Leg Training with Lower Back Issues

[pothole]

Smith squats and hack squats always felt bad in my spine. I see the freaks like Roelly load up the leg press but only go down a quarter way. That seems like a good way to not compress the spine and still get a lot of quad stress.

Yeah the smith squat is what wrecked me. coming out of the hole I felt my pelvis/ hips shift and then an audible pop. the pain wasn't immediate. but mentally I knew I messed something up bad.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I think this is the area of the injury or it could be a lower QL strain. The PT and Ortho are not sure. They said it doesn't matter because they would end up treating it the same way.

So on the leg press the load builds in the pelvis area on the eccentric. Thats why I think these are out of the question right now.

That's still okay. You have plenty of good suggestions here. Hopefully you find something that works for your legs. You have access to more machines than even I do and I pushed through.

 

[TrippplePPP]

If you wiggled during a smith squat then are deficient somewhere. You probably used the Smith Machine to assist you during the motion and still you wiggled somehow injuring yourself. The force was greater than your body's defense mechanism at a certain posture or position during the exercise.

Always do your core exercises first in the workout, like planks or bridging. Do a few sets and then your leg exercises. Once your core fatigues I would quit anything that compromises your spine for the rest of the workout. Over time your core's stamina improves to where it will last all leg workout therefore never fatiguing allowing for protection all workout long. You can understand that you core protects your spine in movements and once it can no longer protect you are most vulnerable to injuring your spine on a small or large scale.

As far as exercises. One leg exercises are no joke, balance pads, dumbbell on shoulder squats. You can still achieve nice legs without heavy axial loading of the spine.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I'm looking for some feedback on leg training around a healing lower back strain/disc issue. About a month ago I injured my lower back doing smith squats. Immediately went to the orthopedic then did PT for about two weeks. Took about a month for me to feel like I had fully recovered. My leg training since then has looked like this:

Warm up - Bike for 6 mins, walking lunges around the gym, high kicks etc...

Seated Ham Curls - 2 working sets

Belt Squats - 1 working set, 1 widow maker set

Meadows' Bulgarian Spilt Squats of death - 1 round

Seated Leg Extensions - 2 - 3 working sets

Seated Calves SS w/ Tibia raises - 4-5 sets of 20 each

I hit this 2 times a week in a PPL split. Its a good "pump" work out but I miss destroying myself on legs ya know?

I want to stay away from anything that would potential put too much of load on the lower back because even though I feel fine I know the injury hasn't 100% healed. The Gym I go to has EVERY leg machine available. My question is how can I add mass to my legs without risk of injury. Would a TruSquat or Hack be stable enough or would this cause spinal compression. Also leg pressing seems out of the question since the load is getting pushed into the low back.

Any recommendations are appreciated. Thanks

Leg extension and seated leg curls, 8 sets of 15 reps on each, 3 time per week.

 

[warlock]

Leg extension and seated leg curls, 8 sets of 15 reps on each, 3 time per week.

Do you think doing only leg extensions for quads as in 8 sets of 15 reps, 3 times per week, could help develop mass and new tissue or would you say this is only effective for maintenance purposes?

 

[maldorf]

Yeah the smith squat is what wrecked me. coming out of the hole I felt my pelvis/ hips shift and then an audible pop. the pain wasn't immediate. but mentally I knew I messed something up bad.

Yeah, i did smith squats once because the hotel gym I was staying at for summer vacation did not have a squat rack. I hurt my low back bad on it. Same type of thing. I think it forces you into an unnatural movement.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

This machine may be of use

 

[heavyhitter]

Yes. If you're talking L5, S1, leg presses are probably out. I read through the the thread but did not see which area is the problem (just generally lower back).

I’ve found that putting an ab mat behind my low back on the leg press allows me to press without pain. L5s1 herniation for me

 

[maldorf]

I’ve found that putting an ab mat behind my low back on the leg press allows me to press without pain. L5s1 herniation for me

What exactly is an Ab mat? I have a feeling I have the same injury as you. I will find out in a few weeks when I see the orthopedic surgeon.

 

[heavyhitter]

What exactly is an Ab mat? I have a feeling I have the same injury as you. I will find out in a few weeks when I see the orthopedic surgeon.

It’s a little ergonomic looking pad thing people use for crunches. I use them for the leg press and for floor pressing. Mine was a compression herniation from crashing during a motorcycle race at about 85

 

[pothole]

If you wiggled during a smith squat then are deficient somewhere. You probably used the Smith Machine to assist you during the motion and still you wiggled somehow injuring yourself. The force was greater than your body's defense mechanism at a certain posture or position during the exercise.

Always do your core exercises first in the workout, like planks or bridging. Do a few sets and then your leg exercises. Once your core fatigues I would quit anything that compromises your spine for the rest of the workout. Over time your core's stamina improves to where it will last all leg workout therefore never fatiguing allowing for protection all workout long. You can understand that you core protects your spine in movements and once it can no longer protect you are most vulnerable to injuring your spine on a small or large scale.

As far as exercises. One leg exercises are no joke, balance pads, dumbbell on shoulder squats. You can still achieve nice legs without heavy axial loading of the spine.

This is spot on. Thanks. Im sure my core is lacking. I also feel like my right hip flexor is to blame as well. That shit had been so tight the last few weeks leading up to the injury. coincidently the pop/area of injury is just above my right glute. there was a form break down for sure.

hindsight is always 20/20, I was towards the end of my first every prep, so food was low, recovery was low, other minor injuries started to pop up ie knee pain, adductor/groin strain, golfers elbow. haha I was pushing hard man. I ain't no bitch. but I sure paid for it that day.

I will know the warning signs now and pull back.

 

[fozzyred]

It’s a little ergonomic looking pad thing people use for crunches. I use them for the leg press and for floor pressing. Mine was a compression herniation from crashing during a motorcycle race at about 85

Saving this for the next time my back flares up! I can see how this would help! Thanks for the share!

 

[lookslikesausage]

I think I know what he's talking about with leg press. The last time I had L5 issues, I had to stop squatting and went to leg press to take the strain off my lower back. When lowering the weight past parallel, I think the slight rounding from the pelvic area caused pain. It's not incredibly intense, and I was able to fight through it to get my sets in, but there was definitely noticable discomfort.

The machine I mentioned earlier has been a backsaver on leg days for me. I wish I had one of the pendulum machines at my gym. Looks amazing. Belt squat too.

I have this same issue with leg presses as you. I don't use the leg press often but if I do I only press with one leg at a time. my back is so sensitive to basically any vertical loading now and it fucking sucks. I used to do powerlifting so my ego took a hit when I had to give up heavy squatting and DLing (I loved them and am envious of those who are still able to do them). I lost quite a bit of muscle also but that's another story.

I got hurt in 2009 an i've been in pain ever since and not one day goes by without some level of pain. l2-l3 have a herniation. l3-l4 are bulging. l4-l5 bulging. l5-s1 have a herniation. I can walk so no surgery for me according to doctors. Pills and "stretch" or "oh you've tried PT, right?". LOL. Anyway, leg training has become a challenge for me. I gave up all barbell squats and deadlifting because of how bad I'd feel for days afterwards. not worth it for me at this juncture. ultimately, the compression causes me great pain (or too much than I'm willing to deal with now). even holding a 10 lb bar and touching my toes caused a pretty bad reaction.

So...take this for what it's worth, I'm no Mr. Olympia but these are the things that allowed me to get very good workouts and very sore with very little or no spinal compression:

deep bodyweight squats (hams make contact with calves) with no lockout and with heels elevated, 20 reps, 20-30 seconds rest, 10 sets. sounds easy. DON'T LOCK OUT and it might not be so easy.

Seated Leg Curl machine. Lying Leg Curl "pulls" on my spine a little too much. Standing Leg Curl or Kneeling are ok and I don't get much pain but I get a better stretch in the hams from seated.

Lunges. I prefer Walking Lunges and sometimes superset this with Deep Bodyweight heel elevated Squats.

Bulgarian Split Squat.

Sometimes I will stand on a high angled slant board and hold two DBs at my sides and again do deep squats with a very slow negative and try not to lock out. Do them slow and make the movement hard.

Sometimes I will use a Hack Squat and no weight or only put quarters on and do hacks Platz style where the heels rise off the platform and the knee move past the foot but be careful. this can be hard on the knees. Sometimes I will do half of my set in the Platz style and the rest of the set normal fashion but I always try to get hams to calves in terms of depth.

Pendulum Squat- I used to own one and I was able to fry the hell out of my quads. I love the movement! However, at the very bottom of the movement, the compression was too much for my spine. Again, maybe yours is different and maybe you have a different machine than I did (mine was by Paramount). Even unweighted, the compression caused me discomfort although my quads loved it. I also went hams to calves for the depth and I'm sure that wasn't doing me any favors but if you're not going to all the way down using a Pendulum Squat machine, what's the point? That's my take at least.

Belt Squat - ok movement, not much compression. depending on your build, this is more hip dominant. I couldn't rely on these to blast my quads because they kind of pull your hips back with the way the machine and loading point is designed. it truly does mimic a powerlifting low bar "hips back" (hip & glute dominant) squat. even when I tried to keep my torso upright w/elevated heels I still felt my hips pulling back and consequently, couldn't get the amount of quad activation I was looking for. Again, for a total lower body move, it's fine and shouldn't hurt your back; just not the best pure quad move IMO, just like how a low bar hips back PLing style squat isn't the best quad builder either.

Sissy Squats done properly (think "long lever" not just drop hips below like most do it; the long lever style will also work your abs hard but it will fry your quads). You can do the long lever style and then once fatigued go into the style that most use where you just lower your hips while the tib and ankle remain locked place via the Sissy Squat device. This will work well for quads.

And finally GHRs are good for hams too, again, again think long lever and try not to push your hips back too much when coming out of the bottom. Use a band if you need to. For pure ham focus w/GHR, much or all of the movement should only happen at the knee. Again, think "long" lever and it will also work your abs statically.

I don't have a ton of workouts using the Reverse Hyper only because I haven't had access to one regularly but when I did I didn't find it to be Earth-shattering. Maybe I didn't have enough time on one. maybe they will work well for you though.

Calves shouldn't be issue as long as you stay away from heavy Standing Calf machine.

Also, the first movement I ever dropped was Bent Over Rows. Those hurt me right away after my injury. I'd switch to Chest Supported Rowing movements asap. Those are still no doable for me even with an empty bar. This position itself is problematic. Just my experience, again.

Finally, if you are strict and honest you can train your lower body hard without heavy vertical loading. It just takes patience, discipline (keeping the movements strict and honest), and lots of reps and long sets (basically patience). I'm no expert but that's been my experience as someone who slowly had to remove most of the more popular exercises from their regimen to avoid being in bad pain all the time. Good luck.

 

[fozzyred]

I have this same issue with leg presses as you. I don't use the leg press often but if I do I only press with one leg at a time. my back is so sensitive to basically any vertical loading now and it fucking sucks. I used to do powerlifting so my ego took a hit when I had to give up heavy squatting and DLing (I loved them and am envious of those who are still able to do them). I lost quite a bit of muscle also but that's another story.

I got hurt in 2009 an i've been in pain ever since and not one day goes by without some level of pain. l2-l3 have a herniation. l3-l4 are bulging. l4-l5 bulging. l5-s1 have a herniation. I can walk so no surgery for me according to doctors. Pills and "stretch" or "oh you've tried PT, right?". LOL. Anyway, leg training has become a challenge for me. I gave up all barbell squats and deadlifting because of how bad I'd feel for days afterwards. not worth it for me at this juncture. ultimately, the compression causes me great pain (or too much than I'm willing to deal with now). even holding a 10 lb bar and touching my toes caused a pretty bad reaction.

So...take this for what it's worth, I'm no Mr. Olympia but these are the things that allowed me to get very good workouts and very sore with very little or no spinal compression:

deep bodyweight squats (hams make contact with calves) with no lockout and with heels elevated, 20 reps, 20-30 seconds rest, 10 sets. sounds easy. DON'T LOCK OUT and it might not be so easy.

Seated Leg Curl machine. Lying Leg Curl "pulls" on my spine a little too much. Standing Leg Curl or Kneeling are ok and I don't get much pain but I get a better stretch in the hams from seated.

Lunges. I prefer Walking Lunges and sometimes superset this with Deep Bodyweight heel elevated Squats.

Bulgarian Split Squat.

Sometimes I will stand on a high angled slant board and hold two DBs at my sides and again do deep squats with a very slow negative and try not to lock out. Do them slow and make the movement hard.

Sometimes I will use a Hack Squat and no weight or only put quarters on and do hacks Platz style where the heels rise off the platform and the knee move past the foot but be careful. this can be hard on the knees. Sometimes I will do half of my set in the Platz style and the rest of the set normal fashion but I always try to get hams to calves in terms of depth.

Pendulum Squat- I used to own one and I was able to fry the hell out of my quads. I love the movement! However, at the very bottom of the movement, the compression was too much for my spine. Again, maybe yours is different and maybe you have a different machine than I did (mine was by Paramount). Even unweighted, the compression caused me discomfort although my quads loved it. I also went hams to calves for the depth and I'm sure that wasn't doing me any favors but if you're not going to all the way down using a Pendulum Squat machine, what's the point? That's my take at least.

Belt Squat - ok movement, not much compression. depending on your build, this is more hip dominant. I couldn't rely on these to blast my quads because they kind of pull your hips back with the way the machine and loading point is designed. it truly does mimic a powerlifting low bar "hips back" (hip & glute dominant) squat. even when I tried to keep my torso upright w/elevated heels I still felt my hips pulling back and consequently, couldn't get the amount of quad activation I was looking for. Again, for a total lower body move, it's fine and shouldn't hurt your back; just not the best pure quad move IMO, just like how a low bar hips back PLing style squat isn't the best quad builder either.

Sissy Squats done properly (think "long lever" not just drop hips below like most do it; the long lever style will also work your abs hard but it will fry your quads). You can do the long lever style and then once fatigued go into the style that most use where you just lower your hips while the tib and ankle remain locked place via the Sissy Squat device. This will work well for quads.

And finally GHRs are good for hams too, again, again think long lever and try not to push your hips back too much when coming out of the bottom. Use a band if you need to. For pure ham focus w/GHR, much or all of the movement should only happen at the knee. Again, think "long" lever and it will also work your abs statically.

I don't have a ton of workouts using the Reverse Hyper only because I haven't had access to one regularly but when I did I didn't find it to be Earth-shattering. Maybe I didn't have enough time on one. maybe they will work well for you though.

Calves shouldn't be issue as long as you stay away from heavy Standing Calf machine.

Also, the first movement I ever dropped was Bent Over Rows. Those hurt me right away after my injury. I'd switch to Chest Supported Rowing movements asap. Those are still no doable for me even with an empty bar. This position itself is problematic. Just my experience, again.

Finally, if you are strict and honest you can train your lower body hard without heavy vertical loading. It just takes patience, discipline (keeping the movements strict and honest), and lots of reps and long sets (basically patience). I'm no expert but that's been my experience as someone who slowly had to remove most of the more popular exercises from their regimen to avoid being in bad pain all the time. Good luck.

This post is gold! Thanks @lookslikesausage!

 

[pothole]

I have this same issue with leg presses as you. I don't use the leg press often but if I do I only press with one leg at a time. my back is so sensitive to basically any vertical loading now and it fucking sucks. I used to do powerlifting so my ego took a hit when I had to give up heavy squatting and DLing (I loved them and am envious of those who are still able to do them). I lost quite a bit of muscle also but that's another story.

I got hurt in 2009 an i've been in pain ever since and not one day goes by without some level of pain. l2-l3 have a herniation. l3-l4 are bulging. l4-l5 bulging. l5-s1 have a herniation. I can walk so no surgery for me according to doctors. Pills and "stretch" or "oh you've tried PT, right?". LOL. Anyway, leg training has become a challenge for me. I gave up all barbell squats and deadlifting because of how bad I'd feel for days afterwards. not worth it for me at this juncture. ultimately, the compression causes me great pain (or too much than I'm willing to deal with now). even holding a 10 lb bar and touching my toes caused a pretty bad reaction.

So...take this for what it's worth, I'm no Mr. Olympia but these are the things that allowed me to get very good workouts and very sore with very little or no spinal compression:

deep bodyweight squats (hams make contact with calves) with no lockout and with heels elevated, 20 reps, 20-30 seconds rest, 10 sets. sounds easy. DON'T LOCK OUT and it might not be so easy.

Seated Leg Curl machine. Lying Leg Curl "pulls" on my spine a little too much. Standing Leg Curl or Kneeling are ok and I don't get much pain but I get a better stretch in the hams from seated.

Lunges. I prefer Walking Lunges and sometimes superset this with Deep Bodyweight heel elevated Squats.

Bulgarian Split Squat.

Sometimes I will stand on a high angled slant board and hold two DBs at my sides and again do deep squats with a very slow negative and try not to lock out. Do them slow and make the movement hard.

Sometimes I will use a Hack Squat and no weight or only put quarters on and do hacks Platz style where the heels rise off the platform and the knee move past the foot but be careful. this can be hard on the knees. Sometimes I will do half of my set in the Platz style and the rest of the set normal fashion but I always try to get hams to calves in terms of depth.

Pendulum Squat- I used to own one and I was able to fry the hell out of my quads. I love the movement! However, at the very bottom of the movement, the compression was too much for my spine. Again, maybe yours is different and maybe you have a different machine than I did (mine was by Paramount). Even unweighted, the compression caused me discomfort although my quads loved it. I also went hams to calves for the depth and I'm sure that wasn't doing me any favors but if you're not going to all the way down using a Pendulum Squat machine, what's the point? That's my take at least.

Belt Squat - ok movement, not much compression. depending on your build, this is more hip dominant. I couldn't rely on these to blast my quads because they kind of pull your hips back with the way the machine and loading point is designed. it truly does mimic a powerlifting low bar "hips back" (hip & glute dominant) squat. even when I tried to keep my torso upright w/elevated heels I still felt my hips pulling back and consequently, couldn't get the amount of quad activation I was looking for. Again, for a total lower body move, it's fine and shouldn't hurt your back; just not the best pure quad move IMO, just like how a low bar hips back PLing style squat isn't the best quad builder either.

Sissy Squats done properly (think "long lever" not just drop hips below like most do it; the long lever style will also work your abs hard but it will fry your quads). You can do the long lever style and then once fatigued go into the style that most use where you just lower your hips while the tib and ankle remain locked place via the Sissy Squat device. This will work well for quads.

And finally GHRs are good for hams too, again, again think long lever and try not to push your hips back too much when coming out of the bottom. Use a band if you need to. For pure ham focus w/GHR, much or all of the movement should only happen at the knee. Again, think "long" lever and it will also work your abs statically.

I don't have a ton of workouts using the Reverse Hyper only because I haven't had access to one regularly but when I did I didn't find it to be Earth-shattering. Maybe I didn't have enough time on one. maybe they will work well for you though.

Calves shouldn't be issue as long as you stay away from heavy Standing Calf machine.

Also, the first movement I ever dropped was Bent Over Rows. Those hurt me right away after my injury. I'd switch to Chest Supported Rowing movements asap. Those are still no doable for me even with an empty bar. This position itself is problematic. Just my experience, again.

Finally, if you are strict and honest you can train your lower body hard without heavy vertical loading. It just takes patience, discipline (keeping the movements strict and honest), and lots of reps and long sets (basically patience). I'm no expert but that's been my experience as someone who slowly had to remove most of the more popular exercises from their regimen to avoid being in bad pain all the time. Good luck.

wow, thank you for taking the time to post this. I really appreciate it.

the seated curls, Bulgarians, belt squats, and leg extensions have been my go to as of late. I've basically been using the belt squats as my main "compound" movement. for some reason the tension from the belt when I get up to a decent weight literally bruises up my hips. I've resorted to folding up old knee sleeves and putting them around my hips. If it wasn't for the belt discomfort I could destroy this movement. Ill keep playing with it and see.

I'm thinking about adding in the pendulum squat this week and see how it goes. I also have a paramount one and Randy Coyle swing squat.

As for Back I dropped everything that had me bent over rowing with out chest support. I hope one day I can get rack pulls back in the mix though

 

[lookslikesausage]

This post is gold! Thanks @lookslikesausage!

And one other thing...I haven't had so many good experiences with doctors. Basically, the way I've been treated is, "you're not a professional athlete. you can walk. you're not a candidate for surgery. here's some pills. you're on your own". I haven't had so much luck w/PTs but I haven't given up on them either. I know there are some great ones out there. If I met a doc or someone who strongly recommended one in my area I'd go in a heartbeat. it's just that most give you the same old exercises and stretches and usually "the big three". it hasn't done the trick for me but maybe it will for you. I have only met one doc who I really felt like went out of his way to actually help me and he did. unfortunately, my insurance expired and I couldn't see him with my current one.

this injury has put me in some dark places. the toll of being in pain mentally day in and day out can take on you, the hopelessness, the feeling of being trapped and losing the freedom to what you want physically with no end in sight...can't lose hope. maybe it will be an amazing pt, maybe it will be a surgery. just trying to say that you can't let the mental struggle get its claws in and ruin your life.

 

[lookslikesausage]

wow, thank you for taking the time to post this. I really appreciate it.

the seated curls, Bulgarians, belt squats, and leg extensions have been my go to as of late. I've basically been using the belt squats as my main "compound" movement. for some reason the tension from the belt when I get up to a decent weight literally bruises up my hips. I've resorted to folding up old knee sleeves and putting them around my hips. If it wasn't for the belt discomfort I could destroy this movement. Ill keep playing with it and see.

I'm thinking about adding in the pendulum squat this week and see how it goes. I also have a paramount one and Randy Coyle swing squat.

As for Back I dropped everything that had me bent over rowing with out chest support. I hope one day I can get rack pulls back in the mix though

The Randy Coyle Swing Squat is awesome! A gym I went to used to have one. Great piece. Technically, it's the first Pendulum Squat. All others copied this design to a large degree. Word has it, that Randy Coyle just started manufacturing them again. He's in his 80's. God bless him. Originally it was designed for athletes who had trouble with their knees and difficulty squatting. It's a great piece! This is the kind of innovation that I feel is lacking nowadays in terms of our equipment. Not only that, even if something great did come along, you won't see it in most gyms nowadays. It's the same old tired lines of Life Fitness and Hammer Strength (same company) in so many gyms. Then again, most gymgoers probably wouldn't know what they were looking at if they saw Coyle's Swing Squat.

 

[pothole]

The Randy Coyle Swing Squat is awesome! A gym I went to used to have one. Great piece. Technically, it's the first Pendulum Squat. All others copied this design to a large degree. Word has it, that Randy Coyle just started manufacturing them again. He's in his 80's. God bless him. Originally it was designed for athletes who had trouble with their knees and difficulty squatting. It's a great piece! This is the kind of innovation that I feel is lacking nowadays in terms of our equipment. Not only that, even if something great did come along, you won't see it in most gyms nowadays. It's the same old tired lines of Life Fitness and Hammer Strength (same company) in so many gyms. Then again, most gymgoers probably wouldn't know what they were looking at if they saw Coyle's Swing Squat.

my thoughts exactly. I was saying in another thread that I now drive an hour to an hour and a half 4 days a week. Just to use some of these rare and unique pieces. My back injury is what prompted me to search out a new gym. This place has over 475 machines in total (not including free weights etc.) I think 53 of them are leg machines. If you're ever in Georgia, check out Madhouse Gym

 

[lookslikesausage]

my thoughts exactly. I was saying in another thread that I now drive an hour to an hour and a half 4 days a week. Just to use some of these rare and unique pieces. My back injury is what prompted me to search out a new gym. This place has over 475 machines in total (not including free weights etc.) I think 53 of them are leg machines. If you're ever in Georgia, check out Madhouse Gym

Yes, I follow them on Insta. It's an equipment nerd's wet dream. I need to come up with a fake reason to convince wife to travel to GA w/me just so I can work out there for a week.

 

[fozzyred]

And one other thing...I haven't had so many good experiences with doctors. Basically, the way I've been treated is, "you're not a professional athlete. you can walk. you're not a candidate for surgery. here's some pills. you're on your own". I haven't had so much luck w/PTs but I haven't given up on them either. I know there are some great ones out there. If I met a doc or someone who strongly recommended one in my area I'd go in a heartbeat. it's just that most give you the same old exercises and stretches and usually "the big three". it hasn't done the trick for me but maybe it will for you. I have only met one doc who I really felt like went out of his way to actually help me and he did. unfortunately, my insurance expired and I couldn't see him with my current one.

this injury has put me in some dark places. the toll of being in pain mentally day in and day out can take on you, the hopelessness, the feeling of being trapped and losing the freedom to what you want physically with no end in sight...can't lose hope. maybe it will be an amazing pt, maybe it will be a surgery. just trying to say that you can't let the mental struggle get its claws in and ruin your life.

This is great advice. I appreciate you being open about your struggles.