How important do you believe the pump is?

[Big Dave Smith]

People who heavily lean towards one or the other… that’s just all they understand.

People learn just enough to get to where they need to be. Couple that with good genetics, drugs, and adherence to a reasonable bodybuilding style diet… they grow into larger than average humans who have big personalities and the need to be correct.

Which side of the cube is most important? That’s what this conversation is sort of like.

 

[alfresco]

Never chased the pump, consistently made progress with the weights and ended up happy enough with what i accomplished.

Chasing it is one thing. It’s just that people don’t stop when they catch it.

 

[mslmn]

a pump doesn't always mean you are breaking down muscle fibers for growth. i can get a crazy pump doing very light weight for high reps, probably won't illicit any growth. now if you are doing german volume training like milos has his guys do you are in a way progressivly overloading and shocking the muscle.

so it all depends on how the pump is achevied i guess.

German Volume Training is 1 excercise 10 sets of 10 if I'm not mistaken. In the few videos I've seen, Milos is training his clients with giant sets.

 

[buck]

Chasing it is one thing. It’s just that people don’t stop when they catch it.

It seemed i got the best pumps after a couple sets with a fairly light weight then it faded if i kept going. I never did stop then so i can't say i could have done well if i would have quit at that time. I always had a lot more strength and ambition left.

 

[alfresco]

It seemed i got the best pumps after a couple sets with a fairly light weight then it faded if i kept going. I never did stop then so i can't say i could have done well if i would have quit at that time. I always had a lot more strength and ambition left.

It has been said ‘don’t work past the pump’. And I agree.

Get it and move on. There comes a point of diminishing returns.

As you know, a pump is good, it just isn’t the end all, be all.

Eventually it all comes down to progressive resistance. A big pump will only take you so far.

 

[airman]

A pump doesn't mean having to use light weights.

You can get a pump on a bodypart using heavy weights and going to failure.

Let's say bench pressing to failure.
You can bench press 315lbs engaging your chest and do 8 reps to failure and get a huge pump in your pecs.
You can bench press 315lbs to complete failure but instead of engaging chest, you are just using whatever you need to move the weight. No pump or not much pump in the chest.

What I think Mike means, instead of just moving weight, not feelign a pump in the muscle you worked, but "hey you moved that weight for 10 reps, so have to increase the weight"; Its more important to actually feel the target muscle having worked, and the simplest way is to feel it pumped. Too many people focus on "getting stronger" even though they are barely working the target muscle.

Increasing the weight should not be the be-all and end-all goal of a bodybuilder. Hypertrophy of a muscle should be.
And yes, you can work a muscle, fill it with blood and get skin splitting pumps and progress in weight from workout to workout. It's not one or the other.

But if you go and have a chest day or a back day, and you don't feel the slighest pump in your pecs, or your lats, I wouldn't consider it a productive bodybuilding workout.

 

[Biggerp73]

Increasing the weight should not be the be-all and end-all goal of a bodybuilder. Hypertrophy of a muscle should be.

Definitely not the be-all and end-all. This isn't powerlifting. But when guys dismiss strength, saying, "your muscle doesn't know how much weight your lifting", I laugh thinking about how the women they are trying to look sexy for, would think of their comments. Big muscle can't lift shit. Sexy until the girl finds out your muscles are just for show and skinny blue collar guys can out work you.

But if you go and have a chest day or a back day, and you don't feel the slighest pump in your pecs, or your lats, I wouldn't consider it a productive bodybuilding workout.

Not every workout in a bodybuilding routine needs to be geared towards hypertrophy. Sometimes you might need to spend a macrocycle building up strength so that when you go back to a traditional hypertrophy focused routine you can use bigger weights and break through a platue

 

[iron lifter]

I didn't know Milos has his guys do gvt. Is this the Charles poliquin method? I wonder how he incorporates his giant sets within that program?

i assumed it was that, could be his on version of it. but giant sets and supersets. not sure if he does that closer to a show or even in the off season. but he does pair his intraworkout nutrition and slin with volume training and hyper something and fasica stretching?

 

[fisther69]

Think it depends on how on point your eating is and how much your taking

 

[trainlikeaboss]

Definitely not the be-all and end-all. This isn't powerlifting. But when guys dismiss strength, saying, "your muscle doesn't know how much weight your lifting", I laugh thinking about how the women they are trying to look sexy for, would think of their comments. Big muscle can't lift shit. Sexy until the girl finds out your muscles are just for show and skinny blue collar guys can out work you.

I laugh thinking that anyone’s reason for lifting is either to look sexy for women, or to impress them with how much weight they can lift. (Also, in what scenario are you ever randomly competing against a “blue collar” guy in a weight lifting competition, with a woman you are trying to impress there to witness who is stronger? What a weird thing to think of.) I guess everyone has their own motivations and that could be a reason for some. As for myself, I couldn’t give a shit about either. I did powerlifting because it was something different and it was fun. Most women didn’t give a shit how much I could lift, or if they knew, they just wondered why I would want to lift so much. It’s not like they saw 500 lbs on the bar and panties started dropping. I want to put on size because I envisioned a goal when I first got into it, and I’ve been chasing that ever since. Never satisfied. Never had anything to do with thinking it was “sexy” or trying to get women.

A pump doesn't mean having to use light weights.

You can get a pump on a bodypart using heavy weights and going to failure.
But if you go and have a chest day or a back day, and you don't feel the slighest pump in your pecs, or your lats, I wouldn't consider it a productive bodybuilding workout.

Exactly this. Only scenario I can see not getting a pump is using bad form and/or really low rep ranges the whole time. I would think a heavy set of 10-20 reps is going to get you a pump unless you need carbs or hydration. I don’t think anyone is out there just doing super light workouts with like 50 reps or something just trying to get pumped the whole time and not using decent weights.

 

[Biggerp73]

. Never had anything to do with thinking it was “sexy” or trying to get women.

Ok..

 

[trainlikeaboss]

Ok..

That’s my reaction as well to your whole ME GET BIG SO WOMEN THINK ME SEXY. ME NEED TO BE STRONGER THAN BLUE COLLAR GUY TO PROVE MUSCLE NOT FOR SHOW scenario

 

[qbkilla]

For about a year I trained fasted. I actually got a better pump than with a normal high carb pre workout meal. Can anyone explain how this makes sense?

 

[Hammer4]

Pumps are physically rewarding. Moving up in weight is mentally rewarding.

 

[airman]

For about a year I trained fasted. I actually got a better pump than with a normal high carb pre workout meal. Can anyone explain how this makes sense?

I've worked out fasted in the past and experienced some decent pumps. I think you still manage to get a pump fasted is because just because you haven't eaten for a few hours doesn't mean you are depeleted. Your muscles are still loaded with glycogen from previous meals (unless on keto, or very low carb and in a deficeit). Also, could be the case (as it was for me a few times), once you adjust to being fasted you tend to actually have better workouts as you don't feel as sluggish. Myself I used to have a coffee or two and be ready to go, feeling energetic. More energy, harder workouts, lest rest, more pumps is my broscience guess.

 

[Biggerp73]

That’s my reaction as well to your whole ME GET BIG SO WOMEN THINK ME SEXY. ME NEED TO BE STRONGER THAN BLUE COLLAR GUY TO PROVE MUSCLE NOT FOR SHOW scenario

Yes bro, your motivation to get muscular, shredded, and strong, has absolutely nothing to do with the opposite sex. Of course it doesn't. That would make you a total simp. And you are the player of all players, never motivated by women. That would be beneath you.

 

[trainlikeaboss]

Yes bro, your motivation to get muscular, shredded, and strong, has absolutely nothing to do with the opposite sex. Of course it doesn't. That would make you a total simp. And you are the player of all players, never motivated by women. That would be beneath you.

Considering I was already married, and had a child when I decided to start lifting, no, I wasn’t chasing women.

 

[Biggerp73]

Considering I was already married, and had a child when I decided to start lifting, no, I wasn’t chasing women.

As if married people no longer care about their personal attractiveness. Get real.

 

[trainlikeaboss]

As if married people no longer care about their personal attractiveness. Get real.

At that point I had never been interested in fitness, and certainly never thought I needed to be muscular to be considered attractive. I had always had success with women without it. So again, already being married to someone who never once cared if I worked out, no, I did not start lifting weights to attract women.

That may be some people’s motivation and that’s fine for them. Just never was mine.

 

[Biggerp73]

At that point I had never been interested in fitness, and certainly never thought I needed to be muscular to be considered attractive. I had always had success with women without it. So again, already being married to someone who never once cared if I worked out, no, I did not start lifting weights to attract women.

That may be some people’s motivation and that’s fine for them. Just never was mine.

"You don't need muscles or strength to attract women"

Yeah man, we all know that.

You really lie to yourself and tell yourself that your lifting has nothing to do with your appearance and wanting to be attractive for other people...

I mean, you realize this doesn't mean you want to cheat on your wife, right? It just means you are a normal human being who likes to be liked by others. Just like every married person. We don't all the sudden become completely disinterested in whether other people find us attractive simply because we found our spouse. We want to be liked by others. We want to be presentable, handsome, etc.

You are lying to yourself if you think trying to get shredded and bodybuilding has nothing to do with wanting others to admire your appearance.