This board wont believe it but people around him says he is lifetime natural. More power to him.

[qbkilla]

THIS 100%
I just dont think people understand what walkng into a D1 lockerroom looks like LOL

There are two types of elite collegiate/pro athletes. There are the ones who were a bit bigger, stronger and faster and had better coordination than most. But they still had to work hard and dedicate themselves to the game. I was one of those guys. BIG...but not 6'5 340lb. But ever since elementary school ive been bigger AND faster than the vast majority of kids my age and size.
AAND THEN THERE'S the freaks....the better the school athletics wise, the more of them there are. But they are the ones who have consistnelty gotten away with 60% their whole life, because at 60% they were DOMINATING. FOr me....it was 80%. But these guys are mutants.

I remember partying with guys in college who ate pizza all day, got drunk, smoked weed and then ran 4.5s and/or benched 600 like it was nothing.
It was shocking to me as a hard working OK genetic white guy that these dudes didnt give a fuuuuck and still killed other people on the field.
When u see truly amazing pro level guys, they had the best of both worlds. A lil bit blessed BUT they worked fuckin haaard.

There are also plenty of times i have seen young kids in the gym here...i dunno...must be 14-17 and great shape and athletic size....and i think to myself, "maaaan, if that dude were a BBer instead of a OLB...hollyyyy" but the vast majority of sports pull kids away from that now. And rightfully so. You can become a rich person in sports.

agree with this. I think when people scream "he's gotta be on something" about everyone they just do it because they can't accept the fact that generic freak can half ass everything (if they want) and look better still than the guy on 3g doing everything perfect eating 6k calories busting his ass every day optimizing every supplement, aspect of training, and diet.

this goes hand in hand with the other thread IMO. you can't out eat or out train your genetics

a freak an eat pizza and walk into the gym and do what he wants. a guy with shitty genetics can hire the best coach and do everything perfect the freak still wins. that is life. some people are smart, stupid, short, tall, rich, poor. some have great genetics to grow, stay lean, respond to gear, get away with eating junk, and some can do everything right and not look half as good

and when the genetic freaks actually try, it makes the gap between the haves and have nots even bigger

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

This is the inmate I was referring to by the way. Inmate Thomas Mcgruder. Was arrested for shooting up a hip hop party in Scottsdale. Unfortunately DOC doesn’t take full body shots

Guy has gotta have a sick physique

Lol nope

 

[heavyhitter]

Guy has gotta have a sick physique

Lol nope

Trust me, he does. The guy is built like Michael Clark Duncan but leaner

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Trust me, he does. The guy is built like Michael Clark Duncan but leaner

I believe you man

I was just laughing because his picture makes him look like a pile of hot garbage

 

[heavyhitter]

I believe you man

I was just laughing because his picture makes him look like a pile of hot garbage

Ya that’s his intake photo. Probably 11 years ago at this point

 

[Elvia1023]

IN bold above. You are using time against me here Elvia and thats not accurate. Bradley Castleberry back in the day was going in tested shows and weighing 191 and such many years back. A decade plus. He even won one of these shows because the guy above him or two guys above him flunked the drug tests. Bradley didnt. He was much much smaller then than he is now. It was told to me by alot of people around him back then that he was clean at that time. After talking to him and seeing he didnt know an anacin from an anavar back then, I deducted the same because he had no clue whatsoever what I was talking about. And thats the time frame when i stated it as such. Since that time and it has to be at least 10-14 years now...he is now weighing 250-255lbs and is much harder than he was at 191. He was somewhat smooth at 191. So he has gained 64 or more lbs or so since that time....and is obviously not clean since that time. But you got to put the time element into this picture.

Maybe I remember wrong but I recall this going on at the time he started posting his fake weight videos which yes was many years ago. I recall you posting he did use prohormones for one of his contests. I recall someone saying he had used lasix early on and loads of prohormones as well and he was basically full of shit. Point being no one else believed he was natural at that time. I just think some guys are way more open to believing people and others aren't. It's not a bad thing but many people are full of shit. Maybe he was as you state because he got bigger but I still wouldn't trust what he says. Point being he was interviewed last year and he says the same thing that he is natural even now so can you trust anything the guys says.

I never get the way some think if you believe certain guys aren't natural that somehow you can't come to terms with your own genetics and you think anyone who looks good is juicing. The genetic spectrum is vast. I am 100% a realist and I believe guys like Kai were natural early on because it's fairly obvious. That is great genetics and shape and he looks great but is small but would destroy most on stage even natural. Now some of these other guys I don't believe are natural at all. I have also seen numerous people who post in these threads over the years believe Mike O'Hearn is natural as well and that shows a lot to me. They think because he eats and has trained solidly for decades and doesn't change much he is natural. Maybe in another 10 years when he looks bizarre (he is going that way) people will realize this guy is definitely not natural. He looks incredible so more power to him but just one example of the natural discussions we have on this forum that really stand out to me and shows how much people are willing to believe is possible.

I wasn't trying to trick you with time I was just posting my honest opinion because you're the only person to write that about him on here. Hey if you think Brad was natural back then he probably was (then used later on) but sometimes good people are too trusting and I have learnt over the years just how weird people can be with lies. It's bizarre and they do it for whatever reason but even some of the most well rounded and "decent" (not that Brad is like that) people will lie to your face. One of my best mates lied to everyone about being natural and he also couldn't tell you what estrogen or nolvadex is or if an avacado was protein or fats but he was still using oral avar and winny. Although I think with guys like Brad it's fairly obvious they are full of shit and there is no way he is a life time natural now (speaking about his latest interview). He definitely see's himself as the next Mike O'Hearn in many ways and will probably continue the act his entire career.

 

[Elvia1023]

Ramy started juicing very early in his career, I doubt he trained more than 2 years naturally. In 2009 he was a fisherman, in 2012 (both approximate dates, I don't know if they will be exact) he wins the pro card with a size development never before seen in an amateur. He debuts a year later and crushes everyone at the NYP.

Ramy's genetics are exceptional because of his framework.

Kai and Ronnie spent more time developing their bodies, they were natural or better sayd used low doses in their early years, then they go as high as anyone at that level, genetically they are superior in terms of muscle roundes, size or condition to almost all their contemporaries. They also seem genetically superior for having very strong organs that do not get sick with high doses and all that toxicity.

Obviously Ramy is a complete freak so this post isn't disproving that. He is one of the biggest My O winners of all time and done more in a few years than most could do in a lifetime of bodybuilding. However, I feel I should correct some people because when he first came over here they said he had been training for a few years and that was misleading and probably just said to create even more hype and paint him as the biggest freak of all time. Truth is there are many pics of him from way back and he is jacked. Just google it. Pics from 2006 and he is jacked. Obviously much much smaller but it's all there and just needs a bigger push and some time and he would become the freak he later became. Now from what I have read he did have breaks (he got injured early on) and muscle memory came into play but he has definitely been training hard from day 1 and didn't go from nothing to pro in 2 years like was stated when he first came over.

 

[Dugbet]

Obviously Ramy is a complete freak so this post isn't disproving that. He is one of the biggest My O winners of all time and done more in a few years than most could do in a lifetime of bodybuilding. However, I feel I should correct some people because when he first came over here they said he had been training for a few years and that was misleading and probably just said to create even more hype and paint him as the biggest freak of all time. Truth is there are many pics of him from way back and he is jacked. Just google it. Pics from 2006 and he is jacked. Obviously much much smaller but it's all there and just needs a bigger push and some time and he would become the freak he later became. Now from what I have read he did have breaks (he got injured early on) and muscle memory came into play but he has definitely been training hard from day 1 and didn't go from nothing to pro in 2 years like was stated when he first came over.

Fair enough, it would probably have to be said that his career as an amateur competitor was really short. Kai and Ronnie were competing at an amateur level and achieving their pro cards 7-8 years before reaching the top, that is not the case with Ramy.

 

[Dugbet]

Some natural guys look better than some Arnold or Haney era pros.

That would be like a natural athlete running faster than juiced athletes captured in the 100 meters.

Statistically, this is hard to believe.

People here should know that genetics alone is not enough to reach some levels, and neither is juice.

 

[b-boy]

Some natural guys look better than some Arnold or Haney era pros.

That would be like a natural athlete running faster than juiced athletes captured in the 100 meters.

Statistically, this is hard to believe.

People here should know that genetics alone is not enough to reach some levels, and neither is juice.

So @Dugbet the pic I posted when I was younger in this thread in your opinion was that natural? Or do you think I am lying (I won't take offense). Can that type of development be reached naturally?

 

[Dugbet]

So @Dugbet the pic I posted when I was younger in this thread in your opinion was that natural? Or do you think I am lying (I won't take offense). Can that type of development be reached naturally?

As someone said before me, you don't look like Paul, who is almost a cross between Flex, Melvin and David Henry, and he seems better than Mike Ashley or Nubret. It could also be possible that these images are faked, so the man could be natural, but in no way would he look that way.

You have not the size nor the fullness of Paul. You could do the point that you were a beginner at that shot and hadn't been in the sport for years and that's why you don't look like Paul, but no one progresses limitlessly, which is why so many jump in juices.

So, taking all this into account, I have no reason to doubt your claim of natty status.

 

[qbkilla]

Some natural guys look better than some Arnold or Haney era pros.

That would be like a natural athlete running faster than juiced athletes captured in the 100 meters.

Statistically, this is hard to believe.

People here should know that genetics alone is not enough to reach some levels, and neither is juice.

In the 100 meter comparison are you saying natural athlete's can't complete with enhanced ones? I 200 percent disagree.

Look at the NFL.

Michael Strahan natural or reggie white (both chubby) were dominant. Vernon ghostin juiced to the gills couldn't sniff their jock.

Lamar Jackson, it would be safe to assume he is natural. No qb who is less than him can take any amount of drugs to compete with him

There are probably some somoan guys out there who can bench 400 plus. No amount of juice in the world could make me, my brother, half the guys out there as strong as them.

Genetics dominate professional sports, not drugs. The ones who take drugs take them because they can't compete naturally.

Brian Cushing was juiced to the gills he couldn't sniff ray Lewis or Patrick Willis jock.

 

[nothuman]

I haven't read any of the replies yet but I will say this

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that he is natural. No amount of hard work or effort will make it possible for 99.9% of people to achieve his physique because they don't have the genetics that he does. It's just not realistic to view his physique as an attainable goal for a natty person, even if Paul himself is natty.

 

[thethinker48]

Look at the NFL.

Michael Strahan natural or reggie white (both chubby) were dominant. Vernon ghostin juiced to the gills couldn't sniff their jock.

Lamar Jackson, it would be safe to assume he is natural. No qb who is less than him can take any amount of drugs to compete with him

There are probably some somoan guys out there who can bench 400 plus. No amount of juice in the world could make me, my brother, half the guys out there as strong as them.

Genetics dominate professional sports, not drugs. The ones who take drugs take them because they can't compete naturally.

Brian Cushing was juiced to the gills he couldn't sniff ray Lewis or Patrick Willis jock.

Good post but this is a bit of a broad generalizations.

Freaks taking drugs to become super freaks isn't uncommon in sports

Barry Bonds is one of the greatest batters in baseball; he would still be in that conversation if he never took the drugs

But he took them and smashed records. And nobody can blame him for that when a lot of his competition was as well

All these conversations remind me of a sarcastic Mark Rippetoe quote: ""Every person that's smaller & weaker than me has bad genetics and workethic, and every person bigger and stronger than me is on steroids"

Steroids are a boring lol; they are no secret at this point in any sport. And they definitely can't turn spongebob squarepants into superman. I find usually the folks most obsessed with pointing fingers of drug use are the ones with the least impressive response and physiques (usually it's younger kids who have only been training for a few years)

The ones who have built impressive physiques just smile and nod when they see an anomaly, and go about their day. Because they understand the one fundamental truth which is that your parents matter in this sport

 

[emeric delczeg]

If I'm not mistaken, Emeric has stated that Ronnie was on testosterone as an amateur. Is he a straight shooter IYO when it comes to this stuff? It's tough to get Emeric to elaborate on stuff but I'd love to hear the story behind the Ronnie/Test thing. Maybe Ronnie told him himself.

Ronni was working out naturally for years, and did his first few show naturally, jest lived there. He started taking more hormones a few month before his first Mr.O and much more after his first Mr.O.

 

[Dugbet]

In the 100 meter comparison are you saying natural athlete's can't complete with enhanced ones? I 200 percent disagree.

Look at the NFL.

Michael Strahan natural or reggie white (both chubby) were dominant. Vernon ghostin juiced to the gills couldn't sniff their jock.

Lamar Jackson, it would be safe to assume he is natural. No qb who is less than him can take any amount of drugs to compete with him

There are probably some somoan guys out there who can bench 400 plus. No amount of juice in the world could make me, my brother, half the guys out there as strong as them.

Genetics dominate professional sports, not drugs. The ones who take drugs take them because they can't compete naturally.

Brian Cushing was juiced to the gills he couldn't sniff ray Lewis or Patrick Willis jock.

I don't follow the NFL, I don't know any of the names you mention.

My point is that the best 100 meter athletes of the 80s were the most gifted of that generation, and they were all in juice, regardless of whether they were caught or not.

30 years later it is unrealistic to believe that today's best athletes can break the 100-meter record naturally.

Apply this to bodybuilding and then you will understand what I am saying.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I haven't read any of the replies yet but I will say this

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that he is natural. No amount of hard work or effort will make it possible for 99.9% of people to achieve his physique because they don't have the genetics that he does. It's just not realistic to view his physique as an attainable goal for a natty person, even if Paul himself is natty.

its weird to think we'd need to rule that out. I don't watch any professional sport and think what they do is attainable. Why would bodybuilding be any different for us average joes?

 

[qbkilla]

Good post but this is a bit of a broad generalizations.

Freaks taking drugs to become super freaks isn't uncommon in sports

Barry Bonds is one of the greatest batters in baseball; he would still be in that conversation if he never took the drugs

But he took them and smashed records. And nobody can blame him for that when a lot of his competition was as well

All these conversations remind me of a sarcastic Mark Rippetoe quote: ""Every person that's smaller & weaker than me has bad genetics and workethic, and every person bigger and stronger than me is on steroids"

Steroids are a boring lol; they are no secret at this point in any sport. And they definitely can't turn spongebob squarepants into superman. I find usually the folks most obsessed with pointing fingers of drug use are the ones with the least impressive response and physiques (usually it's younger kids who have only been training for a few years)

The ones who have built impressive physiques just smile and nod when they see an anomaly, and go about their day. Because they understand the one fundamental truth which is that your parents matter in this sport

Agree with most of what you said.

Bonds Is a good example. Say when he was naturally he was a 90 out of 100 as a baseball player. he took juice, now he was a 96 out of 100. Was it due to the AAS making him stronger? Probably a little bit. It also probably allowed him to recover better. I'd also bet when he started take AAS he started training more serious, eating better, etc. Whoever introduced him to AAS I'd bet also had him doing better things diet and nutrition wise as well and he probably trained better.

But he went from a 90/100 to a 96/lets say.

Now lets take BJ surhoff ( a skinny player for the orioles). Say he was a 70/100, he could have taken juice and been a 75 or 77/100, but on juice he was still far inferior to bonds before bonds ever juiced.


If we take a random segment of 1000 men. We then take the top 5 bottom genetics and the top 5 best genetics.

The bottom 5 take a gram of tren, primo, test, GH, anavar and slin and hire the best trainer.

The top 5 they just hit the gym 4 or so times a week however they want and eat a decent diet.

The top 5 will still look better than the bottom 5, be stronger, get more women, etc.

Were talking the top 1 percent vs bottom 1 percent.

Drugs help, genetics help 10x more. In my opinion.

We can juice Andy dalton to the gills and then tell pat Mahomes he can't lift for 2 years and has to eat Burger King at least 1x a day, Andy Dalton still won't sniff pat maholmes jock strap lol

 

[qbkilla]

I don't follow the NFL, I don't know any of the names you mention.

My point is that the best 100 meter athletes of the 80s were the most gifted of that generation, and they were all in juice, regardless of whether they were caught or not.

30 years later it is unrealistic to believe that today's best athletes can break the 100-meter record naturally.

Apply this to bodybuilding and then you will understand what I am saying.

I don't follow your post to be honest, I must have missed the point

If we take your high school class (assume you went to a large school) and we find the fastest guy and the slowest guy. We can juice up the slowest guy for a year and train him and tell the fastest guy to take it easy.

He will still be slower than the slower guy because hie superior genetics. No amount of juice and hard training can make the worst or the worst compete with the best of the best. The little train that thought it could, could not, and never will.

 

[Knight9]

In the 100 meter comparison are you saying natural athlete's can't complete with enhanced ones? I 200 percent disagree.

Look at the NFL.

Michael Strahan natural or reggie white (both chubby) were dominant. Vernon ghostin juiced to the gills couldn't sniff their jock.

Lamar Jackson, it would be safe to assume he is natural. No qb who is less than him can take any amount of drugs to compete with him

There are probably some somoan guys out there who can bench 400 plus. No amount of juice in the world could make me, my brother, half the guys out there as strong as them.

Genetics dominate professional sports, not drugs. The ones who take drugs take them because they can't compete naturally.

Brian Cushing was juiced to the gills he couldn't sniff ray Lewis or Patrick Willis jock.

I don't understand how you can sit there and just spout off that Strahan and White were natural when you have no inkling if they were or not..especially in those years/times.