Effective progressive overload methods for advanced

[luki7788]

I think it could be an interesting topic to discuss and learn from other people.
What progressive overload methods do you use? For years I myself approached it in such a way that my first exercise was done according to some powerfifting schedule and then I went to purely bodybuilding work in the later part of the training. After such 8-12 weeks, thanks to the software, I gained maximum strength and often new PR, which I could use later in the mass building stage and work with greater loads in the "top and back off set" system. But now, years later, it doesn't work that well anymore and, in fact, for 1.5 years I haven't been able to use up to 90% of my old strength. I thought about high volume training, something like training in the oxygen gym, and I wonder how to progress here. I think that the "rep goal" system would suit the best - someone trains with this system or maybe has other ideas for effective progression.

 

[juggy38]

Luki, I always did best with what you used to do.

Compound….hit a heavy 6-10 rep (or 8-12) depending on exercise, then on my back off I would do a DC Rest pause at a 10% load drop if applicable.

Between college football, MMA, and Father Time, my knees and shoulders are like no. Duck no.


I enjoy step loading. With tightly controlled rest times.

Ok so squats….we want 3 “hard sets”

Week 1: 3x10 @ 315….got all 10. Next week we go to 335. Got 10,10,9. Ok so next week we will do 3x8 at 340. Got 8,8,8. Move to 350 and got 8,8,7. So we go to 360 and do 3x6. Got 6,6,6. Once I get to a hard 3x6….I drop back to 340 and try for 3x10

Going 10-8-6 is a little more towards strength/hypertrophy, if I was going for pure size I’d start at 12s. And if your sick individual and want to work on work capacity start at 15-13-11-9 repeat

 

[Masterblaster1]

I do best on extreme low volume and high intensity aka jordan peters style. Also trying to get strong on all rep ranges between 6-20 thats builds the most mass for me.

 

[Dugbet]

I do best on extreme low volume and high intensity aka jordan peters style. Also trying to get strong on all rep ranges between 6-20 thats builds the most mass for me.

How low?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I wish @madg would drop in and discuss his high volume approach where rest period is an integral piece of progressive overload. I’ve been making good progress lately after a plateau by dropping time from my rest period and cranking out the reps from last workout. Then once rest periods get short enough make a jump in weight next workout and reset rest period.

 

[musclefreak47]

I think it could be an interesting topic to discuss and learn from other people.
What progressive overload methods do you use? For years I myself approached it in such a way that my first exercise was done according to some powerfifting schedule and then I went to purely bodybuilding work in the later part of the training. After such 8-12 weeks, thanks to the software, I gained maximum strength and often new PR, which I could use later in the mass building stage and work with greater loads in the "top and back off set" system. But now, years later, it doesn't work that well anymore and, in fact, for 1.5 years I haven't been able to use up to 90% of my old strength. I thought about high volume training, something like training in the oxygen gym, and I wonder how to progress here. I think that the "rep goal" system would suit the best - someone trains with this system or maybe has other ideas for effective progression.

For me i first start my workouts all sets 6-8 reps heavy as possible to keep form perfect,most exercises i don't to to failure...
Later 8-10, 10-12 and last one is around 15.
Goal is Always to keep the rep range the same but increase the Weights.
I do add some rest pause sets also

 

[thethinker48]

My perception of progressive overload has changed a lot over the years.

I've logbooked +150 lbs on dips for cluster sets of 16-20, and eventually growth stalled and tendonitis kicked in

Training now is based around:
- "What are movements I can handle in lower rep range" +
- "What are movements that yield more in higher rep range (arms)" +
- "How much volume can I handle given my current life stress and resting ability"

And just play around with that.

I can do a traditional balls to walls PPL logbooked for 4-5 weeks before it wears me down in day to day life especially if I'm working a lot. I like John Meadows's (RIP) programs because he built volume, and overload progression into those programs. So I can add and subtract volume & pump days as needed per bodypart that needs focus, and my joints don't feel as beat up either, because not every movement is load based.

People don't realize it, but there is a lot of thought put into the stuff that John put out. And if you ever need to just turn your mind off, look at a plan and follow it; mountaindog training.

DC, Fortitude Training, Mountaindog training; everyone should try it all and take pieces of it to tailor to their own individual needs. If you don't want to think; you won't be let astray by just putting your head down & following one program

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Luki, I always did best with what you used to do.

Compound….hit a heavy 6-10 rep (or 8-12) depending on exercise, then on my back off I would do a DC Rest pause at a 10% load drop if applicable.

Between college football, MMA, and Father Time, my knees and shoulders are like no. Duck no.


I enjoy step loading. With tightly controlled rest times.

Ok so squats….we want 3 “hard sets”

Week 1: 3x10 @ 315….got all 10. Next week we go to 335. Got 10,10,9. Ok so next week we will do 3x8 at 340. Got 8,8,8. Move to 350 and got 8,8,7. So we go to 360 and do 3x6. Got 6,6,6. Once I get to a hard 3x6….I drop back to 340 and try for 3x10

Going 10-8-6 is a little more towards strength/hypertrophy, if I was going for pure size I’d start at 12s. And if your sick individual and want to work on work capacity start at 15-13-11-9 repeat

Would it work as well to start at 20 reps or does the concept not really transfer over to higher rep ranges?

 

[pharma1]

I really like using a variety of rep ranges for all exercises. The pyramid approach per exercise.
1-2 warm up sets.
1 set at 15-20 reps,
1 set at 10-12 reps,
1 set at 6-8 reps (top set / not to failure),
1 set at 8-10 reps, (to failure)
Final set 15+ reps (to or past failure)

Initially for week 1 I would only do 3 working sets, 1 to failure, and week 2 I would aim to increase my reps on those 3 sets.
moving on to week 3 I would add in a 4th set, and week 4 I would again aim to increase the reps on each exercise.

week 5 and 6 the same idea takes over.
week 7, 2 sets to failure rather than 1
week 8 add an intensity technique at the end of each exercise
Deload week 9 and re adjust your programming.

Something like that is currently more or less what im doing and I have been steadily progressing this year despite my consistency being worse than last year. Damn vacations stealin the gainz!

Luki you seem very high level, what type of training were you doing when you were an amateur BB just doing your first few shows?

 

[Bleed]

DC method (MWF) is what I plan on starting for the offseason. I listen to Dantes supplement advice the majority of the time for the entire time I have been doing this and I have stayed healthy with no major health issues save some injuries. The only thing I havent tried is his program so it seems like logical next step.

Its not the kind of program you jump right into without reading about first and the log book alone requires some advanced planning and prep.

I am in the process of figuring what my A/B rotations are and which machines etc at my gym are suitable for my goals. I'll spend the next month at trt while getting a feel for the exercise selection and tempo of the DC lifts (Rest-pause vs straight sets). At some point in Oct I will pull labs and if everything looks good it's the start of the full program.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I'm curious about this as well.

I've done some reverse periodization in the past, but I wasn't using much of anything at the time. I definitely felt like my joints did better doing it, but muscle gains? I dunno. I get stuck in this what I've always done mode though, which is basically a lot of volume, as heavy as I can. No real "built" progression involved, and of late I've felt like maybe I'm leaving some things on the table reverting back to that.

 

[luki7788]

I really like using a variety of rep ranges for all exercises. The pyramid approach per exercise.
1-2 warm up sets.
1 set at 15-20 reps,
1 set at 10-12 reps,
1 set at 6-8 reps (top set / not to failure),
1 set at 8-10 reps, (to failure)
Final set 15+ reps (to or past failure)

Initially for week 1 I would only do 3 working sets, 1 to failure, and week 2 I would aim to increase my reps on those 3 sets.
moving on to week 3 I would add in a 4th set, and week 4 I would again aim to increase the reps on each exercise.

week 5 and 6 the same idea takes over.
week 7, 2 sets to failure rather than 1
week 8 add an intensity technique at the end of each exercise
Deload week 9 and re adjust your programming.

Something like that is currently more or less what im doing and I have been steadily progressing this year despite my consistency being worse than last year. Damn vacations stealin the gainz!

Luki you seem very high level, what type of training were you doing when you were an amateur BB just doing your first few shows?

I trained from the beginning exactly as I described in the first post

 

[luki7788]

DC method (MWF) is what I plan on starting for the offseason. I listen to Dantes supplement advice the majority of the time for the entire time I have been doing this and I have stayed healthy with no major health issues save some injuries. The only thing I havent tried is his program so it seems like logical next step.

Its not the kind of program you jump right into without reading about first and the log book alone requires some advanced planning and prep.

I am in the process of figuring what my A/B rotations are and which machines etc at my gym are suitable for my goals. I'll spend the next month at trt while getting a feel for the exercise selection and tempo of the DC lifts (Rest-pause vs straight sets). At some point in Oct I will pull labs and if everything looks good it's the start of the full program.

A typical DC is good but for beginners and intermediate players - first, it doesn't focus on details and weak points, but adding bulk. Secondly, if you have really cranked up your results and are above your genetic potential, it is too burdensome for the nervous system to progress for more than 4-5 weeks before you burn out.

I was thinking about rep goal progression, i.e. we assume that we have 25 repetitions to be performed in 3 series. Let's take squats, for example:
500lbs x10.7.5 rep - we have a total of 22 repetitions, so in the next training we stay on the same load
next training 500x11,8,6 = 25 reps - we reached the rep target, so in the next training we increase the weight to 510lbs and repeat the process. In sets we don't work until we fall down completely, but we end up with a shy fall

 

[Bleed]

I am not at your level or trying to turn pro at this but you are correct in your assessment that standard DC is good for intermediates but there is an advanced method for guys who want to address weak points.

From what Ive read, the advanced DC protocol has a different split with extra days added to address weak points. I would agree, and from what I have seen Dante has addressed this, that you absolutely will burn out and that is a matter of "when" not a question of "if" at all. Could be 4 - 6 weeks or longer.

I dont know what he would recommend now but Ive seen various places say he would say to take anywhere between 10 days or more off to recover from the "blast" phase of his program. This time off is purely heresy to many bodybuilders and probably why a lot of guys wouldnt try it at all or come up with a cruise program so they can still hit the gym for the mental part of training. I have no issues taking time off if required.

The program has been around a long time and im sure it's possible that theres been a lot that has changed with it. Is it the only way to get where youre going? Definitely not and Dante has said as much himself but I dont see burning out in a 4-5-6 weeks as a negative if you are getting where you want to be.

I think your example of squats wouldnt work with DC because if im not mistaken squats are one of the exercises he would recommend widow makers for instead of the rest pause method of x - x - x.

A typical DC is good but for beginners and intermediate players - first, it doesn't focus on details and weak points, but adding bulk. Secondly, if you have really cranked up your results and are above your genetic potential, it is too burdensome for the nervous system to progress for more than 4-5 weeks before you burn out.

I was thinking about rep goal progression, i.e. we assume that we have 25 repetitions to be performed in 3 series. Let's take squats, for example:
500lbs x10.7.5 rep - we have a total of 22 repetitions, so in the next training we stay on the same load
next training 500x11,8,6 = 25 reps - we reached the rep target, so in the next training we increase the weight to 510lbs and repeat the process. In sets we don't work until we fall down completely, but we end up with a shy fall

 

[luki7788]

I am not at your level or trying to turn pro at this but you are correct in your assessment that standard DC is good for intermediates but there is an advanced method for guys who want to address weak points.

From what Ive read, the advanced DC protocol has a different split with extra days added to address weak points. I would agree, and from what I have seen Dante has addressed this, that you absolutely will burn out and that is a matter of "when" not a question of "if" at all. Could be 4 - 6 weeks or longer.

I dont know what he would recommend now but Ive seen various places say he would say to take anywhere between 10 days or more off to recover from the "blast" phase of his program. This time off is purely heresy to many bodybuilders and probably why a lot of guys wouldnt try it at all or come up with a cruise program so they can still hit the gym for the mental part of training. I have no issues taking time off if required.

The program has been around a long time and im sure it's possible that theres been a lot that has changed with it. Is it the only way to get where youre going? Definitely not and Dante has said as much himself but I dont see burning out in a 4-5-6 weeks as a negative if you are getting where you want to be.

I think your example of squats wouldnt work with DC because if im not mistaken squats are one of the exercises he would recommend widow makers for instead of the rest pause method of x - x - x.

But you got it wrong - this squat example is not a rest pasuse method just 3 simple separate sets, this statement has nothing to do with DC

 

[Bleed]

I thought you were responding to my comment about DC. The way you listed it looks like the way the examples of DC rest pause are listed.

Got it.

But you got it wrong - this squat example is not a rest pasuse method just 3 simple separate sets, this statement has nothing to do with DC

 

[machomadness22]

I followed Cody Montgomery’s program off Snapchat for a while and it was the and still is the most effective program for me.
3 sets focused on progressive overload 6-8 reps
Then 4-5 sets of 12-15 focused more on volume.

 

[Dugbet]

I followed Cody Montgomery’s program off Snapchat for a while and it was the and still is the most effective program for me.
3 sets focused on progressive overload 6-8 reps
Then 4-5 sets of 12-15 focused more on volume.

Would it be 7-8 sets per muscle group?

 

[luki7788]

Would it be 7-8 sets per muscle group?

can you see this system somewhere?

 

[juggy38]

Would it work as well to start at 20 reps or does the concept not really transfer over to higher rep ranges?

Oh it does for sure. Just it’s gonna burn lol