Jay Cutler finally reveals his past steroid cycles

[marssel]

Let's assume for a minute that in the aspect that these top end pros like Ronnie and Jay actually DID completely come off EVERYTHING (and not even TRT) for a few weeks after a heavy compete cycle. What is the wisdom is coming off COMPLETLY versus maintaining with TRT? Is this a receptor refreshening thing or some other kind of wisdom behind this? I always assumed it's smart to now allow your body to crash completely and just take an easy with true TRT (especially if you intent on getting back on juice and are not really caring for naturally recovering test levels, etc) and actually healthier to just stay on test.

This is corrrect, the main reason to come off is to maintain fertility. I did long cycles for say half of the last 2 decades, with long stretches on and off (years) at 40 I went into fertility my test dropped to actually 0 after a year 017, it took 3 years to get fertile and have my son, which still required IVF. During alll this I had the worst labs of my life, low test ROCKED MY BODY TO ITS CORE, who knows what the long term results are, I cycled back on and my labs went all back to normal so I’m all this the best piece of advice I can give is if you think this Is your life choice, mine with no regrets, then while young cycle off and freeze a few banks of semen with enough you can do IUI easily with your partner in the future, it’s a few hundred dollars a year. Had I done this for 20 years vs what I did it would’ve saved me say 60-70K.

 

[Dezzy]

My conversation with Jay was pretty funny actually, in regards to AAS he laughed and said "whatever man" some guys take a reasonable amount some guys take a lot, he said now GH that's a different story, take as much as you can afford! This is grade A pharmaceutical GH so 9iu a day of humatrope is some expensive shit! He did laugh about a certain pro being a walking bottle of test so I knew that guys dosages must be pretty damn high.


Not everyone will be able to handle the side effects of large dosages of steroids, it's an individual thing so we are not all the same, if I could handle 4 grams of gear I would have fucking done it!

Bodybuilding is a strange sport...a walking contradiction.

It requires pharmaceuticals to be successful, but still genetics is the ultimate determinator of success at the highest level. In fact, I think a lot of people are still confused about that on this very board!

 

[KillerStack]

What do you guys think, if you have experience, can you often guesstimate pretty accurately what someone is running? I think so, to a large degree sometimes. I sometimes see posts on IG with pics of some pro and then you have the comments of, "looks crazy but I fear for his health." Often it's experienced people saying it. Sometimes it's just too big, too swollen, too veiny, too quick, too good and you just "know." Regarding this line of thinking, I use Roelly as an example. At his most swole, was he moderate in his use? I know he has crazy genetics but I also see shit-your-pants dosages lol.

I'm the first to acknowledge the importance of genetics but sometimes they don't explain the whole story.

I didn't watch the video, just saw the comments here. But when I see, for example, Jay's "quad stomp" video I see extreme everything, crazy genes but interacting with some serious chemistry, moderation left far behind.

 

[Anabolic_Beast]

None. It's a bad idea. It's less healthy to come off than it is to bridge with a true TRT between cycles.

I am curious how they trained and what changes in their physiques they noticed once they came off though. Would have liked it if Greg asked Jay that.

Yeah that's exactly what I thought. Why work so hard and put all of that stuff into your body and then just come off everything and crash hard (and possibly create more health problems and strains on body) and lose most of it only to come back on and do it all over?
For fertility, like the other guy Marsell said, it's a doable strategy but now there's some discovery and bioscience that even for fertility its okay to just stay on try and just a mater of introducing HCG and or/HMG and even low dose climid while on staying on the test...no need to come off even for fertility possibly..and so many guys conceiving on cycle..etc..
Yeah..I wonder too how Jay and Ronnie can call them trained on crashed test levels..and what was going on in their minds as to why they were torturing themselves by coming off everything..

 

[luki7788]

I wouldn't believe they threw everything away and went down to zero, if that were the case they would be the same as Levron - that is, they would look like an average Joe weighing 200 pounds off season. Don't really believe everything people say - I'm not saying there is no% truth to it but it surely isn't all true

 

[Flex500]

Yeah that's exactly what I thought. Why work so hard and put all of that stuff into your body and then just come off everything and crash hard (and possibly create more health problems and strains on body) and lose most of it only to come back on and do it all over?
For fertility, like the other guy Marsell said, it's a doable strategy but now there's some discovery and bioscience that even for fertility its okay to just stay on try and just a mater of introducing HCG and or/HMG and even low dose climid while on staying on the test...no need to come off even for fertility possibly..and so many guys conceiving on cycle..etc..
Yeah..I wonder too how Jay and Ronnie can call them trained on crashed test levels..and what was going on in their minds as to why they were torturing themselves by coming off everything..

It's honestly not as bad as most you all think unless you are off for a long time. I came off late last May for fertility reasons and just came off cold turkey...didn't even have a proper hcg protocol in place (which was dumb because it set me back months to get my sperm count high). My test levels crashed hard but for a good three months or so I really didn't notice a difference in my physique. I kept training hard and eating good. Sure, I got softer but really if I had to do it all over again I would come off every every show 12-16 weeks or do a true low dose trt and I mean like no more than 100mgs a week.

I 100% get where you are coming from and a large part of me agrees (which is why I'd probably would say staying on 50-100mgs a week is probably best) but after doing this cold turkey thing it's made me rethink a lot. Of course, I only really do up to 200mgs anymore anyway so I'm long past it really mattering much.

Things started to turn for me around October where things started to really deteriorate, body fat was added faster, and I just lost more energy.

 

[thethinker48]

I wouldn't believe they threw everything away and went down to zero, if that were the case they would be the same as Levron - that is, they would look like an average Joe weighing 200 pounds off season. Don't really believe everything people say - I'm not saying there is no% truth to it but it surely isn't all true

Pretty sure Kevin could have walked around at 230+ on just TRT if he still trained and ate after shows

But he completely went the opposite direction and stopped everything cold turkey; hence his radical transformations

 

[alfresco]

Bodybuilding is a strange sport...a walking contradiction.

It requires pharmaceuticals to be successful, but still genetics is the ultimate determinator of success at the highest level. In fact, I think a lot of people are still confused about that on this very board!

Can you think of another ‘sport’ that ultimately requires pharmaceuticals to be successful?

I can’t off the top of head think of one sport excepting powerlifting and Olympic lifting. Cycling? I am not up to speed on sports so please help me out here.

Can anybody else think of any others?

 

[b-boy]

Pretty sure Kevin could have walked around at 230+ on just TRT if he still trained and ate after shows

But he completely went the opposite direction and stopped everything cold turkey; hence his radical transformations

This ^^^^ Levrone is a bad example to use @luki7788 as when the Olympia was over and the Europe grand prix he would go off everything, QUIT TRAINING, not eat 6-8 times per day and focus 100% into his band and music.

 

[Cabron]

if i recall correctly, i was watching a Cutler video where he was prepping for a Mr. Olympia

he said he would see his doctor every 2 weeks during that period.



im sure he felt this was necessary while only using a gram of gear lol

 

[Biggerp73]

then while young cycle off and freeze a few banks of semen with enough you can do IUI easily with your partner in the future, it’s a few hundred dollars a year. Had I done this for 20 years vs what I did it would’ve saved me say 60-70K.

No just do a very small dose of HCG or HMG once a week

Anyone who is on cycle should be doing that anyways

You should never let your testicles shut down. Always always always keep them healthy no matter what.

 

[Cito33189]

i recently re-watched some lee priest vids where he discusses his use.
his doses so low... but his genetics sooo good.
i kinda wanna believe him.
but other side of me says everyone in this sportr has a more is better attitude. cuz it usually pans out lol
jay is one of if not my fave iffb pro
edit: dying to know what Bboys opinion of that cycle is....

I’ve literally followed lee since I started. Everything he says I have followed and gotten similar results. Obv. Not to his extreme but I think people don’t take into account he was bodybuilding since he was like 9 competing at 13 years old.
Every time I come off I get fat sloppy. I look at myself and I’m like Jesus Christ how did I use to look like that. He says the same dam thing injectable winstrol he always said give him injectable winstrol. As soon as I take that shit my body morphs it’s absolutely mind blowing to me. I believe what lee says.

 

[nothuman]

if i recall correctly, i was watching a Cutler video where he was prepping for a Mr. Olympia

he said he would see his doctor every 2 weeks during that period.



im sure he felt this was necessary while only using a gram of gear lol

He never said he was only on a gram of gear pre contest. In fact, he said he ramped everything up pre contest.

 

[Cito33189]

None. It's a bad idea. It's less healthy to come off than it is to bridge with a true TRT between cycles.

I am curious how they trained and what changes in their physiques they noticed once they came off though. Would have liked it if Greg asked Jay that.

Your body composition changes no matter how hard you try. Your lifts dip but then go back up. Biggest thing is joint health. Joints feel way better on them off.

 

[marssel]

No just do a very small dose of HCG or HMG once a week

Anyone who is on cycle should be doing that anyways

You should never let your testicles shut down. Always always always keep them healthy no matter what.

If you’re doing competition cycles and taking weekly HCG and HMG all you will do is desensitize your testicles to those hormones over time. Now if you run short lighter cycles and you’re under 35 that will likely work but the cells especially the Leydig cells will get to where HCG has a very muted reaction and if you’re on 500 mg or more of test you’re testicles might stay a lil bigger with that but even if they turn on, it will be fore hours and the other 5-6 days of the week your boys will be shut off. I know guys who pop 2 5,000 iu kits every week who use lower dose cycles cuz they aren’t competitors and like blasting big wads which is why they juice and every time we go to start pct their labs show almost no endogenous test at first and generally zero LH and FSH at start of pct. Your theroy sounds good but in my experience it’s not accurate BUUUT if you’re in your 20s yes you’ll retain some of your testicular activity just very little and your sperm court will still be at 0 or barely above it. Mind you normal is in the tens of millions per ml. I’d save my money especially if you’re getting real HMG which is pricey.

 

[CafeL33]

I get riled up whenever these types of convos get started. One thing is that people discount what a massive effect pharma grade GH will have. I had loads of Humatrope at one point in my life and I had more gear than I could use in multiple lifetimes. I did 3ius of Humatrope 6 days a week for well over a year. I was also on 1200-1800 mg of Gear. I fairly easily went up to 252lbs at 12% BF. My first cycle lasted 2.5 years with the last year and a half on GH. There was a run with some Tren enanthate as well at 300mg/week but I never touched slin.

My main challenge is conditioning, not muscle gain. I remember eating 4000 calories a day and losing bodyfat. For somene with a naturally sluggish metabolism it was wild. I was not as dedicated as a pro. Why did I not take more? I was being responsible... bullshit. I simply couldn't handle more. The GH had given me such bad carpel tunnel that I couldn't hold a 10lbs weight anymore. It was constant pain. I am in awe when I hear of people using 9ius for long periods of time, I never could even get close to that dose.

I played in the 2000mg + range of gear but it made me feel ill and affected my performance and life severely. I had even experienced severe fatigue, appetite suppression and constipation (most likely liver strain). The ones with great genetics have an ability to tolerate high doses. I think this is where some of the rec drug use can come in. I knew guys who would shoot 7,000 mg a week trying to be pros. They looked and felt like crap. Rec drugs can make things tolerable for some of these guys who are trying to take more gear than their body can handle. As we know that strategy doesn't work so well in the end.

It is a synergy of the proper compounds and the ability to tolerate large doses that can make some pro size. Try 1000 mg of Test with 5 iu Pharma GH with some slin vs 4000mg of Test only and see what you look like. Steroids are only part of the equation. You will hear pros say consistency is key and it's true. Consistency in training, eating, sleeping/rest and consistency in pharma GH (as much as you can afford/handle). The rest gets thrown in and compounds get cycled in and out. And when they come off for short periods of time which I believe they do, they keep the GH in. GH always stays in. Coming off AAS with GH still in the system is not as bad a coming off everything.

Pros do lie about their dosages. Many of us (including myself) do the same thing kind of lying to ourselves really. Pros also like the downplay how much Tren they will use and what a strong effect it has especially in prep. Otherwise what Jay Cutler is saying is not all that far fetched.

 

[nothuman]

Your body composition changes no matter how hard you try. Your lifts dip but then go back up. Biggest thing is joint health. Joints feel way better on them off.

Yea I know but it would be particularly interesting to see Jay off for 12 weeks and compare to what we were used to him looking like

 

[Cito33189]

Yea I know but it would be particularly interesting to see Jay off for 12 weeks and compare to what we were used to him looking like

 

[thethinker48]

Can you think of another ‘sport’ that ultimately requires pharmaceuticals to be successful?

I can’t off the top of head think of one sport excepting powerlifting and Olympic lifting. Cycling? I am not up to speed on sports so please help me out here.

Can anybody else think of any others?

Cycling is waist deep in PED use

There was an analysis that if they handed the Tour De France trophy to the a natural cyclist, they would have to go down to 24 or 25th place in the final results (can't recall exactly)

Also can't forget Bjarne Riis; aka Mr. Sixty. He was a Danish cyclist who competed in the 96 Tour; they named him that because his Hematocrit usually sat at 60 during his competitive years lol

 

[Biggerp73]

If you’re doing competition cycles and taking weekly HCG and HMG all you will do is desensitize your testicles to those hormones over time. Now if you run short lighter cycles and you’re under 35 that will likely work but the cells especially the Leydig cells will get to where HCG has a very muted reaction and if you’re on 500 mg or more of test you’re testicles might stay a lil bigger with that but even if they turn on, it will be fore hours and the other 5-6 days of the week your boys will be shut off. I know guys who pop 2 5,000 iu kits every week who use lower dose cycles cuz they aren’t competitors and like blasting big wads which is why they juice and every time we go to start pct their labs show almost no endogenous test at first and generally zero LH and FSH at start of pct. Your theroy sounds good but in my experience it’s not accurate BUUUT if you’re in your 20s yes you’ll retain some of your testicular activity just very little and your sperm court will still be at 0 or barely above it. Mind you normal is in the tens of millions per ml. I’d save my money especially if you’re getting real HMG which is pricey.

I don't think that's accurate.

I'm talking about using as little as 500iu HCG once per week, or just a single 75iu vial of HMG per week.

At this dose, IMO, it's about as likely to cause desensitization as your natural HPTA is.

At least, that's what some endocrinologists who led this field have said in the past.

I know from my own personal experience in the past with never coming off cycle, for years, on both mega doses and TRT level doses, that either way, without HCG or HMG, my testicles shrunk, got cold to the touch, libido shrank to nothing ,suffered from ED, etc. But as little as 500iu HCG or 75iu HMG once per week, and they remained healthy, full, libido strong, etc. And it never stopped working or required a bigger dose.

Plus - HMG is actually pretty affordable. Direct on this board has it as low as just a few bucks per week, assuming you are doing the schedule I mentioned above.