Well hoped to not ever have to post this, heart problems help

[Black Beard]

Well all finally went to the Dr because of some chest pains and my fear confirmed.. looks like there are some heart abnormalities from the EKG.

So this is a long story, but having some symptoms and after lethargy n shortness of breath so need to know what are next steps from others who have had this issue.

Dr says I have left ventricle issues this far. They are going to do a chemical stress test and another test that I am waiting for. They pulled labs which I do every 6months anyway. Dont have them back yet. Here is some info below....

42 years old 5ft 10 244pounds 18%BF.
Always had high BP ,but lately its averaged 160-180 over 100/130. Very very high stress job. Also family history.
Cholesterol is total 205, but HDL n LDL always been bad.
Just started high BP meds n a statin.

Gear- 600mg test cyp/500mg Primo/ 50mg proviron daily.
Been cutting past 8weeks.

This year have run test up to 900mg and 8 weeks tren at 150mg per week.

I used to cycle 20 years ago, only started back when I started TRT at 40. Only ran test at high doses up to 900mg nothing else except arimidex 3times a week Nolva 3 times a week.

I dont know if gear has caused any of this. I am worried about blockage in the arteries. BP has been a concern.

So is there any tests I should ask for? Can i check for Heart health? Can they run dye in the arteries to check for plaque buildup?

Just not sure what to ask for or what to do next. I am droppin test to my TRT dose of 300mg. Primo i stopped not sure if it affects heart at all. Proviron same dont know whether to start back.

Any help would be appreciated. Will report labs when I get them.

Thanks

I say it all the time, Labs don't show you the true damage that AAS cause and i was attacked for it in the other thread.


Controlling BP/HCT is important, and EKG/Calcium scoring/stress test/cardiac cath and other imaging to keep an eye on rhythym, structure, and plaque build up, the true killers. You only have to do this annually or once every couple of years.


Blood work will only show you HCT%/HGB, HDL and a few other things. HCT is a risk factor for clots and plaque build up when very high. You may also see low HDL , another possible risk factor, but mostly everything else is invisible.


People on and off steroids get heart problems. There is a very strong genetic component to cardiovascular pathologies, but steroids increase the risk of problems through many different mechanisms you won't see on blood work.

 

[MethodAir]

To me he should order an echocardiogram, see what your pumping ability is. Ejection fraction and wall motion,etc. Sounds like you probably have cardiomyopathy.

I developed that and got off all the shit and within about 11 months my heart was back to normal.

Then I went back on steroids and had a heart attack! Smart me.

Were your arteries normal, 11 months after you initially came off gear, when you claim your heart function returned to normal?

Did you have coronary artery imaging to verify this at about that time?

 

[MethodAir]

I say it all the time, Labs don't show you the true damage that AAS cause and i was attacked for it in the other thread.


Controlling BP/HCT is important, and EKG/Calcium scoring/stress test/cardiac cath and other imaging to keep an eye on rhythym, structure, and plaque build up, the true killers. You only have to do this annually or once every couple of years.


Blood work will only show you HCT%/HGB, HDL and a few other things. HCT is a risk factor for clots and plaque build up when very high. You may also see low HDL , another possible risk factor, but mostly everything else is invisible.

No, this is false. As I mentioned before, there are many other blood markers used in the diagnosis and treatment of heart conditions.

For example, a cardiologist can quickly determine that a patient is critically hypotensive in cardiogenic shock, based largely on BUN to cr and ALT readings.

This is fact, not opinion. Dr. Vyselaar, lead cardiologist of Lions Gate Hospital in Vancouver does this in the following recorded consult at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJmOZqba7V4

The bloodwork he reviewed during this consult is also available at https://steemit.com/undisclosed/@me...l-a-yashar-tashakkor-michael-perchinsky-chris

 

[johnjuanb1]

Thanks again for the response and thoughts. I can tell everyone that I fucked up and really didnt realize the issues that BP caused. It's always ran high, and honestly was just stupid about it. Really hate it, but feel lucky got some warning signs.

A lot of you have had similar as well, so really appreciate the help.

I certainly am learning a painful lesson in regards to all this. U were right earlier and I am carrying to much weight/BF. Going to try and drop 20-30pounds of this fat and get these levels in check.

Also getting aggressive on the statin and BP meds. Right now its Lisinopril +diuretic right now while waiting for labs to come back. Will post those when I get them.

Has your blood pressure improved from the bp meds yet?

Did you ask if they could run a die through your blood pathways to check for blockages? I’d like that too. They can knock out the plague with angioplasty.

For me, whether I’m on gear or not it’s my body weight that determines my bp.
My body wants to be 180Lbs but I like being 233Lbs.
My bp is the same now on gear as it was off.
It’s high now because I weigh 50Lbs more than my genetics allow for to maintain proper bp.

 

[MethodAir]

For me, whether I’m on gear or not it’s my body weight that determines my bp.

I concur...500-600 mg AAS with normal BP, keeping body weight down. No coronary lesions, so the risk of CAD is very low (BP 116/65 hr: 69 yesterday)

 

[Black Beard]

No, this is false. As I mentioned before, there are many other blood markers used in the diagnosis and treatment of heart conditions.

For example, a cardiologist can quickly determine that a patient is critically hypotensive in cardiogenic shock, based largely on BUN to cr and ALT readings.

This is fact, not opinion. Dr. Vyselaar, lead cardiologist of Lions Gate Hospital in Vancouver does this in the following recorded consult at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJmOZqba7V4

The bloodwork he reviewed during this consult is also available at https://steemit.com/undisclosed/@me...l-a-yashar-tashakkor-michael-perchinsky-chris

Keywords being "critically hypotensive" and "cardiogenic shock" ie. an acute problem. We are talking about prevention and chronic issues. What you mention is an acute problem.


You can use things like BNP to look for signs of CHF but as studies have shown, it's not a definitive test for the condition. You need to look at the actual ejection fraction. I'm not saying blood work is useless, i'm saying it's giving guys a false sense of security which this thread shows in perfect example. The basic routine labs guys are using especially isn't enough to know what's happening "under the hood".

 

[MethodAir]

Keywords being "critically hypotensive" and "cardiogenic shock" ie. an acute problem. We are talking about prevention and chronic issues. What you mention is an acute problem.

You can use things like BNP to look for signs of CHF but as studies have shown, it's not a definitive test for the condition. You need to look at the actual ejection fraction. I'm not saying blood work is useless, i'm saying it's giving guys a false sense of security which this thread shows in perfect example. The basic routine labs guys are using especially isn't enough to know what's happening "under the hood".

You can have a high ejection fraction and severe coronary artery disease, thus cardiologists also use blood readings like BNP to determine if cardiac lesions are present, for all types of cardiac conditions (chronic or acute).

 

[MethodAir]

Blood work will only show you HCT%/HGB, HDL and a few other things. HCT is a risk factor for clots and plaque build up when very high. You may also see low HDL , another possible risk factor, but mostly everything else is invisible.


People on and off steroids get heart problems. There is a very strong genetic component to cardiovascular pathologies, but steroids increase the risk of problems through many different mechanisms you won't see on blood work.

The whole system is interconnected, thus a cardiologist is going to pay close attention to kidney function when determining cardiac issues. Chronic high blood pressure, likely elevated creatinine from kidney damage. Acute hypotension/volume overload, low proportionate creatinine to BUN, from a lack of blood flow to the kidneys.

 

[maldorf]

BTW - my test from low T is the local compounding pharmacy and its 300mg shot I do once every 7 days. Will have to go to Dr and get the 100mg or so to keep my levels 800-900 which I assume is safe?

I had the test pulled at 6 days post shot is what they did there on levels.

BP that day was like 138/98.

ok, that makes sense then why it wasn't so much higher. It was probably 2x that a day or two after the shot. It peaks early. Im guessing it is cyionate?

Ive never had my level tested 6 days after, but 1 or 2 days mine is usually around 850ish. I don't even feel like it is too low by the end of the week. That is with me doing 100 mg every sunday morning. So once a week.

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf I did not have a heart attack,not yet at least. I do have irregular beats every now and then. I have no idea what my ejection fraction is wither. I see my cardiologist next friday,I'll ask him.

Oh, ok. For some reason I thought I read that you had one. That is great then. Hopefully your ejection fraction is normal then, up around 60%. Endurance athletes can have them up over 70% from what I have heard. The echocardiogram is how you usually get that number. If you do one of those nuclear tracer tests done it will show as well.

 

[maldorf]

Were your arteries normal, 11 months after you initially came off gear, when you claim your heart function returned to normal?

Did you have coronary artery imaging to verify this at about that time?

They did a nuclear test, I think a muga scan, and if I remember right it was on the treadmill. I never had an angiogram or anything with my arteries at that time.

The diagnosis was idiopathic cardiomyopathy. My heart was somewhat enlarged and I think the walls were stiff. The wall motion was very poor. My ejection fraction was about 35%. 11 months off everything and it got back up to 55%! Echo showed normal wall motion etc. He gave me a clear bill of health and I didn't go back to see him again. He said I didn't need to worry about it again. I told him I would never use steroids again. I lied!

Even when I finally had my heart attack there was no narrowing of any of my coronary arteries, all were normal in the angiogram they gave me while I was having a heart attack. the heart attack was caused by a blood clot in my right coronary. Once they sucked it out it was all clear. THe doc tried to put in a stent, I guess just because that is normal procedure, and he didn't have any that were wide enough to fit my artery! He seemed like he was amazed, like it was the first time he had seen that. Good doc too, graduated from Harvard.

 

[maldorf]

No, this is false. As I mentioned before, there are many other blood markers used in the diagnosis and treatment of heart conditions.

For example, a cardiologist can quickly determine that a patient is critically hypotensive in cardiogenic shock, based largely on BUN to cr and ALT readings.

This is fact, not opinion. Dr. Vyselaar, lead cardiologist of Lions Gate Hospital in Vancouver does this in the following recorded consult at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJmOZqba7V4

The bloodwork he reviewed during this consult is also available at https://steemit.com/undisclosed/@me...l-a-yashar-tashakkor-michael-perchinsky-chris

When I was close to heart failure, ef of 35%, I had zero indicators in my blood. They could not figure out what had caused my trouble and the only signs I am aware of were my symptoms and the echo results.

 

[MethodAir]

When I was close to heart failure, ef of 35%, I had zero indicators in my blood. They could not figure out what had caused my trouble and the only signs I am aware of were my symptoms and the echo results.

That would make sense, because it doesn't appear that you had any cardiac lesions at that time, and your heart function was sufficient to warrant a muga stress test. The massive loss of cardiomyocytes, and consequent spikes in cardiac markers would have been apparent after your massive heart attack.

Now with a 20% ejection fraction, they will be closely monitoring your kidney/hepatic/respiratory/cardiac function via labs and other tests, given the heightened risk of cardiogenic shock.

 

[maldorf]

That would make sense, because it doesn't appear that you had any cardiac lesions at that time, and your heart function was sufficient to warrant a muga stress test. The massive loss of cardiomyocytes, and consequent spikes in cardiac markers would have been apparent after your heart attack.

Now with a 20% ejection fraction, they will be closely monitoring your kidney/cardiac function via labs, given the heightened risk of cardiogenic shock.

Exactly right. This is what I want to point out. You can be near heart failure like I was and the labs don't support it. Who knows how long I had been going downhill like that, and I was juicing all along. If I had known my heart was failing then I would have laid off at least some. Having blood tests all clear doesn't mean you have a healthy heart, not necessarily.

I asked the cardiologist if he knew what had happened to my heart when I had the cardiomyopathy, this was years before my heart attack. He said that the steroids affect the metabolism of the heart for one, I think there is some remodeling that might happen. Whatever it was, it made my walls stiff and unable to squeeze the blood.

 

[MethodAir]

Exactly right. This is what I want to point out. You can be near heart failure like I was and the labs don't support it. Who knows how long I had been going downhill like that, and I was juicing all along. If I had known my heart was failing then I would have laid off at least some. Having blood tests all clear doesn't mean you have a healthy heart, not necessarily.

I asked the cardiologist if he knew what had happened to my heart when I had the cardiomyopathy, this was years before my heart attack. He said that the steroids affect the metabolism of the heart for one, I think there is some remodeling that might happen. Whatever it was, it made my walls stiff and unable to squeeze the blood.

Did you also mention that you had a genetic clotting disorder?

 

[MethodAir]

Exactly right. This is what I want to point out. You can be near heart failure like I was and the labs don't support it.

More to the point, the labs supported the fact that there were no cardiac lesions, and that you were still largely functional in stage A compensated heart failure before your heart attack. Some people could run a marathon in this compensated state, and never know they have a problem.

 

[MethodAir]

Having blood tests all clear doesn't mean you have a healthy heart, not necessarily.

Correct, but similarly, neither does an echocardiogram that shows a 65% ejection fraction with perfect wall motion and heart valves. Thus, you need imaging and blood tests.

There are many possibilities:

- end-stage heart failure with a 15% ejection fraction and no coronary artery disease
- end-stage heart failure with a 65% ejection fraction and normal arteries
- no heart failure with a 65% ejection fraction and severe coronary artery disease

 

[nothuman]

Correct, but similarly, neither does an echocardiogram that shows a 65% ejection fraction with perfect wall motion and heart valves. Thus, you need imaging and blood tests.

There are many possibilities:

- end-stage heart failure with a 15% ejection fraction and no coronary artery disease
- end-stage heart failure with a 65% ejection fraction and normal arteries
- no heart failure with a 65% ejection fraction and severe coronary artery disease

Yep, ejection fraction can be normal and you can still have diastolic heart failure. Another reason why nt pro-bnp is a great test as you alluded to.

 

[qbkilla]

I concur...500-600 mg AAS with normal BP, keeping body weight down. No coronary lesions, so the risk of CAD is very low (BP 116/65 hr: 69 yesterday)

This. There are guys 190lbs who abuse gear, we dont see them dying. My bp is amazing, my doses are high, but I dont weigh over 200.

I fully believe all the negative health problems bbers have are 90% from being overweight (be it muscle or fat) not from aas

A guy who bulks from 180 to 220 at 1g test harmed his health more than a guy who bulked from 180 to 196 at 2g test 1g tren 900mg deca. This is my honest opinion. Carrying a shit ton of weight is harder on organs than some aas.

 

[Knight9]

ok, that makes sense then why it wasn't so much higher. It was probably 2x that a day or two after the shot. It peaks early. Im guessing it is cyionate?

Ive never had my level tested 6 days after, but 1 or 2 days mine is usually around 850ish. I don't even feel like it is too low by the end of the week. That is with me doing 100 mg every sunday morning. So once a week.

I believe cypionate and enanthate would have optimal testing times approx 4 days after the shot. Wouldnt that be the leveled peak?

Although this is off on a tangent, I believe 1 or 2 days is too soon and 6 to 7 days is too long.

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