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Hernon Old Training Method Revisited: 2022

Hello Professional Muscle,

I wanted to revisit the old Phil Hernon "5-10-15" training method. I am trying to find information on it since it is pretty difficult to come by and this was one of the only forums that had any insight on his methods. I figure now that now Phil unfortunately passed that it would not be out of line to discuss his methods in more detail now, especially for those of us interested in keeping the old bodybuilding styles alive.

I would really appreciate any insight from you guys who either worked with Phil or knew his methodology.

3 day on 1 off Split:

Day 1 Chest/Back/Calves
  • Dips or Decline Press 3 sets
  • Chins or Pulldown 3 sets
  • Bent Over DB Row 3 sets
  • Seated Calf Raises 3 sets
Day 2 Legs
  • Back Squat 3 sets
  • Stiff Leg Dead 3 sets
Day 3
  • DB Lateral Raises 3 sets
  • DB or EZ Bar Curl 3 sets
  • Close Grip BP or Dips 3 sets
  • Standing Calf Raises 3 sets

Day 4 - Off
Day 5 - Repeat Day 1

Set & Rep Approach:
  • 3 Working Sets per body part to Failure in "5-10-15" rep ranges. Exception was Back @ 6 sets (3 vertical pull + 3 horizontal pull)​
  • Reverse Pyramid Approach - warm up to a top set of about 5 reps for 1st working set to failure; Decrease weight about 10% for 2nd work set with rep goal of 10 reps; Decrease weight again about 10% for 3rd work set with rep goal of 15 reps.
  • Reps are done in more of a piston style continuous tension approach as opposed to resting a few seconds between reps near failure (i.e., Dorian Yates Failure)
  • Exercise Selection - primarily compound movements and basics.
Questions:

1. Can anyone share any other splits Phil may have recommended? For example, I believe he might have done something like as found in Big Beyond Belief:
  • Day 1 - Chest/Back/Shoulders
  • Day 2 - Arms/Legs
  • Day 3 - Off
  • Day 4 - Repeat Day 1
2. Was there a different set of prescribed rep ranges? Thought i read something like it was more like "5-7", "7-10", "11-15"? I realize in the grand scheme of things these don't mean much, but for accuracy's sake.

3. Did Phil recommend changing the order of exercises? For example, if Chest was hit before Back on Day 1, would Phil recommend hitting Back before chest on Day 5?

4. Was volume adjusted? For example, start with 3 sets for Chest and then eventually make it 4 working sets?

5. How was progressive overload applied? I would assume if for the "5-7" rep set if you hit 8 reps for failure, then simply add some weight next session. Rinse and repeat?

Lastly, I really appreciate any insight into Phil's old methods, I realize he might have rubbed folks the wrong way in his later years, but hope some can see past this and provide some details on this methods.

Thanks!
what you have listed on the 6 day looks bang on phill early stuff.
for info big beyond is
chest back bi day 1
leg delt tri day 2
then repeat if your doing the 6 day. The reps change
day 1/2 are 13-15 reps
day 3/4 are 10-12
day 5/6 are 8-10
going from memory but think I’m right. As the weeks increase volume increases by 1 set and rest time goes down 30 secs.
 
I know there often talk that Leo Costa took phils initial 3 set idea and added extra volume for the ramping.
I know fortitude is probably a much better routine but I’ve always liked the rigidity of BBB as it forces me to be strict and not waver

Yeah I bought fortitude and it is awesome! I add in some concepts from it to BBB and even if you don't follow the FT training model Dr Scott has invaluable info in the book.

I do agree I like BBB and am starting week 1 tomorrow and I also do the 4 day plan. I like the 6 but it's not possible for me to commit to 6 days of training.
 
Yeah I bought fortitude and it is awesome! I add in some concepts from it to BBB and even if you don't follow the FT training model Dr Scott has invaluable info in the book.

I do agree I like BBB and am starting week 1 tomorrow and I also do the 4 day plan. I like the 6 but it's not possible for me to commit to 6 days of training.
I have slightly tweaked things over the years. I only do quads twice a week and do a hamstring and glute dominant on one of the days
 
I hired Phil for two years straight years ago. The main workout he gave me was the first one listed by the OP.
For each exercise after warmups was failure between 5-7 reps, lower the weight 10% for the second set, lower it another 10% for the third. He said don't count reps for the 2nd and 3rd set because it doesn't matter. Just go to failure. He later had me up the first set reps to 10-12 but kept the 10% in subsequent sets the same.

I also talked to him about the Leo Costa stuff. He told me he was paid to do the videos and left it at that.
 


I believe that Phil worked Leo Costa Jr. on the book Big Beyond Belief.

I know nothing about the book, have never read it but he referenced it
a few times as being a result producing.
It's a great book/program... maybe the best one I've ever done. Even though it's both high frequency AND high volume (everything I don't believe in) it worked like a charm.

But Phil is not mentioned in the book. I think he just stole from the book to develop his own training methodology lol

If I'm not mistaken, it was Tom Platz that cooperated.

I still have the e-book and have personal experience with it so should you or anyone else have any questions about it 😉
 
Was Hernon involved in Big Beyond Belief? I had the PDF from years ago and it's a solid program I was going to start it up again and it has many themes from Hernon although I don't see his name on it and he isn't mentioned.

You can find the PDF anywhere...I think I may have paid for it but it's openly available so I'm not sure, maybe it was free. I only say that because I like to ensure we all pay for stuff like this to support our fellows in iron but this is very openly available like it was always free?
It was never free but you can indeed find the PDF through a simple Google search.

I also found it a great training program 👍
 
It was never free but you can indeed find the PDF through a simple Google search.

I also found it a great training program 👍

Yeah it was always a solid program. I do best on the 4 days a week routine and never had the ability to really try the 6 day schedule due to work travel but always wanted to.
 
Yeah it was always a solid program. I do best on the 4 days a week routine and never had the ability to really try the 6 day schedule due to work travel but always wanted to.
The 6 days a week routine rocks. I only did the once a day training though, twice a day training seemed a little excessive but who knows? You can't knock it till you've given it a fair chance.
 
I hired Phil for two years straight years ago. The main workout he gave me was the first one listed by the OP.
For each exercise after warmups was failure between 5-7 reps, lower the weight 10% for the second set, lower it another 10% for the third. He said don't count reps for the 2nd and 3rd set because it doesn't matter. Just go to failure. He later had me up the first set reps to 10-12 but kept the 10% in subsequent sets the same.

I also talked to him about the Leo Costa stuff. He told me he was paid to do the videos and left it at that.
Dens,

Thanks for the inside info from someone like yourself who worked with Phil. Appreciate that.
 
It's a great book/program... maybe the best one I've ever done. Even though it's both high frequency AND high volume (everything I don't believe in) it worked like a charm.

But Phil is not mentioned in the book. I think he just stole from the book to develop his own training methodology lol

If I'm not mistaken, it was Tom Platz that cooperated.

I still have the e-book and have personal experience with it so should you or anyone else have any questions about it 😉

You could very well be correct. Maybe I am just remembering him talking about the book. I could always go back and search his posts but I don’t have a year of my life to do so 😉.

I could see Tom cooperating but then again Tom went on to write his own book (which is very good) where I think he advocated a four day a week training program.
 
I paid Phil money for it, but that was in 2007. Shortly after that I stopped training with him because a lot of things changed in my life (moving, breaking up with my girlfriend, work). Therefore, I do not know if the training would have changed to meet my specific needs.

"Ideally, I would like a 6 day split. Day one would be chest, shoulders, triceps. Day 2 would be back, biceps, abs. Day 3 would be quads, hamstrings, calves.

For chest I want 3 sets of bench presses with dumbells. I want you to do them on the floor. Lay on the floor and do them. I want you to work your chest only here, not shoulders. Heavy to light. Warm up good, then go heavy to light, around 8-12 reps each set, just go heavy to light. I want you to do dips for triceps, 3 sets to failure each set, as many as you can. Lateral raises are next, 3 sets heavy to light. Then 3 sets of ab crunches, 3 sets to failure, make it burn. END OF DAY 1

Day 2, back and biceps. For back do 3 sets of bent over rows, heavy to light. Then 3 sets of pullups to failure. Wide grip pull ups first, then bring hands in a little closer for each set. Then biceps. Do 3 sets for biceps, dumbell curls. Heavy to light. Then do crunches, 3 sets to failure, make it burn really good.

Day 3, legs. 3 sets of squats, first set heavy, then lighter each set. Each set go lower down, The first set will be heavy and not very deep, go deeper each set and lighter each set. After 3 sets of squats, do hamsrtings. 1 set of stiff leg deadlifts, 1 set of leg curls, 1 set of hyper extensions. Go heavy on the first set, then lighter on the following sets. For calves do 3 sets, heavy to light. Do standing calves one workout, then seated calves the next time you train calves.

YES, ALL SETS TO FAILURE. NO FORCED REPS PLEASE. DO AS MANY REPS AS POSSIBLE, BUT TRY NOT TO GO SO LIGHT AS YOU ARE DOING OVER 15 REPS. BUT YES, JUST GO LIGHTER EACH SET BUT FAILURE EACH TIME, REPS MAY VARY."
Pretty much what I was doing with him during 2007. I'd call him and talk over the phone to make changes. Phil was always really nice and a mentor on the phone with me. I looked forward to calling him.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. Nice to keep some of this old school stuff alive.

3 sets to failure per bodypart sounds like nothing, but when frequency is high I would imagine that's where the magic lies.
It's plenty when you are training 6 days in a row. I was surprised at first. After about a year, I began adding in a few sets here and there because my body was adapted. Worked with Phil on that.
 
I hired Phil for two years straight years ago. The main workout he gave me was the first one listed by the OP.
For each exercise after warmups was failure between 5-7 reps, lower the weight 10% for the second set, lower it another 10% for the third. He said don't count reps for the 2nd and 3rd set because it doesn't matter. Just go to failure. He later had me up the first set reps to 10-12 but kept the 10% in subsequent sets the same.

I also talked to him about the Leo Costa stuff. He told me he was paid to do the videos and left it at that.
Were you going to true failure on those working sets? Like on squats for example? Phil said in a video that if you completed a squat in the top position you did not hit failure. In order to hit failure you needed to be at the bottom of the movement. Which sounds really dangerous, but I suppose you could dump the weight onto the safety rails. But goodness, getting pinned with say 405 for 5. Then getting pinned again with 365 and again with 335 sounds crazy.
 
I liked a lot of the concepts behind BBB. One thing I never liked was timing my rest periods. I see an advantage to doing so, and I see it can be used as another form of progressive overload (gradually shortening rest periods). But staring at the clock in between sets was always distasteful to me. I was more worried about the clock than I was about executing the exercise.
 
Were you going to true failure on those working sets? Like on squats for example? Phil said in a video that if you completed a squat in the top position you did not hit failure. In order to hit failure you needed to be at the bottom of the movement. Which sounds really dangerous, but I suppose you could dump the weight onto the safety rails. But goodness, getting pinned with say 405 for 5. Then getting pinned again with 365 and again with 335 sounds crazy.

I think these guys see these high-volume 15-20 sets per muscle group per week, and they forget many big humans were built on the DC 2 way split, which was 1 rest pause set per muscle group every 3rd or 4th day.

I think a touch more volume is more optimal for most, but the idea you HAVE to have at LEAST 12 sets a week for a muscle is just not true
 
I think these guys see these high-volume 15-20 sets per muscle group per week, and they forget many big humans were built on the DC 2 way split, which was 1 rest pause set per muscle group every 3rd or 4th day.

I think a touch more volume is more optimal for most, but the idea you HAVE to have at LEAST 12 sets a week for a muscle is just not true
Right, especially when you are talking balls to the wall, getting pinned to the ground on a WM set of squats. Here is a vid I love of a guy full squatting 405 for 42 reps. He almost passes out afterward. Could you imagine telling him, as he is rolling around on the ground that in order to grow his quads he needs 11 more sets like this one?
 
Were you going to true failure on those working sets? Like on squats for example? Phil said in a video that if you completed a squat in the top position you did not hit failure. In order to hit failure you needed to be at the bottom of the movement. Which sounds really dangerous, but I suppose you could dump the weight onto the safety rails. But goodness, getting pinned with say 405 for 5. Then getting pinned again with 365 and again with 335 sounds crazy.
Per Phil, each set was a continuous controlled rep stopping short of full stretch and full extension, keep the weight on the muscle and keep the weight moving. He said the set is done when you can't complete another rep in good form without pausing. I DID NOT take that to mean when I bottomed out.
 
Per Phil, each set was a continuous controlled rep stopping short of full stretch and full extension, keep the weight on the muscle and keep the weight moving. He said the set is done when you can't complete another rep in good form without pausing. I DID NOT take that to mean when I bottomed out.
Ahh ok. I was just quoting what he said in a more recent youtube post about failure. Your version is much more reasonable.
 

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