Well hoped to not ever have to post this, heart problems help

[maldorf]

Did you also mention that you had a genetic clotting disorder?

Yes, prothrombin disorder which is factor 2. This was discovered after the heart attack. I insisted my cardiologist test me for clotting factors and sure enough. I then had my family tested for it. My mother has it and I passed it off to one of my daughters.

We didn't even know it was in the family because nobody ever had this happen like I did. My mother is 80 years old and never had a single clot. It appears the combo of steroids and the clotting factor were what caused my clot. I was squatting really heavy when I had my heart attack. We think I might have blown a small piece of plaque off the artery and then that started the crazy clotting. Will never know for sure. I don't think it was just a coincidence that the heart attack happened when I was squatting with 455.

 

[MethodAir]

Yes, prothrombin disorder which is factor 2. This was discovered after the heart attack. I insisted my cardiologist test me for clotting factors and sure enough. I then had my family tested for it. My mother has it and I passed it off to one of my daughters.

We didn't even know it was in the family because nobody ever had this happen like I did. My mother is 80 years old and never had a single clot. It appears the combo of steroids and the clotting factor were what caused my clot. I was squatting really heavy when I had my heart attack. We think I might have blown a small piece of plaque off the artery and then that started the crazy clotting. Will never know for sure. I don't think it was just a coincidence that the heart attack happened when I was squatting with 455.

I see. That is unfortunate. Now it makes sense why the cardiologist would try and blame the heart attack on steroids, given the initial oversight. As we know, steroids and warfarin can actually work synergistically to reduce the risk of clotting. And you appeared to have big, open coronary arteries too, which shakes the 'aas/clogged arteries/hypertension' hypothesis. Evidently an unusually large blood clot.

 

[NEMSZ]

This. There are guys 190lbs who abuse gear, we dont see them dying. My bp is amazing, my doses are high, but I dont weigh over 200.

I fully believe all the negative health problems bbers have are 90% from being overweight (be it muscle or fat) not from aas

A guy who bulks from 180 to 220 at 1g test harmed his health more than a guy who bulked from 180 to 196 at 2g test 1g tren 900mg deca. This is my honest opinion. Carrying a shit ton of weight is harder on organs than some aas.

No offense bro but that’s a pretty delusional post...

Obese people aren’t dropping dead in their 20’s-40’s, so being overweight, although a health issue, is definitely not as dangerous as slamming 3-4 grams of gear and 1 gram of it being Tren.. I don’t care what your weight is or what supps you take...

They’ve done studies of Testosterone going upwards of 600mg with no real bad side effects. I’d be willing to bet a guy being 220lbs at 5’10 on 1g Test has way healthier blood work and is way healthier in general than the guy who weighs less on 4 grams of gear if they were to do the same things (food, rest, supps, cardio etc)

Have you ever seen bloodwork on Tren? I have, and it’s not pretty at all... That shit wrecks blood work, the kidneys, heart, lipids and not to mention what we’ve recently found out about it’s effect on the brain...

Now is it possible that other hormones can effect a person to that degree as well if abused? Absolutely! But I’d be my last $1,000 that there’s significantly more leeway with Testosterone than anything else..

So comparing 1g of Test to 4 grams of gear with some harsh compounds in there and blaming health issues in a simple 20lbs extra is again, ridiculous..

 

[maldorf]

I believe cypionate and enanthate would have optimal testing times approx 4 days after the shot. Wouldnt that be the leveled peak?

Although this is off on a tangent, I believe 1 or 2 days is too soon and 6 to 7 days is too long.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Most say it peaks at around 48 hours after injection. This article shows that it may even be closer to day 1.https://www.peaktestosterone.com/When_Testosterone_Cypionate_Peak.aspx

 

[maldorf]

I see. That is unfortunate. Now it makes sense why the cardiologist would try and blame the heart attack on steroids, given the initial oversight.

LOL, try and blame it on steroids? It was the steroids. May not have happened it I didn't have the trait, but having the trait rarely leads to what I had happen to me. Like I said, nobody in my family has ever had a clot. Im the first one. It isn't a coincidence that I am the only one that has ever taken steroids.

I look at it like the steroid were the spark that lit the fuel on fire, or vice versa. The combo.

 

[MethodAir]

It was the steroids...Im the first one. It isn't a coincidence that I am the only one that has ever taken steroids.

And how many other people in your family were squatting 455+ with your clotting disorder? That alone sounds like a ticking time bomb.

Like you suggested yourself, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

[qbkilla]

No offense bro but that’s a pretty delusional post...

Obese people aren’t dropping dead in their 20’s-40’s, so being overweight, although a health issue, is definitely not as dangerous as slamming 3-4 grams of gear and 1 gram of it being Tren.. I don’t care what your weight is or what supps you take...

They’ve done studies of Testosterone going upwards of 600mg with no real bad side effects. I’d be willing to bet a guy being 220lbs at 5’10 on 1g Test has way healthier blood work and is way healthier in general than the guy who weighs less on 4 grams of gear if they were to do the same things (food, rest, supps, cardio etc)

Have you ever seen bloodwork on Tren? I have, and it’s not pretty at all... That shit wrecks blood work, the kidneys, heart, lipids and not to mention what we’ve recently found out about it’s effect on the brain...

Now is it possible that other hormones can effect a person to that degree as well if abused? Absolutely! But I’d be my last $1,000 that there’s significantly more leeway with Testosterone than anything else..

So comparing 1g of Test to 4 grams of gear with some harsh compounds in there and blaming health issues in a simple 20lbs extra is again, ridiculous..

your using extremes to try and argue that being VERY overweight is healthier than using a good bit more gear

Im talking 2g vs 1g, not 4g vs 1g

This like me saying 175lbs vs 450lbs to try and make my point

I again would say bulking up and going from 190 to 205 on 2g is heather than bulking from 190 to 235 on 1g,,,BY FAR


I have used tren, winny, 1g test all at once, did tons of cardio, kept my weight under control and Bloodwork and BP was perfect


I also weighed 240lbs and used only 1g of test and had high blood pressure and felt pain in my chest, couldn't do cardio my legs went numb


255lbs at 18% is obese basically, 255lbs at 10 percent may not be obese but it may or may not be stressing the organs equally

I see tons of huge guys who we speculate are on alot of gear dropping dead but only do I see the lean fit guys dropping dead when rec drugs are involved, this is jus what I see on forums

Being MASSIVE IS NOT HEALTHY, I WOULD ARGUE much more unhealthy than abusing gear only, not stims, but gear only

At the very least it is an interesting discussion, but I stand by my opinion. Gear does not trash my bloodwork at all

 

[NEMSZ]

your using extremes to try and argue that being VERY overweight is healthier than using a good bit more gear

Im talking 2g vs 1g, not 4g vs 1g

This like me saying 175lbs vs 450lbs to try and make my point

I again would say bulking up and going from 190 to 205 on 2g is heather than bulking from 190 to 235 on 1g,,,BY FAR


I have used tren, winny, 1g test all at once, did tons of cardio, kept my weight under control and Bloodwork and BP was perfect


I also weighed 240lbs and used only 1g of test and had high blood pressure and felt pain in my chest, couldn't do cardio my legs went numb


255lbs at 18% is obese basically, 255lbs at 10 percent may not be obese but it may or may not be stressing the organs equally

I see tons of huge guys who we speculate are on alot of gear dropping dead but only do I see the lean fit guys dropping dead when rec drugs are involved, this is jus what I see on forums

Being MASSIVE IS NOT HEALTHY, I WOULD ARGUE much more unhealthy than abusing gear only, not stims, but gear only

At the very least it is an interesting discussion, but I stand by my opinion. Gear does not trash my bloodwork at all

No bro, YOU are changing numbers and going to extremes to justify your point..

1) Your OP clearly said; “ a guy bulking to 220lbs from 180lbs vs a guy going to 196lbs from 180lbs” and you just changed it to “190-205lbs vs 190-235lbs”...

Given if these guys aren’t extremely short I don’t see a problem with a guy weighing 220lbs on 1g Test if they’re approaching it healthy..

2) In your OP you laid out a cycle of 2g Test, 1g Tren, 900mg Deca.... Now you’re changing it to 2g of gear and being general...

3) Do you have bloodwork to post while on those harsh compounds? Let me guess, no you don’t.. Just like every single guy who says they have perfect bloodwork on Tren but no one ever posts it...

I was addressing exactly what you said, you’re the one changing things now to fit your narrative...

Just because YOU don’t get side effects or bad bloodwork (again, zero proof and no I don’t believe it unless I see it but let’s say you’re telling the truth) on high doses or harsh compounds doesn’t mean it’s a blanket statement that 1g of Test and being 20lbs heavier is what causes heart failure and bad bloodwork etc... That’s ridiculous... If you would’ve said;

“a guy weighing 200lbs @ 5’10 on higher doses (not the crazy cycle you laid out) vs a guy being 5’7 @ 260-280lbs+ on 1g of Test might be healthier because less stress on the heart and other organs etc”

Ok, I would’ve understood that but you made some ridiculous examples and then deemed them as a one size fits all scenario...

 

[qbkilla]

No bro, YOU are changing numbers and going to extremes to justify your point..

1) Your OP clearly said; “ a guy bulking to 220lbs from 180lbs vs a guy going to 196lbs from 180lbs” and you just changed it to “190-205lbs vs 190-235lbs”...

Given if these guys aren’t extremely short I don’t see a problem with a guy weighing 220lbs on 1g Test if they’re approaching it healthy..

2) In your OP you laid out a cycle of 2g Test, 1g Tren, 900mg Deca.... Now you’re changing it to 2g of gear and being general...

3) Do you have bloodwork to post while on those harsh compounds? Let me guess, no you don’t.. Just like every single guy who says they have perfect bloodwork on Tren but no one ever posts it...

I was addressing exactly what you said, you’re the one changing things now to fit your narrative...

Just because YOU don’t get side effects or bad bloodwork (again, zero proof and no I don’t believe it unless I see it but let’s say you’re telling the truth) on high doses or harsh compounds doesn’t mean it’s a blanket statement that 1g of Test and being 20lbs heavier is what causes heart failure and bad bloodwork etc... That’s ridiculous... If you would’ve said;

“a guy weighing 200lbs @ 5’10 on higher doses (not the crazy cycle you laid out) vs a guy being 5’7 @ 260-280lbs+ on 1g of Test might be healthier because less stress on the heart and other organs etc”

Ok, I would’ve understood that but you made some ridiculous examples and then deemed them as a one size fits all scenario...

ummmmm, ok?

1. Well lets agree on a reasonable comparison since im sayin you gave a crazy one (4g vs 1g) and you say I changed mine some, so I have no credibility. Lets say 1g of gear vs 2g of gear, thats double the gear, is that fair?

2. Lets take a moderate weight gain (a guy who wants to grow lean, vs a guy who bulks and I would personally consider the lower limit of stressing your body). How about the guy starts at 185lbs ripped (which is damn impressive IMO if you have good insertions) and bulks up to 198 (14lbs reasonable) vs if he were to bulk to to 220.

Are 1 and 2 fair to you and not too extreme?


And in my log I was running 1g of test, 700mg tren, 500mg mast, and I started at 50mg of winny ED and got up to 150mg winny ED over about 7 or 8 weeks.

My liver values were slightly high, my cholesterol was slightly high, and I felt great, I was doing cardio every day, Nothing else was out of range. My kidney values and blood pressure, unlike when I was over 200lbs running less gear, were fine. My hematocrit is always fine, I also donate blood every 8 weeks.

You want me to post a picture to prove im not lying? It really doesn't mean that much to me that your accusing me of lying on a chat board but I guess I could if it matters that much to you? Will you then apologize to me for calling me a liar, or will you just say "oh thats not really your blood work you altered it" therefore meaning you just made me waste my own time?

Im willing to take a pic of it and post depending on what you say. Im not willing to spend the time to find out how to delete my name and actually attach it because I don't know how to do that and im not putting in the effort to research it, so you tell me what you want.

Do we have any guys here who are 180lbs to 190lbs men physique type looks who run a decent amount of gear and have horrible blood pressure and major heart problems? I know we have guys who are over 220lbs who have the above and run lower dosages. This is one reason why I say that being grossly overweight is more harmful than using dosages more than 750mg test and 600mg deca like many advocate.

 

[kreativsniks]

187-195lbs (6'') here. I think it depends on the "relative increase" of weight one has. I went from 165lbs to my current 190lbs and although, for boybuilding standards my current weight is babyweight, for my particular body, it was a big enough increase to stress my organs for a while after. My BP went up, pulse too. I believe the one must carry the newbuilt weight for a little while, so body can get used to it and all the organs (heart, liver, kidneys etc.) get used to it. It's funny, when I weigh 195lbs (a tiny 5lbs more), not 190lbs, I start to snort at night and my face looks bloated too, i never knew a couple of pounds of water/glycogen can cause this. I guess it's not so much about certain weight numbers as much as how big was the weight increase and how fast it came about. Maybe if one is growing very slowly, organs etc. get used to more gradually and health problz not so much. It's been my experience anyway.

 

[Black Beard]

When I was close to heart failure, ef of 35%, I had zero indicators in my blood. They could not figure out what had caused my trouble and the only signs I am aware of were my symptoms and the echo results.

This is exactly the point i've been trying to get across here^

This. There are guys 190lbs who abuse gear, we dont see them dying. My bp is amazing, my doses are high, but I dont weigh over 200.

I fully believe all the negative health problems bbers have are 90% from being overweight (be it muscle or fat) not from aas

A guy who bulks from 180 to 220 at 1g test harmed his health more than a guy who bulked from 180 to 196 at 2g test 1g tren 900mg deca. This is my honest opinion. Carrying a shit ton of weight is harder on organs than some aas.

AAS have direct effects on the cardiovascular system that can promote heart disease/pathology in genetically prone individuals who abuse them (Dose/time). They can cause changes in the structure of the heart like enlargement of the heart/hardening+narrowing of the arteries, promote calcification/plaque build up, etc. The extra weight might be another factor, but independent of weight, there are well-documented reasons for why AAS abuse can promote heart disease/pathology.


The guys who can handle the crazy doses for many years and live to tell the tale with minimal health consequences probably have a good mix of genetics/lifestyle/luck.

I believe cypionate and enanthate would have optimal testing times approx 4 days after the shot. Wouldnt that be the leveled peak?

Although this is off on a tangent, I believe 1 or 2 days is too soon and 6 to 7 days is too long.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

The half-life varies in individuals due to genetic differences in sex steroid metabolism. Things like SHBG/albumin levels, metabolizing enzymes (aromatase/5-alpha reductase) and levels of phosphodiesterase (PDE7B)- the enzyme that cleaves the actual esters (enanthates/cypionates/etc) just to name a few. This is why some guys can get away with every 7 day injections of cyp and others need x 2 per week to maintain physiological levels.

 

[Bio]

No bro, YOU are changing numbers and going to extremes to justify your point..

1) Your OP clearly said; “ a guy bulking to 220lbs from 180lbs vs a guy going to 196lbs from 180lbs” and you just changed it to “190-205lbs vs 190-235lbs”...

Given if these guys aren’t extremely short I don’t see a problem with a guy weighing 220lbs on 1g Test if they’re approaching it healthy..

2) In your OP you laid out a cycle of 2g Test, 1g Tren, 900mg Deca.... Now you’re changing it to 2g of gear and being general...

3) Do you have bloodwork to post while on those harsh compounds? Let me guess, no you don’t.. Just like every single guy who says they have perfect bloodwork on Tren but no one ever posts it...

I was addressing exactly what you said, you’re the one changing things now to fit your narrative...

Just because YOU don’t get side effects or bad bloodwork (again, zero proof and no I don’t believe it unless I see it but let’s say you’re telling the truth) on high doses or harsh compounds doesn’t mean it’s a blanket statement that 1g of Test and being 20lbs heavier is what causes heart failure and bad bloodwork etc... That’s ridiculous... If you would’ve said;

“a guy weighing 200lbs @ 5’10 on higher doses (not the crazy cycle you laid out) vs a guy being 5’7 @ 260-280lbs+ on 1g of Test might be healthier because less stress on the heart and other organs etc”

Ok, I would’ve understood that but you made some ridiculous examples and then deemed them as a one size fits all scenario...

ummmmm, ok?

1. Well lets agree on a reasonable comparison since im sayin you gave a crazy one (4g vs 1g) and you say I changed mine some, so I have no credibility. Lets say 1g of gear vs 2g of gear, thats double the gear, is that fair?

2. Lets take a moderate weight gain (a guy who wants to grow lean, vs a guy who bulks and I would personally consider the lower limit of stressing your body). How about the guy starts at 185lbs ripped (which is damn impressive IMO if you have good insertions) and bulks up to 198 (14lbs reasonable) vs if he were to bulk to to 220.

Are 1 and 2 fair to you and not too extreme?


And in my log I was running 1g of test, 700mg tren, 500mg mast, and I started at 50mg of winny ED and got up to 150mg winny ED over about 7 or 8 weeks.

My liver values were slightly high, my cholesterol was slightly high, and I felt great, I was doing cardio every day, Nothing else was out of range. My kidney values and blood pressure, unlike when I was over 200lbs running less gear, were fine. My hematocrit is always fine, I also donate blood every 8 weeks.

You want me to post a picture to prove im not lying? It really doesn't mean that much to me that your accusing me of lying on a chat board but I guess I could if it matters that much to you? Will you then apologize to me for calling me a liar, or will you just say "oh thats not really your blood work you altered it" therefore meaning you just made me waste my own time?

Im willing to take a pic of it and post depending on what you say. Im not willing to spend the time to find out how to delete my name and actually attach it because I don't know how to do that and im not putting in the effort to research it, so you tell me what you want.

Do we have any guys here who are 180lbs to 190lbs men physique type looks who run a decent amount of gear and have horrible blood pressure and major heart problems? I know we have guys who are over 220lbs who have the above and run lower dosages. This is one reason why I say that being grossly overweight is more harmful than using dosages more than 750mg test and 600mg deca like many advocate.

Guys take this to PM's. This argument is just generalized bro science.

 

[STUMPY]

Gentlemen,if it helps the discussion,I have lab results from blood pulled on 4/30/19. If anyone's interested I can snap pics and post the results,as well as what AAS I was running at the time. I know I was 2.5wks in of starting 100mg tren E/D. My heart issues were posted back on the 1st page.

 

[nothuman]

Someone made a thread about having heart issues and people are arguing and bickering with each other. Come on now. Not the place for that. Let's have some sympathy and try to help him out.

 

[Reload]

112/65

Telmisartan, Nebivolol, eating garlic cloves (can be raw or take the supplement), olive leaf extract, spirulina, etc. all of these have shown clear evidence of BP reduction.

I, too, failed to manage high BP in the past and faced health consequences. I’m lucky I’m alive to make up for it.

Nothuman what are your doses of both Telmisartan and Nebivolol daily? My Doc switched me from Amlodipine to Telmisartan 80mg/day a few months back. If my resting HR is in the 70's do I even need Nebivolol? Also of the above heart "supplements" you listed which do you think makes the biggest impact on lowering BP and improving heart health in general?

Getting my BP down has been a frickin battle. My PCP just seems apathetic and will say 140's/90's is ok. I'd like to get it down in the 110's/70's and keep it there!

 

[Black Beard]

Nothuman what are your doses of both Telmisartan and Nebivolol daily? My Doc switched me from Amlodipine to Telmisartan 80mg/day a few months back. If my resting HR is in the 70's do I even need Nebivolol? Also of the above heart "supplements" you listed which do you think makes the biggest impact on lowering BP and improving heart health in general?

Getting my BP down has been a frickin battle. My PCP just seems apathetic and will say 140's/90's is ok. I'd like to get it down in the 110's/70's and keep it there!

Most PCP don't care as long as you aren't dying in front of them. Anything at 140/90 mmhg or higher i would not want to be at long-term.


135/85 mmhg is where i draw the line.

 

[maldorf]

And how many other people in your family were squatting 455+ with your clotting disorder? That alone sounds like a ticking time bomb.

Like you suggested yourself, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Whatver.

 

[maldorf]

Nothuman what are your doses of both Telmisartan and Nebivolol daily? My Doc switched me from Amlodipine to Telmisartan 80mg/day a few months back. If my resting HR is in the 70's do I even need Nebivolol? Also of the above heart "supplements" you listed which do you think makes the biggest impact on lowering BP and improving heart health in general?

Getting my BP down has been a frickin battle. My PCP just seems apathetic and will say 140's/90's is ok. I'd like to get it down in the 110's/70's and keep it there!

Lisinopril has been my go to for lowering BP. I only take 5mg/day now. Ive had to cut back because my BP was too low. It always was powerful for me. That is an ACE inhibitor.

I also take Bisoprolol, that is a beta blocker designed to affect mostly the heart and lower heart rate. It doesn't affect BP too bad.

 

[maldorf]

Someone made a thread about having heart issues and people are arguing and bickering with each other. Come on now. Not the place for that. Let's have some sympathy and try to help him out.

Chris, I hope you dropped everything you are taking except for 100 mg/wk test. Let us know what test you have run and how the results turn out. You have some of us on here that are worried about you. I think once you stop all the PEDs that your heart will slowly recover.

Did the doctor warn you about exercising too hard?

 

[MethodAir]

maldorf wrote:

When I was close to heart failure, ef of 35%, I had zero indicators in my blood. They could not figure out what had caused my trouble and the only signs I am aware of were my symptoms and the echo results.

This is exactly the point i've been trying to get across here^

maldorf had a serious, undiagnosed blood indicator, a clotting disorder that threatened to put him into acute circulatory failure.

If maldorf's physicians had performed the appropriate blood tests at about the time of his initial muga stress test (including testing for his prothrombin mutation), his massive, catastrophic heart attack would likely have been prevented.