Test levels came back too high on trt

[junker]

200 a week peak 10x dose, trough 5x dose roughly for most people,
mine would be 8x if i pinned sun and drew blood wed, so i'd be around your number too.
but, so what. they key is whats your FREE test level? u can be high total but low free in which case most of that total number isnt doin u any good. or bad.

 

[beast405]

200 a week peak 10x dose, trough 5x dose roughly for most people,
mine would be 8x if i pinned sun and drew blood wed, so i'd be around your number too.
but, so what. they key is whats your FREE test level? u can be high total but low free in which case most of that total number isnt doin u any good. or bad.

Free test was really high too. Doc called this morn he’s going to keep me at same dose since other bloods were good.

 

[beast405]

You don’t feel like shit on 125? Man under 200 my recovery is slow and my pumps are shit.

Yeah I don’t feel the greatest but don’t feel bad on 125mg. I lowered my dose because I was recovering from gyno surgery. Now I’m back in the gym so time to grow !!!

 

[alfresco]

The normal range of testosterone is reported as 350- 1200ng/dl.

Studies in the 1940's showed the average testosterone level to be
at 700 ng/dl, 300 ng/dl higher than for men today.

There are some estimates that the average male’s testosterone level
today ranges from 270 ng/DL to 700 ng/DL, one hundred years ago
the range was 800 to 2000!

Google is never wrong, right?

Regardless of the actual numbers above, numerous studies have shown
that testosterone levels are dropping somewhere around 1% per year.

 

[pistonpump]

The normal range of testosterone is reported as 350- 1200ng/dl.

Studies in the 1940's showed the average testosterone level to be
at 700 ng/dl, 300 ng/dl higher than for men today.

There are some estimates that the average male’s testosterone level
today ranges from 270 ng/DL to 700 ng/DL, one hundred years ago
the range was 800 to 2000!

Google is never wrong, right?

Regardless of the actual numbers above, numerous studies have shown
that testosterone levels are dropping somewhere around 1% per year.

I'm no expert but I'm willing to bet it comes from estrogen like compounds found in literally everything

 

[marssel]

Unless your bloodwork was really off (lipids mostly) I see no reason why he'd take such a drastic change without 6-12 months of tests. I'm going to stay on 150-200mg per week per doc's orders for the rest of my days. And that's well over 1000ng/dl for me.

I’m sure I could google it but why is it that we seem to have low hdl even if taking no estrogen drugs. I’m on just mod test and my total is around 180 but my hdl is 17, the Va says get it up but the ratio is ok so not to worry but I do. I take tons of omegas, cardio, etc. but my hdl has never been above 20 since I got on but even as a super fit 156 lb Marine who ran daily it was 30 at my exit physical. Do you think exercise activity lowers both?

 

[alfresco]

I'm no expert but I'm willing to bet it comes from estrogen like compounds found in literally everything

Thanks for that.

Are you implying/ do you suspect that the estrogen should could / should be high because it was not.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I’m sure I could google it but why is it that we seem to have low hdl even if taking no estrogen drugs. I’m on just mod test and my total is around 180 but my hdl is 17, the Va says get it up but the ratio is ok so not to worry but I do. I take tons of omegas, cardio, etc. but my hdl has never been above 20 since I got on but even as a super fit 156 lb Marine who ran daily it was 30 at my exit physical. Do you think exercise activity lowers both?

I'm not sure google would help. Why testosterone has a negative impact on lipids I believe is still debated. But all I can say is that men have always been more prone to heart disease while women have been more prone to blood clots. It's pretty obvious that the heart disease in men is caused at least in part by testosterone. How badly testosterone hits HDL is probably mostly genetic in my current view but made worse by high bodyfat.

For this reason I try to avoid an AI unless there are problematic symptoms of high estrogen like gyno or edema (the protective effects of estrogen on lipids vs the detrimental effects of high levels of testosterone). This logic may not be sound though, either. In studies, true replacement levels of testosterone caused inconclusive results on HDL. The closest I've ever seen are these little blurbs from 1983 I have saved in my notes:

James Semmens et al.
Metabolism
Volume 32, Issue 5, May 1983, Pages 428–432

Abstract

"We postulate that the sex hormones affect HDL-C levels by regulating the activities of two important enzymes involved in the production and catabolism of HDL, namely, lipoprotein lipase and hepatic endothelial lipase. Other factors contributing independently to variation in HDL-C levels in this study were, in men, age and triglyceride, and in women, apoprotein-HDL, triglyceride, systolic blood pressure, heart rate, body mass index, and triceps skinfold thickness. Plasma estradiol concentrations were not significantly associated in either sex."

 

[marssel]

I'm not sure google would help. Why testosterone has a negative impact on lipids I believe is still debated. But all I can say is that men have always been more prone to heart disease while women have been more prone to blood clots. It's pretty obvious that the heart disease in men is caused at least in part by testosterone. How badly testosterone hits HDL is probably mostly genetic in my current view but made worse by high bodyfat.

For this reason I try to avoid an AI unless there are problematic symptoms of high estrogen like gyno or edema (the protective effects of estrogen on lipids vs the detrimental effects of high levels of testosterone). This logic may not be sound though, either. In studies, true replacement levels of testosterone caused inconclusive results on HDL. The closest I've ever seen are these little blurbs from 1983 I have saved in my notes:

James Semmens et al.
Metabolism
Volume 32, Issue 5, May 1983, Pages 428–432

Abstract

"We postulate that the sex hormones affect HDL-C levels by regulating the activities of two important enzymes involved in the production and catabolism of HDL, namely, lipoprotein lipase and hepatic endothelial lipase. Other factors contributing independently to variation in HDL-C levels in this study were, in men, age and triglyceride, and in women, apoprotein-HDL, triglyceride, systolic blood pressure, heart rate, body mass index, and triceps skinfold thickness. Plasma estradiol concentrations were not significantly associated in either sex."

Thanks, I agree I think there is definitely a genetic component but outside that, I had no idea. I def have noticed when my bf goes up my triglycerides do too, but I can fast for 24 hours and they drop to under 100 for whatever that’s worth. Mine are very weird I’ve had 125 one month and 300 the next then back to 140 so again the highs scare me but bc they r inconsistent the docs don’t care. I did see during prep the use of AIs get my HDL very low even with an extremely low body fat. Thanks brother!

 

[pistonpump]

Thanks for that.

Are you implying/ do you suspect that the estrogen should could / should be high because it was not.

I was referring to the post about declining test levels in males compared to decades ago

 

[marssel]

I was referring to the post about declining test levels in males compared to decades ago

Oh yea men in their 30s now have T levels of men in their 50s compared to just a decade or two ago which is obviously diet related but I think shitty water and as I type on my iPhone also related to our tech saturated lives.

 

[j4ever]

Shot was on Sunday. Pulled bloods Wednesday. Crazy thing is I wasn’t even using as much as I’m prescribed. I’ve only been using 125mg a week.

of course it came back high, why did you not do a 7 day trough?

 

[M@NU]

what is the general consense on "optimal trt levels"?
i had bloodwork 2 weeks ago, Test was 546, e2 was 38
injecting 11,5mg test cyp daily (0,05ml of 230mg/ml) so roughly 80mg a week

 

[marssel]

what is the general consense on "optimal trt levels"?
i had bloodwork 2 weeks ago, Test was 546, e2 was 38
injecting 11,5mg test cyp daily (0,05ml of 230mg/ml) so roughly 80mg a week

Sounds low to me also consider the longer ester there you’re getting what 68 mg of actual test?

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

....wait, am I the only one that manipulates the fuck out of this?

 

[M@NU]

Sounds low to me also consider the longer ester there you’re getting what 68 mg of actual test?

yes, around that ballpark
but the multiplier makes sense, correct? (roughly 8)

 

[marssel]

yes, around that ballpark
but the multiplier makes sense, correct? (roughly 8)

I would think, in the end how you feel is what matters most, we’ll being, sleep, sex, and for me most of all pump and recovery. I can feel ok and fuck on low test but if I’m up where I’m getting good pumps and recover in 48-72 hours then life is good, I don’t want ok work outs, ok sex, and to be sore AF all week.

 

[Golden]

....wait, am I the only one that manipulates the fuck out of this?

In what way?

 

[Campeon]

I spread my 200mg/week of cypionate with 2 shots per week at 100mg each..

that will solve the testosterone levels from spiking...

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

In what way?

....I just make sure it's a good number (bloodwork) for the amount I want on the script....