Red blood markers not dropped much in 9 months?

[jayl19]

Hey guys, could do with some input on blood work, sorry I know this kinda stuff pops up all the time but you guys are the best people to ask online

So in December I was on a bulk, 800mg test, 800mg eq, 1g primo (too much I know) when I fucked my rotator cuff and had to abandon the cycle and bulk, so dropped down to 200mg test and 200mg primo up in till March

In March I had blood donated and then 1 week later blood draw, results below


Doctor left comments saying I need to see a GP ASAP, which I ignored as I figured he had to say that plus the GPs around her are useless with stuff like this

So I dropped to 150mg test (nothing else) in March till now (aug) and my new blood work is almost identical?

Is this something to worry about? Iv been doing a ton of weights and cardio, can that really push red markets this high? Plus platelets are always low with me too, which is a good thing isn’t it?

Help

 

[Delt123]

elevated rbc and hematocrit on trt is common. I remember a study that basically stated that blood donations are not sufficient enough to keep hematocrit under 54% in roughly half (?) of the population of that study.

54% being the tipping point for hematocrit in trt patients according to Endocrine Society.

I'd seek help from your GP instead of doing things on your own.

 

[MajorGeneralMoron]

I'd seek help from your GP instead of doing things on your own.

This is probably the best optionn.

 

[Stewie]

I'd say there's probably some erythropoietic stimuli outside of androgenic stimuli, say such as hypoxia from undiagnosed OSA. Also, a worthy mention, our thyroid plays a fundamental in proliferation of red blood cells. So that may be any area of exploring too.

 

[MajorGeneralMoron]

Doctor left comments saying I need to see a GP ASAP, which I ignored as I figured he had to say that plus the GPs around her are useless with stuff like this

So I dropped to 150mg test (nothing else) in March till now (aug) and my new blood work is almost identical?

Is this something to worry about? Iv been doing a ton of weights and cardio, can that really push red markets this high? Plus platelets are always low with me too, which is a good thing isn’t it?

Help

Whats with the unusual spelling on the bloodwork papers?

 

[MajorGeneralMoron]

I'd say there's probably some erythropoietic stimuli outside of androgenic stimuli, say such as hypoxia from undiagnosed OSA. Also, a worthy mention, our thyroid plays a fundamental in proliferation of red blood cells. So that may be any area of exploring too.

Can you explain all that stuff you just said in a more simple way so us idiots (or is it just me) can also understand?

 

[jayl19]

Whats with the unusual spelling on the bloodwork papers?

Not sure what your talking about, I’m from England and this is how them words are spelt

Anyway thanks lads for the replays

Iv had a look back through all my blood works (not had many done tbh) and all of them have high rbc, hemo, hct even the blood work I was taking fake test had them high, not this high but still high

RBC - 184
Hemo - 0.546
HCT - 5.93

That’s on zero test for 4 months too

So it must be something else as you guys say

Strange thing is my heart rate is also low and blood pressure is always low/normal and my platelets are always normal too

Even when I take loads of test my e2 don’t go high so I never have high blood pressure from water retention

Only time i ever had problems is when I went to turkey last year and bought pharmacy grade androl and took 2 a day for 2 weeks, gained that much weight my face was bright red, high blood pressure and sleep apnia

Went to doctors who referred me to sleep clinic but by the time I got the invite for the test I had lost weight and them problems where 100% gone

Is there any chance some people just have high oxygen in blood and are still healthy?

What about lack of sleep? Iv been dieting and every time I diet I can only sleep 3/4 hours a night and that’s with out stims, I have so much energy when I diet for some strange reason?

What about tan injections? Iv seen a couple of times people mention they MIGHT mess with red bloods? Been on them for 8 years off and on?

Anything else it could be?

Im certain it’s not sleep apnea, I’m a baker and go to bed early and my girl is always awake next to me in bed watching tv so she would know if I had it just like when I did have it last year from the androl and she made me go doctors

My blood work while on is almost the same as trt or off, might aswel jump back on gear if that’s the case

Thing is Iv lost about 20lb of muscle due to shoulder injury, trt, plus dnp

I’m finally back to training 100%, and lean as fuck and ready as ever to rebound

I’m prob just gona do a small 500mg test cycle for 8 weeks, get my muscle back, also retest red blood in 5 weeks and see if it stayed the same or went up

Also gona use ip-6 iron secretion sup, Dante recons it’s stops red blood from elevating too quick

Thanks again people

 

[MajorGeneralMoron]

Not sure what your talking about, I’m from England and this is how them words are spelt

Anyway thanks lads for the replays

Ah, now I feel more stupid than usual. You being from England and the slight differences in some of the words spelled makes perfect sense. Damn, i'm dumb.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Sitting at an HCT of 58+ for prolonged periods of time is a very bad idea. It will increase your stroke risk acutely and predispose you for atherosclerosis down the line. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225673/

Blood donations do have a place in situations like this. Yes, there a drawbacks (e.g. iron deficiency, HCT and platelet production spike), but these can be alleviated. You should make an appointment with a hematologist to discuss the best way to go about it. And do it ASAP. Hopefully he will be able to figure out the underlying cause as well.

In the meantime, do not exceed TRT doses. In fact, you should measure your serum free test and lower your dose until it is in range. You may be able to go back to juicing once you have been diagnosed by an expert and/or once you have found a phlebotomy protocol that keeps your HCT below 54 tops.

 

[pickapeck]

If you want it to come down go off for one month. It will come down. You will lose the steroid pump and crash slightly but your numbers will come down. You can use hCG and Clomid to soften the landing. I do this every time after a blast and it works with blood work that I use to verify. Blood donation seems to worsen the problem over time. Then there are soon issues with ferritin levels. Better off to come off for a month.

 

[Stewie]

Can you explain all that stuff you just said in a more simple way so us idiots (or is it just me) can also understand?

Erythropoietic stimuli is a term used to denote that there's a positive response from your kidneys to kick out erythropoietin (EPO). Erythropoietin is a biophysiological reaction to produce more red blood cells via bone marrow.

In the bodybuilding community, especially the individual that use AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroids), one of the MOA (mechanism of actions) is to stimulate the synthesis of EPO-->red blood cells.

Hypoxia is a term used to denote a reduction of oxygen supply or low oxygen environment. When this occurs this stimulates erythropoietin--> increased red blood cell production. Think of it as a demand and need situation when our bodies experience low levels of oxygen. Unfortunately, our bodies can't differentiate the actual need when there's a sufficient supply of erythrocytes (red blood cells). It's just a physiologically reaction when our bodies sense lower than normal oxygen intake.

Proliferation denotes as an expeditious increase in any particular thing being discussed. In this case, red blood cells. Such as the aforementioned about our thyroid playing a role in the proliferation of red blood cells. There's some belief (mixed literature) that hyperthyroidism can influence an increased rate of red blood cells maturation. In contrast, hypothyroidism slows this process down, in which leads to anemia.

 

[GettingBackIn]

I'm going through something similar. Like you, I took 4 months off and didn't see a change. My doctor is a competitive bodybuilder himself and is pretty good with labs, but we haven't found a way to lower my rbc that works yet, so I'm completely off everything until I can get it down. I've now been off hrt for almost a year, and I'll repeat blood work next month. I've been donating blood every 60 days since I came off, so I hope it's lower now.

 

[nothuman]

I'm going through something similar. Like you, I took 4 months off and didn't see a change. My doctor is a competitive bodybuilder himself and is pretty good with labs, but we haven't found a way to lower my rbc that works yet, so I'm completely off everything until I can get it down. I've now been off hrt for almost a year, and I'll repeat blood work next month. I've been donating blood every 60 days since I came off, so I hope it's lower now.

Have you considered sleep apnea? Are you taking melanotan 2?

 

[nothuman]

Sitting at an HCT of 58+ for prolonged periods of time is a very bad idea. It will increase your stroke risk acutely and predispose you for atherosclerosis down the line. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225673/

Blood donations do have a place in situations like this. Yes, there a drawbacks (e.g. iron deficiency, HCT and platelet production spike), but these can be alleviated. You should make an appointment with a hematologist to discuss the best way to go about it. And do it ASAP. Hopefully he will be able to figure out the underlying cause as well.

In the meantime, do not exceed TRT doses. In fact, you should measure your serum free test and lower your dose until it is in range. You may be able to go back to juicing once you have been diagnosed by an expert and/or once you have found a phlebotomy protocol that keeps your HCT below 54 tops.

May I ask about the free testosterone comment?

Does a higher free test raise RBC's more than total test? I better stop taking boron if that is the case.

 

[GettingBackIn]

Have you considered sleep apnea? Are you taking melanotan 2?

Sleep apnea hits me when I get over 240lbs, so I try to stay under 235. Now that I’m off everything, I’m hovering around 220 and it hasn’t been an issue. My wife lets me know as soon as it is.

 

[nothuman]

Sleep apnea hits me when I get over 240lbs, so I try to stay under 235. Now that I’m off everything, I’m hovering around 220 and it hasn’t been an issue. My wife lets me know as soon as it is.

I'm just surprised your H/H hasn't gone down being off TRT. I wonder what is causing it.

 

[Stewie]

Erythropoietic stimuli is a term used to denote that there's a positive response from your kidneys to kick out erythropoietin (EPO). Erythropoiesis is a biophysiological reaction to produce more red blood cells via bone marrow.

In the bodybuilding community, especially the individual that use AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroids), one of the MOA (mechanism of actions) is to stimulate the synthesis of EPO-->red blood cells.

Hypoxia is a term used to denote a reduction of oxygen supply or low oxygen environment. When this occurs this stimulates erythropoietin--> increased red blood cell production. Think of it as a demand and need situation when our bodies experience low levels of oxygen. Unfortunately, our bodies can't differentiate the actual need when there's a sufficient supply of erythrocytes (red blood cells). It's just a physiologically reaction when our bodies sense lower than normal oxygen intake.

Proliferation denotes as an expeditious increase in any particular thing being discussed. In this case, red blood cells. Such as the aforementioned about our thyroid playing a role in the proliferation of red blood cells. There's some belief (mixed literature) that hyperthyroidism can influence an increased rate of red blood cells maturation. In contrast, hypothyroidism slows this process down, in which leads to anemia.

Edit: typo

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

May I ask about the free testosterone comment?

Does a higher free test raise RBC's more than total test? I better stop taking boron if that is the case.

The higher free test, the higher serum (and tissue) DHT levels. DHT being a much more potent AR agonist, this will increase EPO production in the kidneys.

EDIT: By the way, this goes back to my suggestion earlier to try (low dose) 5alpha reductase inhibitors. Or alternatively to replace some of your test with nandrolone (with nandrolone at, say, 20% of the total dose).

 

[jayl19]

Sitting at an HCT of 58+ for prolonged periods of time is a very bad idea. It will increase your stroke risk acutely and predispose you for atherosclerosis down the line. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225673/

Blood donations do have a place in situations like this. Yes, there a drawbacks (e.g. iron deficiency, HCT and platelet production spike), but these can be alleviated. You should make an appointment with a hematologist to discuss the best way to go about it. And do it ASAP. Hopefully he will be able to figure out the underlying cause as well.

In the meantime, do not exceed TRT doses. In fact, you should measure your serum free test and lower your dose until it is in range. You may be able to go back to juicing once you have been diagnosed by an expert and/or once you have found a phlebotomy protocol that keeps your HCT below 54 tops.

Thanks for this, made me realise how dumb I was being and made me reconsider

I think doing what pickapeck said would be best, getting off gear all together and starting hcg/clomid then retest in 4/5 weeks

If it’s still high I can take the report to my gp, if I go while on trt he will only tell me to come off it and retest anyway, plus I don’t want steroids on my nhs profile in case it affects my life insurance, so they will be out my system by then anyway

Thanks again everyone

 

[nothuman]

I wonder if the HCT increase from frequent donations eventually diminishes if the person stops donating after a while.

Anyone have first hand experience with going from being a frequent donor to not donating anymore?