Do we really need a calories surplus to gain muscle on High Doses of AAS

[hawkmoon]

I am always late to these threads being in an opposite time-zone...
I read through most of it (skipping the back and forths) and have my own thoughts, which I think echo many here.

AAS will help you use food more efficiently for muscle building. As such, absolute food quantity gets a bit fuzzy. We all know this.
This is why Buselmo was able to get by on candy bars (I'm exaggerating, but some of you know what I mean). Physics is going to play a role at some point however.

You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of food
You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of AAS
You can reach a certain size with certain degree of training.
As @b-boy said, it's all about progression.
When your chess piece runs out of moves, you must move another to continue your advance.

Personally - and this is of course in part due to my age - I'd much rather try to push more food than drugs.
In truth, I have always been this way. When I was 20 an wanted to be a pro all I did all day was eat, train, and cook my meals.
I pushed my clean food to ridiculous levels and did not increase drugs to anything near todays gym rat levels.
I was 240 and pretty lean, and pretty strong. To me drugs have always been a facilitator or an amplifying, but not a means unto themselves.
Maybe this is why I'm still in the game and healthy at nearly 52, and I'm not really pushing anything much anymore

Everyone will make their own choices and experience their own benefits or consequences.
Looking out over the course of your life, which levers do you want to pull hardest?

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

Just get the feeling you copy and pasted most of this

Yeah, from the depths of my mind. It's akin to operating heavy machinery.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

I went to sleep at 302 last night. Woke up at 296. Thats EVERY SINGLE DAY like that.
The bigger you are, the greater the weight fluctuations.

I went to Mexico for NYE at a FULL and carb loaded 305—eating 7 meals a day. LOTS of cals.
Went to Mexico for 5 days where I ate 1-3 meals a day, very relaxed. No lifting.
The day of NYE, i ate some berries in the morning, took an adderall and forgot to eat until 3am.
I came BACK home and weighed myself at 287lbs. Did I realllly lose 18lbs of muscle or fat or all that? No.
I was flat. It was water and glycogen loss. Took me another 5 days of eating up and hit 300 again no problem.

Assuming you're not wetting the bed or getting up to piss every 30 minutes, the answer to your overnight weight loss dilemma is known in the world of human metabolism/physiology as insensible water loss. What the Fluorouracil is that? I'll explain with the simplest example. For each breath you take, you have an inhalation and an exhalation phase. The average normal tidal volume (amount of air either inhaled or exhaled during normal quiet respiration) is ~500 mL. There is some basic physics involved due to the change in temperature as air moves from inside body (warmer) to outside the body (cooler) but you are basically breathing out water. On average, the adult breaths ~12 x per minute while asleep. Now do the math and you've got your answer.


Postscript: I suppose I copied and pasted this intellectual property from somewhere also too.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Assuming you're not wetting the bed or getting up to piss every 30 minutes, the answer to your overnight weight loss dilemma is known in the world of human metabolism/physiology as insensible water loss. What the Fluorouracil is that? I'll explain with the simplest example. For each breath you take, you have an inhalation and an exhalation phase. The average normal tidal volume (amount of air either inhaled or exhaled during normal quiet respiration) is ~500 mL. There is some basic physics involved due to the change in temperature as air moves from inside body (warmer) to outside the body (cooler) but you are basically breathing out water. On average, the adult breaths ~12 x per minute while asleep. Now do the math and you've got your answer.


Postscript: I suppose I copied and pasted this intellectual property from somewhere also too.

What about calories used for repairing muscles? Do they get released into heat and destroyed and you get lighter?

Sounds like I’m either smart...or a complete dumbass

 

[jaxino]

I went to sleep at 302 last night. Woke up at 296. Thats EVERY SINGLE DAY like that.
The bigger you are, the greater the weight fluctuations.

I went to Mexico for NYE at a FULL and carb loaded 305—eating 7 meals a day. LOTS of cals.
Went to Mexico for 5 days where I ate 1-3 meals a day, very relaxed. No lifting.
The day of NYE, i ate some berries in the morning, took an adderall and forgot to eat until 3am.
I came BACK home and weighed myself at 287lbs. Did I realllly lose 18lbs of muscle or fat or all that? No.
I was flat. It was water and glycogen loss. Took me another 5 days of eating up and hit 300 again no problem.

Jeeezzz man you are a big mofo!!

Sorry for the OT but are still.

VERY dependant on the person.

I've found, that in my case, I need to eat PAST hunger. Eating when I'm hungry can get me decent gains and maintenance. But in order to go, you need to be a food processing machine. Every 2-3 hours, you need to be consuming SOMETHING. For some guys it's 350 cals in those 2-3 hours, for others its 1200. Either way, you need to be fueling yourself to build.
What usually happens is that you'll keep eating for weeks on end and your bf will creep up too high for you to be comfortable with. Once again, that is very individual AND it depends on what you're running. This was one of the first offseasons when I was realllly shoveling food and never got "out of control" BF % wise.

Like someone mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I have yet to meet a MASSIVE BBer who isn't eating allll the time.

I would like that it was so simple for me.... My hunger tanked since i can't workout in a gym due to Covid lockdowns.. .And i even do 30-45mins spinbike ed... Maybe i have just to suck it and lean down.

Back on topic, when you start eating a lot it's hard to learn what is just water and what is fat.
I also noticed that Tren even at 350mg ew can lower my hunger substantially and i end up or forcing the food or eating a lot less. I don't understand why Anadrol makes me hungry AF... Maybe it has to do with my naturally low hematocrit.

 

[Stewie]

Just get the feeling you copy and pasted most of this

Being I Know the individual you are responding to personally.

I can I can guarantee you he did not copy and paste that! 100%


If I showed you some of the conversations we've had over the years between our personal text messages, your brain would melt. And that's saying that kindly.

Our phone conversations have been equally the same.

 

[Stewie]

Just get the feeling you copy and pasted most of this

Not that I need to be validated.

Here's a useful tool if you ever think someone isn't being original by checking their verbage for plagiarism.

Copy and paste the content. Wait a few seconds, presto, your suspicions await at your fingertips.

Plagiarism Checker Free | Accurate with Percentage

Plagiarism checker free and accurately detects copyright content from assignments or Documents with 0$ cost and ONE-click essay checker.

plagiarismdetector.net

 

[hawkmoon]

Not that I need to be validated.

Here's a useful tool if you ever think someone isn't being original by checking their verbage for plagiarism.

Copy and paste the content. Wait a few seconds, presto, your suspicions await at your fingertips.

Plagiarism Checker Free | Accurate with Percentage

Plagiarism checker free and accurately detects copyright content from assignments or Documents with 0$ cost and ONE-click essay checker.

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Off topic, but these kind of tools are very useful for me when reviewing research written by some of my peers.

 

[N.L....M.....]

Not that I need to be validated.

Here's a useful tool if you ever think someone isn't being original by checking their verbage for plagiarism.

Copy and paste the content. Wait a few seconds, presto, your suspicions await at your fingertips.

Plagiarism Checker Free | Accurate with Percentage

Plagiarism checker free and accurately detects copyright content from assignments or Documents with 0$ cost and ONE-click essay checker.

plagiarismdetector.net

Thanks for the link that’s very cool. This is the internet so it’s hard to read tone but I was actually just joking

 

[Stewie]

Thanks for the link that’s very cool. This is the internet so it’s hard to read tone but I was actually just joking

My apologies If i came across brash with my previous replies. I'm navigating unconsciously on caffeine and adrenaline haven't slept so to speak of for a few days now. My brother passed away a week ago today, his funeral is today 6 hours away.

Mother nature wasn't too friendly with flights throughout the Midwest yesterday. As it is, my daughter flew in from NY to Chicago which got delayed several hours. She wasn't able to board her connecting flight to the airport within a mile from my house. Around 730 last night I drove up to O'hare which was 7 hours roundtrip. We're back to driving 6 hours to the funeral.


As it may be. Pissbrain and I have been chit-chatting off and on several times last night throughout early this morning. He had mentioned the conversion between you two (in a respectable manner) which brought me to here. Not that he needs a defense team, as he's capable of fortification without the voice of others.

Thinking the added mental stimulation would keep my eyes open, although hasn't faired well with acuity or responsiveness.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of food
You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of AAS
You can reach a certain size with certain degree of training.
As @b-boy said, it's all about progression.
When your chess piece runs out of moves, you must move another to continue your advance.

Personally - and this is of course in part due to my age - I'd much rather try to push more food than drugs.

That last line rings true man. And it's a Dante belief too.
We've always see Dusty talk about how fffseason (growth) is where you should be progressively pushing food and training as the main factors, not the drugs.

Either way, if you want a fantastic BBer-looking physique, you HAVE to progress on all 3 (drugs, food and training).

 

[Bleed]

This post is sticky material.

I am always late to these threads being in an opposite time-zone...
I read through most of it (skipping the back and forths) and have my own thoughts, which I think echo many here.

AAS will help you use food more efficiently for muscle building. As such, absolute food quantity gets a bit fuzzy. We all know this.
This is why Buselmo was able to get by on candy bars (I'm exaggerating, but some of you know what I mean). Physics is going to play a role at some point however.

You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of food
You can reach a certain size with a certain amount of AAS
You can reach a certain size with certain degree of training.
As @b-boy said, it's all about progression.
When your chess piece runs out of moves, you must move another to continue your advance.

Personally - and this is of course in part due to my age - I'd much rather try to push more food than drugs.
In truth, I have always been this way. When I was 20 an wanted to be a pro all I did all day was eat, train, and cook my meals.
I pushed my clean food to ridiculous levels and did not increase drugs to anything near todays gym rat levels.
I was 240 and pretty lean, and pretty strong. To me drugs have always been a facilitator or an amplifying, but not a means unto themselves.
Maybe this is why I'm still in the game and healthy at nearly 52, and I'm not really pushing anything much anymore

Everyone will make their own choices and experience their own benefits or consequences.
Looking out over the course of your life, which levers do you want to pull hardest?

 

[fitnessmuscle]

This is like the modern day myth of lean bulking - just eat a 300 calorie surplus and you can stay ripped all year and gain muscle. Yeah, and you'll gain maybe 10lbs. over 10 years and your physique will always look the same.

Big amounts of physique-changing muscle take big amounts of food, end of story. AAS are just a supplement, they don't do much without the raw materials to build the muscle.

How much calorie surplus do you think is ideal to gain maximum muscle ?

 

[Bleed]

Depends. Who are you? This isnt a wise ass response btw. There's no single answer.

How much calorie surplus do you think is ideal to gain maximum muscle ?

 

[danieltx]

How much calorie surplus do you think is ideal to gain maximum muscle ?

I have absolutely no clue and most other big guys couldn't tell you either. I know everyone wants a magic formula to get results, here's the closest thing to that:

• Diet down to a legit 6% body fat
• When ready to break diet, increase daily calories by 500-1,000
• When weight gain slows, add more calories

Seriously, just eat a ton and train hard. As GH15 once said 'You think Jay Cutler was walking around with measuring spoons?' NO - we eat eat eat, and after 5-6 months we finally start getting bodybuilder fat (not civilian fat) so we diet down and do the process again.

I think the biggest problems guys have with gaining is they're not willing to get a little fat to maximize muscle gains and they can't handle the amount of food it takes on a daily basis to do it. Think I'm kidding? Here's my bulking diet from last year - https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-7-000-calorie-bulking-diet-at-270lbs.166050/

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Dead on danieltx.

Bodybuilding is fuckin tough because you have to:
1. Be uncomfortably big for a large chunk of the year.
2. Be uncomfortably big for a large chunk of the year....for MULTIPLE years on end, in order to gain the muscle to look the way you wanna look.

Yes, there will always be the genetic freaks who gain LBM and stillll stay freakishly sub 9%. Those are the complete outliers so never think that's the norm. The rest of us have to train our ass off + push our bodies past the "look great" mark. We have to get a little pudge. And most peope dont want that at all. And after years and years of this, you learn stuff and your offseasons gaining phases look less and less pudge. My offseason now vs in my mid 20's is VERY different body composition and diet wise.

 

[Bleed]

And after years and years of this, you learn stuff and your offseasons gaining phases look less and less pudge. My offseason now vs in my mid 20's is VERY different body composition and diet wise.

This right here. This last year my 270 was tighter than previous. At 252 now I am tighter than I was at my last visit to 252.

 

[buck]

After spending many nights in a tent I am well aware of how much moisture a body can give off from sweat and breathing from the condensation on the inside of the tent.

 

[Bandy0974]

I found that for myself, bulking up too much offseason didnt translate to onstage weight
(At least in condition). Instead of bulking excessively I kept my diet a bit cleaner very high protein and gradually increased dose aas through dieting phase. Was able to gain muscle while prepping up until maybe a month. I know this is different than the initial 15 years spent gaining the base size though.

 

[Golden]

I found that for myself, bulking up too much offseason didnt translate to onstage weight
(At least in condition). Instead of bulking excessively I kept my diet a bit cleaner very high protein and gradually increased dose aas through dieting phase. Was able to gain muscle while prepping up until maybe a month. I know this is different than the initial 15 years spent gaining the base size though.

How high on the protein?