/wk test and be done with it. Only "special" supplements I take are ubquinol and baby aspirin. I do take a multi vitamin, C, B complex, and magnesium. Other than that it is just lisnopril, mexiletine, and bisoprolol meds.

 

[maldorf]

The Bigone, thanks for letting us know exactly what you did. Good to know how you brought your heart function back up.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Yeah, dropping down the doses was the big factor, maybe the only one. To get even better you could drop down to just 100 mg/wk test and be done with it. Only "special" supplements I take are ubquinol and baby aspirin. I do take a multi vitamin, C, B complex, and magnesium. Other than that it is just lisnopril, mexiletine, and bisoprolol meds.

Second this. Thebigone you're either messing with us or crazy lol 75 supplements? I'm all for supplements and even I "only" take about 10 that are well researched. I would imagine even Nothuman is taking maybe a third of what you're taking.

 

[Thebigone]

It sounds like a lot of supplements but each one serves its own purpose. If anyone is interested in what certain ones do feel free to ask. A multivitamin would be listed as “1” supplement but if you broke it all down it could easily be 20-30 different supplements.

Oh btw I forgot another supplement lol

i26 Hyperimmune Egg Powder. ��

 

[liv2pb]

Yes my follow up is in 4 weeks with BP measurements.

In the past I was always on a base of 500mg/wk test 50mg/day proviron and would add something else. Usually primo or npp or Anavar. And a base of 4iu/day gh. Changes were I dropped to Trt(150-200mg/Test and 1.5-2iu GH/day. Was on Lisinopril and reduced training to higher reps. Phlebotomies used to be every month but it ranked my ferritin so after several trial and errors with multiple blood tests I found a phlebotomy every 3 months kept my hemoglobin in check without effecting iron/ferritin. Also a big one is I add 10g hydromax to my water and shot for 1.5 gallons per day. My hemoglobin can fluctuate from 16.5-19.5 just based of hydration alone.

My supplement regimen is a bit extreme but I feel it’s a good band aid over a bullet wound:

Turmeric 900mg(95% curcuminoids) 2x/day
Hawthorn berry 500mg 2x per day(jarrow)
Magnesium Glycinate 400mg(KAL) 400mg morning
magnesium l threonate Magtein 2010mg night
Fish oil 3G 2x daily(Nutrabio)
Krill oil 1g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Sytrinol 150mg 2x/day
Astaxanthin 4mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
Vitamin C complex 2g 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
VitE complex 400iu/day(solgar)
D3 10,000iu day(vitaminshoppe)
VitK(MK-7) 90mcg/day(jarrow)
Na-R(+)-ALA 200mg 2x/day(ast sports science)
NA-RALA 125mg 2x/day (doctors best)
ALCAR 500mg 2x/day
milk thistle 600mg(%80) (vitacost)
Liv 52 double strength 2 tabs/day(Himalaya)
Ubiquinol 200mg/day(jarrow)
MitoQ 10mg/day
PQQ 20mg/day(Jarrows)
Shilajit Fulvic Acid complex 250mg/day(jarrow)
Baby aspirin/day
Selenium 100mcg/day 3-4 days/wk
Citrus Bergamot 500mg/day(jarrow)
Nattokinase 2,000fu/day(Doctors Best)
Lumbrokinase 1,000fu/day(doctors best)
Arjuna 1 tab/day(Himalaya)
Feverfew 325mg 2x/day(NOW)
Pycnogenol 100mg 1-2x/day(vitamineshoppe)
Trans-Resvertrol 500mg 2x/day(Nutrabio)
Grape seed 100mg/day(%75)(vitaminshoppe)
Indoor-3-Carbinol 200mg 1x/day(NOW)
Green Tea Extract(%50 egcg) 500mg/day(Vitacost)
Boswellia 5-Loxin 150mg/day
CarotenAll 1 gel/day (jarrow)
5g D-Ribose powder 2-3x/day
Vinpocetine 10mg 1-2x/day(Source Naturals)
Siberian Eleuthero 500mg2x/day(.8%)(Bluebonnet)
Ginger root 550mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ginko Biloba 120mg(%24%) 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Bromelain(500mg-2400 GDU/g) 2x/day(Now)
Allicin 650mg/day(vitaminshoppe)
NAC 600mg 2x/day(vitaminshoppe)
Ip-6(3.2g ip6/880mg inositol) (Cell Forte)
Living Liquid 1oz/day(Viva Vitamins)
Methyl b-12 5000mcg/day(jarrow)
K1ngs Blood 3caps/day (Olympus Labs)
Semax intranasal 200mcg/day
D-Ribose powder 10g/day
VSL#3 probiotic 1/day
Orac-Energy greens
Miracle reds
Sacred 7 Mushroom powder
Niacinamide 500mg/day(nutrabio)
Tru Niagen 250mg 2x/day
Ceylon Cinnamon 500mg 1-2x/day(carlson Labs)
Ginkgo Bilboa 120mg 2x/day
NALT 350mg after adderall wears off
200mg L-Theanine 2-3x/day
Creatine Monohydrate 5-10g/day
KSM-66 300mg/night
CDP Choline 250mg/day(Jarrows)
Alpha GPC 150mg 2x/day
Chocamine 1g/day
Lions Maine 8:1 1g/day
Epicor 500mg/day
Pomella 200-300mg/day
Uridine 200mg 1-2x/day
Cyracos Lemon balm 600mg/night
300mcg Melatonin/night
Jiaogulan 2x/day
Ashitaba 500mg 2x/day
BenaGene 100mg/day
cytoastragalus 25mg/day
astragaloside iv 20% 200mg/day

Damn someone who takes as much shit as me lol. Glad to see you're hearts doing better man. I've been taking a large supplement regime for about 8 years now. Got into this pre AAS.

Edit- you actually take more than me. That's a first haha

 

[Thebigone]

I ordered a special blood test that lets you know how your aging. Your body produces what are called telomeres. If they are too short it means you’re aging faster and have a risk of cancer, diseases, etc. you want them longer but not too long. Attached are my results:

 

[pickapeck]

If it was me I would do 100 mg every 7-10 days for a year and get into Judo or Karate or something more athletic for a year. That's probably why I'm still healthy at 57 b/c that's what I always did after a stint of haevy cycling and feing shit and out of breath after those chemical experiments. Go grapple with some gang of assholes when your hormones are in check and you will make different kinds of gains and that includes health.