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How much protein do we really need

Joltan

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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUS48iCT_4I"]How Much Protein do we Really Need? When should we Eat it Dieting vs Bulking Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]


This guy is a coach and youtube personality (Greg Doucette). He says you only need 1 gram per pound of bodyweight for maximum hypertrophy. What are your thoughts on this?

Usually people say 1.5 - 2x... never heard a recommendation this low.
 
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its gonna depend on a bunch of factors. to name a few:
-enhanced or nattie
-keto diet or carbs in diet
-amount of carbs in diet

i think you need 1.3457899 gms per lbs of bw:st:r-wars
-F2S
 
How much do you need?

Or how much is optimal for maximum muscle growth/body composition?

Personally, and even when natty, when i pushed the protein up to 350g and above I was my biggest and strongest.
 
The protein is bad bandwagon is so overhyped. Everyone needs different amounts but most will get better results (muscle growth) using high protein (as in 2g per lb).
 
Only a small study one an interesting one...

A High Protein Diet Has No Harmful Effects: A One-Year Crossover Study in Resistance-Trained Males.


Antonio J1, Ellerbroek A1, Silver T1, Vargas L1, Tamayo A1, Buehn R1, Peacock CA1.

Author information

The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of a high protein diet over a one-year period. Fourteen healthy resistance-trained men completed the study (mean ± SD; age 26.3 ± 3.9 yr; height 178.5 ± 8.4 cm; and average years of training 8.9 ± 3.4 yr). In a randomized crossover design, subjects consumed their habitual or normal diet for 2 months and 4 months and alternated that with a higher protein diet (>3 g/kg/d) for 2 months and 4 months. Thus, on average, each subject was on their normal diet for 6 months and a higher protein diet for 6 months. Body composition was assessed via the Bod Pod®. Each subject provided approximately 100-168 daily dietary self-reports. During the subjects' normal eating phase, they consumed (mean ± SD) 29.94 ± 5.65 kcals/kg/day and 2.51 ± 0.69 g/kg/day of protein. This significantly increased (p < 0.05) during the high protein phase to 34.37 ± 5.88 kcals/kg/day and 3.32 ± 0.87 g/kg/day of protein. Our investigation discovered that, in resistance-trained men that consumed a high protein diet (~2.51-3.32 g/kg/d) for one year, there were no harmful effects on measures of blood lipids as well as liver and kidney function. In addition, despite the total increase in energy intake during the high protein phase, subjects did not experience an increase in fat mass.

PMID: 27807480 PMCID: PMC5078648 DOI: 10.1155/2016/9104792
 
nitrogen retention is for sure a fixed integer that is universal for everyone, nothing could possibly influence it /sarcasm
 
I cut protein down from 1.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight with higher amounts of gear and I looked and felt worse.

Sent from my S2 using Tapatalk
 
-keto diet or carbs in diet
-amount of carbs in diet
-F2S

High carb diets likely make no change to protein metabolism, ketogenic diets likely make no change to protein metabolism. When both a high carb and a high fat diet are held constant in total energy consumption, both will likely impact protein turnover the same.
 
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By "need", I take that to mean minimum requirement. It's probably not as much as you think. I've gone below 1 gram per pound of body weight at 7% body fat multiple times. With a caloric surplus that contains more carbs and fats, that should still be suitable for most.

Is it optimal for hypertrophy? Probably not. Will it maintain most of your gains? Probably so.
 
I take in about 30% of my total calories (all sources counted) from protein when not dieting, I think the key isn't how much you eat but maintaining a positive nitrogen balance, which means timing protein, eating enough protein sparing nutrients, etc.
 
I'm actually backwards. I eat less when dieting. 150-200g/day. But go up to 300--400 when putting on size. Because when dieting I try to get in as extreme a calorie deficit as possible while sparing muscle, and it doesn't seem like I need much protein to do so. But my body likes a lot of protein when gaining. That being said if I was a competitive bodybuilder I would stay lean year round and would diet on more calories and protein and a much smaller deficit.
 
Usually people say 1.5 - 2x... never heard a recommendation this low.

1 gram per pound is no low, its normal. 2 grams is probably very high and unnecessary for most, but it depends if you are a classic athlete like Greg, or someone with more muscle mass.

I like to be at 30 gram per meal and go up to 40 grams if I want to cut.
 
Whenever I start a new program I just measure 1 cup of chopped or minced meat and 1 cup of a starch source and that's my meal. I do this every 2.5-3 hours that I am awake. Some days I might double this amount on one or two meals if I really feel like I'm not going to recover for my next workout. It worked for me doing DC training for one year, and I was able to even drop 27 pounds at the end while still beating the log book. But keep in mind I was already fat and coming out of a lay off.
 
that 2g/lb a day is horseshit.
NOBODY will use that.

300g a day = 240 pounds of protein a year. u gain how much muscle mass a year after a while? 10 pounds? 8 pounds? and u need 240 pounds to achieve that?

and muscle is 70 percent water by weight.
even if u gained 20 pounds of muscle "mass" in a year its only 6 pounds of actual tissue. the rest is fluid.

but go ahead and "believe" the more u eat the more/faster u will gain "mass"
it aint gonna happen. what WILL happen is you'll spend way more money on protein sources than yr body can possibly use for growth.
 
I'm actually backwards. I eat less when dieting. 150-200g/day. But go up to 300--400 when putting on size. Because when dieting I try to get in as extreme a calorie deficit as possible while sparing muscle, and it doesn't seem like I need much protein to do so. But my body likes a lot of protein when gaining. That being said if I was a competitive bodybuilder I would stay lean year round and would diet on more calories and protein and a much smaller deficit.

Same here.
 
that 2g/lb a day is horseshit.
NOBODY will use that.

300g a day = 240 pounds of protein a year. u gain how much muscle mass a year after a while? 10 pounds? 8 pounds? and u need 240 pounds to achieve that?

and muscle is 70 percent water by weight.
even if u gained 20 pounds of muscle "mass" in a year its only 6 pounds of actual tissue. the rest is fluid.

but go ahead and "believe" the more u eat the more/faster u will gain "mass"
it aint gonna happen. what WILL happen is you'll spend way more money on protein sources than yr body can possibly use for growth.

My experience after years of experimenting with all possibilities as well.
 
that 2g/lb a day is horseshit.
NOBODY will use that.

300g a day = 240 pounds of protein a year. u gain how much muscle mass a year after a while? 10 pounds? 8 pounds? and u need 240 pounds to achieve that?

and muscle is 70 percent water by weight.
even if u gained 20 pounds of muscle "mass" in a year its only 6 pounds of actual tissue. the rest is fluid.

but go ahead and "believe" the more u eat the more/faster u will gain "mass"
it aint gonna happen. what WILL happen is you'll spend way more money on protein sources than yr body can possibly use for growth.

There were studies posted here but not taking the time to find them - think it was Dante?

One showed 40g vs 20g protein post workout resulted in more lbm and less fat.

The other showed 70g vs 50g protein post workout (again) resulted in more lbm and less fat.

These were done on regular gym rats. I'm gonna go with the data and say in this case "more is better" does apply.
 
You will use all protein you take in, you will always turn a percentage of that protein into energy. Your body is perfectly happy burning protein as fuel and the more protein you eat, the higher percentage will be burned as fuel. The more carbs and fats you eat with the protein, the less protein will be burned as fuel. It is likely that you would have to consume an incredibly small amount of protein to prevent any of it from being burned as fuel, the goal isn't to prevent protein used for energy, the goal is to MAINTAIN a small amount of protein used for energy (i.e. a positive nitrogen balance, nitrogen from the breakdown of protein into energy). Is there any advantage to extra protein beyond maintaining a positive nitrogen balance? Perhaps, but this would probably be from digestion over time more than anything else.

A pound of muscle will only require less than 100g of protein to build, HOWEVER there will be a SIGNIFICANT energy requirement to synthesize this muscle (out of the protein, the energy will not come from this protein used to build it).

Here is an interesting note, when going from natty to enhanced, and working with muscle memory, I think most of us have experienced muscle growth at very high rates, not just water, but quality muscle can go on at an ungodly rate when it's all muscle memory and everything is primed perfect. I've noticed that during this time, large amounts of protein OR small amounts of protein have very little impact on this hyper growth period. I can even restrict calories and grow in these periods.

Here is another point, anything you do to one macro, you do to other macros. When you increase protein, you must decrease fat and/or carbs. If you decrease protein, you can eat more fat and/or carbs. This equation isn't just about protein, carbs are anabolic, fat is anabolic. There is an optimal level of each, if you increase one, you lower the other(s). It's all about what is "enough" of each macro.
 
Obviously if it's just what you need then of course you can get away with low amounts. I am 250 pounds and not fat most of the year and go through periods of eating approx 100g protein per day. I go through periods of eating minimal meat as well. Nothing really changes when I drop very low. There are other macros that can be upped when needed. Even to grow you don't need that much protein. But for optimal results in regards to muscle growth and to be big I 100% think guys should be consuming high protein. Obviously everyone requires different amounts but 2g per pound sounds about right. Maybe it's on the high side but if someone wants to be a freak by no means is 400g protein unreasonable.
 
I developed IBS 10 months ago and had to drop my protein in half...150 grams or so...as well as eat a Low FODMAP vegan diet. I've been doing that for 8 months now and to my surprise I've been able to maintain my size.
I do admit though that it is difficult to add size.
I'm sure 34 years of training has helped in that though.
 
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