Why are more people not doing extremely high protein diets?

[Elvia1023]

A few reasons but mainly people copy what others do and these days lower protein is in fashion and you have 101 experts stating you don't need high protein to grow and they aren't actually wrong. Now one of the reasons it's in fashion is because it's much easier. For most people it's extremely hard to eat very high protein. Carbs and fats are generally easier to eat in large amounts (calorie total). It's also very expensive to eat high protein so that's another factor. Lot's of people also struggle to digest high amounts of protein but in the right environment (slowly building up over years) and taking digestive aids it's much more doable.

Now there are many different ways up the mountain so for many they take the easier and cheaper route that is advertised all over so who can blame them. Nevertheless, I think most of us (me included) would get better results if we consumed higher amounts of quality protein consistently.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Very good question

Essentially, what you are asking is what happens to the ‘excess’ protein? Correct?

Excreted (unlikely?) or converted to fat? Hell, I don’t know. But an excess of anything your body will have to deal with.

Yes, correct. I'd think if you're a Super advanced , you'd need amounts in the 200+ range, but for others? How much of the protein is just being converted to glucose?

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Yes, correct. I'd think if you're a Super advanced , you'd need amounts in the 200+ range, but for others? How much of the protein is just being converted to glucose?

I've always questioned if it was a marketing scheme to sell more protein and amino products, as well.

 

[hawkmoon]

Yes, correct. I'd think if you're a Super advanced , you'd need amounts in the 200+ range, but for others? How much of the protein is just being converted to glucose?

Justin Harris is pretty adamant about this. He seems to believe that excess protein is just getting turned to glucose, so whynot just eat more carbs?
I don't know who is right, but I do know that I cannot eat more than 250g practically, including shakes.

 

[luki7788]

Justin Harris is pretty adamant about this. He seems to believe that excess protein is just getting turned to glucose, so whynot just eat more carbs?
I don't know who is right, but I do know that I cannot eat more than 250g practically, including shakes.

In fact, Justin says this in podcasts, but in practice, people coaching through him eat 1.5-2g / lbs, e.g. Ben Pollack in the diet he showed in the Fuad podcast, there were 6 meals of 75g of protein and it is known that justin counts only complete protein

 

[m87r]

Yeah Justin is not "low" protein.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Very good question

Essentially, what you are asking is what happens to the ‘excess’ protein? Correct?

Excreted (unlikely?) or converted to fat? Hell, I don’t know. But an excess of anything your body will have to deal with.

Converted to fat.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Keep in mind these studies don't go up to the protein intakes us bodybuilders eat.

Of course 120 gr is going to be better than 40 or 80 gr of protein per day.

But I have yet to see a study that concluded 500 gr protein is better than 250 gr just to give you an idea.

The studies don't go up to the extremes bodybuilders go up to.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Keep in mind these studies don't go up to the protein intakes us bodybuilders eat.

Of course 120 gr is going to be better than 40 or 80 gr of protein per day.

But I have yet to see a study that concluded 500 gr protein is better than 250 gr just to give you an idea.

The studies don't go up to the extremes bodybuilders go up to.

For the record, I'm not saying 500 gr ISN'T better than 250 gr. We just don't know because it hasn't been studied in super high amounts.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

If you consume 3,250 cals from 250 g protein plus 20 grams bcaas and eaas, I would think rest from carbs , and fat would be better for muscle growth than
500 g protein , 150 g carbs and 50 g fat, as this is better suited for fatloss. Yes, fiber is important for many things. That latter is extreme and very few people will even try it.

 

[Brock456]

In fact, Justin says this in podcasts, but in practice, people coaching through him eat 1.5-2g / lbs, e.g. Ben Pollack in the diet he showed in the Fuad podcast, there were 6 meals of 75g of protein and it is known that justin counts only complete protein

I was going to mention Justin’s take on this.

I forget his reasoning. But he basically said your body can only process x amount of protein per hour. No need for all that excessive protein.

He had me on 75gr protein per meal for 6 meals. Protein was only counted as direct protein.

 

[qbkilla]

I've always questioned if it was a marketing scheme to sell more protein and amino products, as well.

Although I'm a fan of high protein and i would get at least 300 and kind of laugh when someone takes 5 supplements and does high volume and peptides to "optimize their potential" yet they think 1.5g per lb is sufficient, I do agree the supplements companies probably are trying to drive up demand for protein.

Picture 2 guys
Guy a eats 350g low volume, trains hard, no supplements, focus on 8 hours sleep, no stress

Guy b eats 180g high volume evidence based optimal routine, pre workout, 4 peptides, 5 key supplements , spends time on his phone researching new supplements and training studies each week and gets 6 hours sleep

One of these is stepping over hundred dollar bills to pick up quarters lol

 

[thedorkyd1]

I was going to mention Justin’s take on this.

I forget his reasoning. But he basically said your body can only process x amount of protein per hour. No need for all that excessive protein.

He had me on 75gr protein per meal for 6 meals. Protein was only counted as direct protein.

No need for all that excessive protein? What is excessive protein to you then? Because thats 450g of direct protein, at least 500g counting incidentals

 

[Corgopop]

Yes, correct. I'd think if you're a Super advanced , you'd need amounts in the 200+ range, but for others? How much of the protein is just being converted to glucose?

Does this study not show that clearly more than 200 doesn’t just convert to glucose?... it improved body comp

 

[Cerberus777]

I think it depends on how much muscle you have, and how much gear you're on to utilize the extra protein. But it takes a lot more of both to build and maintain 250lbs vs 180lbs.

 

[Mountolympus]

in the last period i prefer use moderate protein with eaa for less stress on kidneys and surely less expensive

 

[Brock456]

No need for all that excessive protein? What is excessive protein to you then? Because thats 450g of direct protein, at least 500g counting incidentals

Here’s the explanation from Justin from his book that I was referring to…..
@luki7788 @TheOtherOne55



“you eat more Calories than you burn, you'll store those Calories in the body (typically as fat... but if you're depleted of glycogen, some Calories can be stored as glycogen. A very small portion can be stored as protein (new muscle), but the maximum case of this is about 20-25g per day. People might want to think there's more to the equation, but there isn't--conservation of energy is one of the most powerful laws of science. Every physicist alive wants to prove it wrong. If you can violate it even one time, it's a guaranteed Nobel prize. But.... no one would even care about the Nobel prize, because if you can violate it you can solve the energy crisis and become a trillionaire…. many times over. So, ALL that matters is that you eat less Calories than you burn.
Adding more protein is more Calories--which means you won't be burning stored fat, but storing MORE fat instead. I know people think that eating protein will turn to muscle--but that’s not the case either. You can do the math yourself. You’ve seen many people who claim to be eating 500g of protein per day, right? 500g is 1.1 POUNDS. If you were actually using that protein for muscle growth you'd be gaining 1.1 POUNDS of muscle per day.... or in other words, you'd be gaining over 400lbs of muscle per year. Since you're not over 500lbs ripped after 1 year of training, I think it's safe to say most of that protein wasn't being used to build muscle. So how much is being used to build muscle? How much muscle did you add last year? Let's go on the high end and say you're going to add 25lbs of muscle per year. (Even that isn't possible forever, because you'd be gaining 75lbs of muscle every 3 years and 125lbs of muscle every 5 years. I've been training almost 25 years, and I can guarantee you I haven't gained 625lbs of muscle.) But let's say you're a super freak and will be bigger than any body builder in the world in just a few years.... so you are going to gain 25lbs of muscle every year. Well—you and your “super freak” growth rate of 25lbs of muscle per year is a result of converting ONLY 30g of protein per day to new muscle. Yes—25 pounds of muscle growth per year works out to 0.068lbs per day... or 30 GRAMS per day. That means, that even if you are the greatest muscle building human in the history of the world and will gain 300lbs of pure muscle every 10 years... you're still only converting 30gr of protein to muscle each day.”

— Comprehensive Performance Nutrition: Volume 2 by Justin Harris, Brad Hull, et al.

 

[luki7788]

Here’s the explanation from Justin from his book that I was referring to…..
@luki7788 @TheOtherOne55



“you eat more Calories than you burn, you'll store those Calories in the body (typically as fat... but if you're depleted of glycogen, some Calories can be stored as glycogen. A very small portion can be stored as protein (new muscle), but the maximum case of this is about 20-25g per day. People might want to think there's more to the equation, but there isn't--conservation of energy is one of the most powerful laws of science. Every physicist alive wants to prove it wrong. If you can violate it even one time, it's a guaranteed Nobel prize. But.... no one would even care about the Nobel prize, because if you can violate it you can solve the energy crisis and become a trillionaire…. many times over. So, ALL that matters is that you eat less Calories than you burn.
Adding more protein is more Calories--which means you won't be burning stored fat, but storing MORE fat instead. I know people think that eating protein will turn to muscle--but that’s not the case either. You can do the math yourself. You’ve seen many people who claim to be eating 500g of protein per day, right? 500g is 1.1 POUNDS. If you were actually using that protein for muscle growth you'd be gaining 1.1 POUNDS of muscle per day.... or in other words, you'd be gaining over 400lbs of muscle per year. Since you're not over 500lbs ripped after 1 year of training, I think it's safe to say most of that protein wasn't being used to build muscle. So how much is being used to build muscle? How much muscle did you add last year? Let's go on the high end and say you're going to add 25lbs of muscle per year. (Even that isn't possible forever, because you'd be gaining 75lbs of muscle every 3 years and 125lbs of muscle every 5 years. I've been training almost 25 years, and I can guarantee you I haven't gained 625lbs of muscle.) But let's say you're a super freak and will be bigger than any body builder in the world in just a few years.... so you are going to gain 25lbs of muscle every year. Well—you and your “super freak” growth rate of 25lbs of muscle per year is a result of converting ONLY 30g of protein per day to new muscle. Yes—25 pounds of muscle growth per year works out to 0.068lbs per day... or 30 GRAMS per day. That means, that even if you are the greatest muscle building human in the history of the world and will gain 300lbs of pure muscle every 10 years... you're still only converting 30gr of protein to muscle each day.”

— Comprehensive Performance Nutrition: Volume 2 by Justin Harris, Brad Hull, et al.

I know the entire book by Justin very well and I know this part of it. But that doesn't change the fact that Justin uses high protein in his diets

 

[Brock456]

I know the entire book by Justin very well and I know this part of it. But that doesn't change the fact that Justin uses high protein in his diets

What do you consider “high” though?

400gr?
500gr?
600gr?

 

[luki7788]

What do you consider “high” though?

400gr?
500gr?
600gr?

as I wrote 1.5-2g / lbs, this is the amount of protein that Justin uses for most of his clients