Eating For Size

[Golgo13]

To add some clarity:

The article has been thrown under the bus as it seems to attempt to justify eating junk and getting fat. It does not. I read it again. I still don't like the way its worded though.

If you aren't hungry and are forcing food down your throat you aren't going to gain anything but fat. You need to lift SO YOU ARE hungry. Even then I still have days where I only eat one meal, just because I wasn't hungry at all. Now, since we are sharing personal stories, I don't consider myself anyone who should be giving much advice around here as I am no BBer I am just echoing what I have learned from Phil as it is really the only good diet advice I have ever received.

Robot... Please stop. Win some contests before you start calling people out. I am not sure if you are a beginner with weights, but you have to have some success before you will be credible as an authority.

 

[EDED]

To add some clarity:

The article has been thrown under the bus as it seems to attempt to justify eating junk and getting fat. It does not. I read it again. I still don't like the way its worded though.

If you aren't hungry and are forcing food down your throat you aren't going to gain anything but fat. You need to lift SO YOU ARE hungry. Even then I still have days where I only eat one meal, just because I wasn't hungry at all. Now, since we are sharing personal stories, I don't consider myself anyone who should be giving much advice around here as I am no BBer I am just echoing what I have learned from Phil as it is really the only good diet advice I have ever received.

Robot... Please stop. Win some contests before you start calling people out. I am not sure if you are a beginner with weights, but you have to have some success before you will be credible as an authority.

but he doesnt want to compete, i think thats what he said,,,he just wants to be big,,,thats not bb imo.

so i dont know why bb's and non-bb's are arguing here,,,of course they will disagree.

 

[PsyT]

To add some clarity:

The article has been thrown under the bus as it seems to attempt to justify eating junk and getting fat. It does not. I read it again. I still don't like the way its worded though.

If you aren't hungry and are forcing food down your throat you aren't going to gain anything but fat. You need to lift SO YOU ARE hungry. Even then I still have days where I only eat one meal, just because I wasn't hungry at all. Now, since we are sharing personal stories, I don't consider myself anyone who should be giving much advice around here as I am no BBer I am just echoing what I have learned from Phil as it is really the only good diet advice I have ever received.

Robot... Please stop. Win some contests before you start calling people out. I am not sure if you are a beginner with weights, but you have to have some success before you will be credible as an authority.

curious about how you eat one meal when you deadlift and or squat that day!?!? I am hungry as shit after going all out on either of those lifts! Are you not pushing hard enough!!! (no offense just honestly curious ).

 

[Golgo13]

curious about how you eat one meal when you deadlift and or squat that day!?!? I am hungry as shit after going all out on either of those lifts! Are you not pushing hard enough!!! (no offense just honestly curious ).

Great question.

There are two kinds of workouts I do. Some where I go heavy, and most where I go light. Sort of a periodization. I get hungry on the light days, but the heavy days only come around every 17 days or so. I am hungry that day, but also for a few consecutive days after.

 

[robot]

Eating for Size:

I think the question "Are you a bodybuilder?" is pretty important.

I'm not actually interested in engaging in the sport of bodybuilding.

I'm extremely interested in diet, training, and supplementation but I am more interested in being big and strong. I'd like a good physique that is not sloppy but the emphasis on visual conditioning doesn't matter much to me at all.

When I am engaging in a dialogue on eating for size I am indifferent as to whether I gain some fat along the way. My focus is whether it will put meat on my bones quickly and efficiently. At over 35 pounds of lean muscle added in less than 2 years I think I have been quite successful to date but of course it's getting harder. So far the significant success that I have had is with excess calories (gomad).

Claims of being able to add significant muscle without this level of excess calories are extremely interesting but both hard to understand or even believe.

I am certain that I'm not alone in this perspective.

 

[natabolic]

while everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

but he doesnt want to compete, i think thats what he said,,,he just wants to be big,,,thats not bb imo.

so i dont know why bb's and non-bb's are arguing here,,,of course they will disagree.

bodybuilding is the building up of muscular tissue through weight training and diet.

COMPETITIVE bodybuilding is a sport, while bodybuilding is a lifestyle. one can be a bodybuilder without competing.

 

[bigguns078]

if you are lifting brutally heavy weight with mind popping intensity with a lil cardio on your off days you will be fucking starving!

I think everyone here would love to see a training video of you b-boy.. Im sure you throw around some heavy poundages..

 

[phatkid77]

well, this freak is 288 and when he dieted he said he started at 3800 cals.... not sure what off season total was....

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/members-photos/23926-5-weeks-out.html

but i think to many over eat to get big..body can only handle so much...

i think max is 5500 -6500 cals......with the correct ratios.... i think prep guys are realizing this, or atleast know it..

 

[the_warrior]

Hunger can be caused by a variety of factors; make sure you're feeding the right ones.

If it's blood-sugar / insulin mediated, you may not want to blindly feed it (but rather take a look at how your overall diet and macros are set up).

How do you tell, any rule of thumb?

 

[buselmo]

Ok, since i've seen many people i've talked to about this issue view this topic and not say a damn word... i'm gonna say it myself..
what i'm going to say here isn't "science" or any crap like that... it's just the results of a pissed off dude who wasted 3 years of his life trying to gain that "magical" lean muscle without the added fat everyone's talking about, but fail to show...

3 years... what do I have to show for it? 8 lbs... 8 lbs of muscle that i could've gained in 3 months instead of 3 years. keep in my mind, i was told to even double my doses i was taking (and did) because i've reached my "limit" on how much i can gain on that dose... bullshit...
Unless you are a genetic freak who can gain pure muscle by breathing... and hell, even most pros aren't like that... you will have to do it the old fashion way. calories! and lots of'em.
all of you... look at how you gained the majority of your muscle mass... really... if you're gonna say "I ate clean for 5 years and this is how i gained it"... i'm betting it's bullshit. cuz it never happens that way... you gained all that weight by eating like a fucking maniac (and the only thing you cooked up at home was probably a protein shake with peanut butter) and got in 1.5-2 grams of protein/lb per day and over 20 cals per lb. and then you spent 5 years eating clean and "refining" your body... whatever the fuck that means.

6 months as a natural, and i gained 14 lbs of muscle after my 3rd year of training... 3 years of being on retarded doses (to me, 1500 mg for my size is retarded) and i only gained 8 lbs... and i've worked harder than i ever have...
once i started with the junk crap last year... i put on 4 of those 8 lbs while prepping for a contest.

Really... look at all the people who "cleaned up their act" and went on a clean offseason... regardless of doses they used... i see most of them got smaller and look worse. I can give examples but i don't want to hurt anyone's feeling who actually think they are looking better.

believe what you want to believe... but this whole "overeating" crap... i would call eating a high fat/high carb/low protein diet crappy overeating that will contribute nothing to your gains (basically the ice cream and olive oil diet... LOL)... eating pizzas, candy, lots of carbs, try to minimize fats, make sure to get 2 grams/lb of protein and thats a fucking anabolic diet...

i really laughed hard a couple of months ago when people were on someone's ass because his friend had some waffles and pizza in his offseason diet while getting in 500 grams of protein...

you wanna waste a couple of years following those measly 2-3 lbs of muscle per year while working really hard all year long like i did? go ahead... be my guest... you wanna live life and enjoy it for 6-8 months, and diet like you're about to die for 4-6 months of the year and put on 10-15 lbs in one year? don't do this "clean" crap...

it's up to you.

 

[ConanX]

Ok, since i've seen many people i've talked to about this issue view this topic and not say a damn word... i'm gonna say it myself..
what i'm going to say here isn't "science" or any crap like that... it's just the results of a pissed off dude who wasted 3 years of his life trying to gain that "magical" lean muscle without the added fat everyone's talking about, but fail to show...

3 years... what do I have to show for it? 8 lbs... 8 lbs of muscle that i could've gained in 3 months instead of 3 years. keep in my mind, i was told to even double my doses i was taking (and did) because i've reached my "limit" on how much i can gain on that dose... bullshit...
Unless you are a genetic freak who can gain pure muscle by breathing... and hell, even most pros aren't like that... you will have to do it the old fashion way. calories! and lots of'em.
all of you... look at how you gained the majority of your muscle mass... really... if you're gonna say "I ate clean for 5 years and this is how i gained it"... i'm betting it's bullshit. cuz it never happens that way... you gained all that weight by eating like a fucking maniac (and the only thing you cooked up at home was probably a protein shake with peanut butter) and got in 1.5-2 grams of protein/lb per day and over 20 cals per lb. and then you spent 5 years eating clean and "refining" your body... whatever the fuck that means.

6 months as a natural, and i gained 14 lbs of muscle after my 3rd year of training... 3 years of being on retarded doses (to me, 1500 mg for my size is retarded) and i only gained 8 lbs... and i've worked harder than i ever have...
once i started with the junk crap last year... i put on 4 of those 8 lbs while prepping for a contest.

Really... look at all the people who "cleaned up their act" and went on a clean offseason... regardless of doses they used... i see most of them got smaller and look worse. I can give examples but i don't want to hurt anyone's feeling who actually think they are looking better.

believe what you want to believe... but this whole "overeating" crap... i would call eating a high fat/high carb/low protein diet crappy overeating that will contribute nothing to your gains (basically the ice cream and olive oil diet... LOL)... eating pizzas, candy, lots of carbs, try to minimize fats, make sure to get 2 grams/lb of protein and thats a fucking anabolic diet...

i really laughed hard a couple of months ago when people were on someone's ass because his friend had some waffles and pizza in his offseason diet while getting in 500 grams of protein...

you wanna waste a couple of years following those measly 2-3 lbs of muscle per year while working really hard all year long like i did? go ahead... be my guest... you wanna live life and enjoy it for 6-8 months, and diet like you're about to die for 4-6 months of the year and put on 10-15 lbs in one year? don't do this "clean" crap...

it's up to you.

Thank you for this post.

Great thread btw.

 

[mike1107]

Ok, since i've seen many people i've talked to about this issue view this topic and not say a damn word... i'm gonna say it myself..
what i'm going to say here isn't "science" or any crap like that... it's just the results of a pissed off dude who wasted 3 years of his life trying to gain that "magical" lean muscle without the added fat everyone's talking about, but fail to show...

3 years... what do I have to show for it? 8 lbs... 8 lbs of muscle that i could've gained in 3 months instead of 3 years. keep in my mind, i was told to even double my doses i was taking (and did) because i've reached my "limit" on how much i can gain on that dose... bullshit...
Unless you are a genetic freak who can gain pure muscle by breathing... and hell, even most pros aren't like that... you will have to do it the old fashion way. calories! and lots of'em.
all of you... look at how you gained the majority of your muscle mass... really... if you're gonna say "I ate clean for 5 years and this is how i gained it"... i'm betting it's bullshit. cuz it never happens that way... you gained all that weight by eating like a fucking maniac (and the only thing you cooked up at home was probably a protein shake with peanut butter) and got in 1.5-2 grams of protein/lb per day and over 20 cals per lb. and then you spent 5 years eating clean and "refining" your body... whatever the fuck that means.

6 months as a natural, and i gained 14 lbs of muscle after my 3rd year of training... 3 years of being on retarded doses (to me, 1500 mg for my size is retarded) and i only gained 8 lbs... and i've worked harder than i ever have...
once i started with the junk crap last year... i put on 4 of those 8 lbs while prepping for a contest.

Really... look at all the people who "cleaned up their act" and went on a clean offseason... regardless of doses they used... i see most of them got smaller and look worse. I can give examples but i don't want to hurt anyone's feeling who actually think they are looking better.

believe what you want to believe... but this whole "overeating" crap... i would call eating a high fat/high carb/low protein diet crappy overeating that will contribute nothing to your gains (basically the ice cream and olive oil diet... LOL)... eating pizzas, candy, lots of carbs, try to minimize fats, make sure to get 2 grams/lb of protein and thats a fucking anabolic diet...

i really laughed hard a couple of months ago when people were on someone's ass because his friend had some waffles and pizza in his offseason diet while getting in 500 grams of protein...

you wanna waste a couple of years following those measly 2-3 lbs of muscle per year while working really hard all year long like i did? go ahead... be my guest... you wanna live life and enjoy it for 6-8 months, and diet like you're about to die for 4-6 months of the year and put on 10-15 lbs in one year? don't do this "clean" crap...

it's up to you.

AMEN

 

[nsb1215]

this is an amazing thread.....wish there were more threads like this then" how much test"??? crap threads......mike 1107 i always enjoyed reading your posts here and at wes's board....can you chime in a little more about the topic......

 

[Lenny]

Ok, since i've seen many people i've talked to about this issue view this topic and not say a damn word... i'm gonna say it myself..
what i'm going to say here isn't "science" or any crap like that... it's just the results of a pissed off dude who wasted 3 years of his life trying to gain that "magical" lean muscle without the added fat everyone's talking about, but fail to show...

3 years... what do I have to show for it? 8 lbs... 8 lbs of muscle that i could've gained in 3 months instead of 3 years. keep in my mind, i was told to even double my doses i was taking (and did) because i've reached my "limit" on how much i can gain on that dose... bullshit...
Unless you are a genetic freak who can gain pure muscle by breathing... and hell, even most pros aren't like that... you will have to do it the old fashion way. calories! and lots of'em.
all of you... look at how you gained the majority of your muscle mass... really... if you're gonna say "I ate clean for 5 years and this is how i gained it"... i'm betting it's bullshit. cuz it never happens that way... you gained all that weight by eating like a fucking maniac (and the only thing you cooked up at home was probably a protein shake with peanut butter) and got in 1.5-2 grams of protein/lb per day and over 20 cals per lb. and then you spent 5 years eating clean and "refining" your body... whatever the fuck that means.

6 months as a natural, and i gained 14 lbs of muscle after my 3rd year of training... 3 years of being on retarded doses (to me, 1500 mg for my size is retarded) and i only gained 8 lbs... and i've worked harder than i ever have...
once i started with the junk crap last year... i put on 4 of those 8 lbs while prepping for a contest.

Really... look at all the people who "cleaned up their act" and went on a clean offseason... regardless of doses they used... i see most of them got smaller and look worse. I can give examples but i don't want to hurt anyone's feeling who actually think they are looking better.

believe what you want to believe... but this whole "overeating" crap... i would call eating a high fat/high carb/low protein diet crappy overeating that will contribute nothing to your gains (basically the ice cream and olive oil diet... LOL)... eating pizzas, candy, lots of carbs, try to minimize fats, make sure to get 2 grams/lb of protein and thats a fucking anabolic diet...

i really laughed hard a couple of months ago when people were on someone's ass because his friend had some waffles and pizza in his offseason diet while getting in 500 grams of protein...

you wanna waste a couple of years following those measly 2-3 lbs of muscle per year while working really hard all year long like i did? go ahead... be my guest... you wanna live life and enjoy it for 6-8 months, and diet like you're about to die for 4-6 months of the year and put on 10-15 lbs in one year? don't do this "clean" crap...

it's up to you.

I like protein shakes with peanut butter in there But love to top that off with pancakes from IHOP....but honestly I have kept all the yummy foods to the weekends!

Bottom line is get enough protein whether your eating high carbs or not! Dieting is the sacrifice part of it (strong mind, it has to happen), so make sure to feel those cravings in the offseason because come game time, well we all know the drill, buck up!

Always enjoy your posts, keepin it real Buselmo!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Many thoughts

Many thoughts on this. I will keep it real also.......who here has won a big show? Who here has been over 280 fairly lean? A lot of guys will keep it real and tell us how we got huge.........while they are still under 200...........fat. If you do not believe someone who has been there.........nothing more to talk about........dont let me stop you if thats your way of decoding the "size" puzzle.

 

[Lenny]

Many thoughts on this. I will keep it real also.......who here has won a big show? Who here has been over 280 fairly lean? A lot of guys will keep it real and tell us how we got huge.........while they are still under 200...........fat. If you do not believe someone who has been there.........nothing more to talk about........dont let me stop you if thats your way of decoding the "size" puzzle.

You have won a big show. You have been 280 and lean. I will never doubt that you knowledge or abilities and I learn a lot of valuable info from all your posts on many things. I respect your thoughts and know you keep it real...that is why I have never gotten fat in the offseason. I am always learning and just try to fit what works with my daily life...and realize that I will never be 280lbs and lean, just not in my cards, but I know I can improve from year to year if I give it a honest effort and enjoy it!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Maybe

You have won a big show. You have been 280 and lean. I will never doubt that you knowledge or abilities and I learn a lot of valuable info from all your posts on many things. I respect your thoughts and know you keep it real...that is why I have never gotten fat in the offseason. I am always learning and just try to fit what works with my daily life...and realize that I will never be 280lbs and lean, just not in my cards, but I know I can improve from year to year if I give it a honest effort and enjoy it!

Question. Do you have any regard for your health? You say as long as you get 500 grams protein then have pancakes and pizza? There is a whole thread on omega-3 importance for longevity.......just weekdays only will not cut it. I mean, it is your choice....but dont you want to be big AND healthy also? It is just not about getting fat..........it is about staying healthy. Some people on here, getting huge is all they live for..........all they care about....it is sad really.

 

[buselmo]

I like protein shakes with peanut butter in there But love to top that off with pancakes from IHOP....

THANK GOD WE DON'T HAVE IHOP DOWN HERE!!! LOL!!!... if we did, i'd be at 5'7, 350 lbs, 60% fat, can't do a single push up, and every time i see a bodybuilder i'd say "disgusting... why do these people do this to themselves... gross"

Many thoughts on this. I will keep it real also.......who here has won a big show? Who here has been over 280 fairly lean? A lot of guys will keep it real and tell us how we got huge.........while they are still under 200...........fat. If you do not believe someone who has been there.........nothing more to talk about........dont let me stop you if thats your way of decoding the "size" puzzle.

Phil, you have a lot of valid points and i always enjoy your posts. i've also had the pleasure to work with you and gain a shit ton of knowledge from you. but really, "decoding the size puzzle" isn't that difficult. what's difficult is accepting the fact that if you don't have genetics to gain lean mass, you're probably gonna look like total shit getting there. PLUS! you are going to have a hell of a hard time keeping that mass while spending months dieting it off.
I wasn't stating facts, as i rarely don't, but was voicing my opinion based on MY PERSONAL experience. I gained the majority of my mass naturally, and before i got... well... "too" educated about dieting and what not. my offseason diet "back in the day" would be considered stupid and awful in this board, but that's how i gained most of my mass when i was natural. the gains slowed down when i got too detailed about my diet instead of "breakfast... ummm... lots of eggs, lots of cereal, and a couple of scoops of whey... lunch, 3 double cheeseburgers from Mcd's... dinner, whatever my mom cooks with some whey... a couple of pbj sandwiches as a snack here and there... some whey and a liter of fruit juice after my workout".... went from 65 kg to 90 kg then dieted down to 75 kg and was much leaner than i was when i was 65 kg in less than a year. but at what cost? my waist hit 38.5 inches, and that's where i store the majority of my fat (lower back)... that's why i'm afraid to do it again... I looked like i was wearing a tire all the time.

This is (in my opinion) why we don't try this... what if i get fat and quit this shit like the rest of the "has been" bodybuilder from how bad i look?

doing it clean? yeah, it might work for some... but i've never seen it work for anyone around these parts... i was laughed at from all the champions in my gym because of the way i tried to add lean mass... they all "told me so".

my main point for everyone? don't get stuck up in one way of doing things... i haven't been doing this for a long time (started in 2002), but i always try different things EVEN IF WHAT I TRIED WORKED!... failing at one thing doesn't mean you didn't learn a thing... you learned that it's not how your body reacts, so you can stop wasting time doing that thing.

hell, if i told you the best diet that worked for me to get me in contest shape while gaining a few lbs, you'd laugh at it.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I understand

THANK GOD WE DON'T HAVE IHOP DOWN HERE!!! LOL!!!... if we did, i'd be at 5'7, 350 lbs, 60% fat, can't do a single push up, and every time i see a bodybuilder i'd say "disgusting... why do these people do this to themselves... gross"



Phil, you have a lot of valid points and i always enjoy your posts. i've also had the pleasure to work with you and gain a shit ton of knowledge from you. but really, "decoding the size puzzle" isn't that difficult. what's difficult is accepting the fact that if you don't have genetics to gain lean mass, you're probably gonna look like total shit getting there. PLUS! you are going to have a hell of a hard time keeping that mass while spending months dieting it off.
I wasn't stating facts, as i rarely don't, but was voicing my opinion based on MY PERSONAL experience. I gained the majority of my mass naturally, and before i got... well... "too" educated about dieting and what not. my offseason diet "back in the day" would be considered stupid and awful in this board, but that's how i gained most of my mass when i was natural. the gains slowed down when i got too detailed about my diet instead of "breakfast... ummm... lots of eggs, lots of cereal, and a couple of scoops of whey... lunch, 3 double cheeseburgers from Mcd's... dinner, whatever my mom cooks with some whey... a couple of pbj sandwiches as a snack here and there... some whey and a liter of fruit juice after my workout".... went from 65 kg to 90 kg then dieted down to 75 kg and was much leaner than i was when i was 65 kg in less than a year. but at what cost? my waist hit 38.5 inches, and that's where i store the majority of my fat (lower back)... that's why i'm afraid to do it again... I looked like i was wearing a tire all the time.

This is (in my opinion) why we don't try this... what if i get fat and quit this shit like the rest of the "has been" bodybuilder from how bad i look?

doing it clean? yeah, it might work for some... but i've never seen it work for anyone around these parts... i was laughed at from all the champions in my gym because of the way i tried to add lean mass... they all "told me so".

my main point for everyone? don't get stuck up in one way of doing things... i haven't been doing this for a long time (started in 2002), but i always try different things EVEN IF WHAT I TRIED WORKED!... failing at one thing doesn't mean you didn't learn a thing... you learned that it's not how your body reacts, so you can stop wasting time doing that thing.

hell, if i told you the best diet that worked for me to get me in contest shape while gaining a few lbs, you'd laugh at it.

But you must think about more then just the shell you present.....what about your "insides".....you want to be around a while I know this. Did you read the thread on omega-3?

 

[Lenny]

Question. Do you have any regard for your health? You say as long as you get 500 grams protein then have pancakes and pizza? There is a whole thread on omega-3 importance for longevity.......just weekdays only will not cut it. I mean, it is your choice....but dont you want to be big AND healthy also? It is just not about getting fat..........it is about staying healthy. Some people on here, getting huge is all they live for..........all they care about....it is sad really.

Phil I care about my health and would never promote that way of eating unless that is all they cared about - getting huge, prolly still avoid that way of doing things. I have never ate 500 grams of protein in a day, I am around 250 - 330 grams depending on hunger. Yes, I do indulge in some pancakes and some cravings food on the weekends, but it is not every meal on the weekends or an all out binge on the weekends... I know once I start prepping again, I will take those "metabolic refresh" meals out, okay cheat meals out of the plan. I have been reading the thread a on daily basis about omega-3 importance and it is great information...you all have a ton of great information. I just want to be me and healthy. And my health is doing fine, I keep tabs on that, trust me my wife is all over that as well because both are coming from health backgrounds.

I agree with you... people just care all about being huge, but if I did I would have pushed the limits already and choose not to go that route. And YES, I let my cravings get the best of me on the weekends in the offseason, but it is not as out of control as I made it sound in my previous post.

My choice is to get better, add quality muscle, be patient, compete because I enjoy it most of the time, and be healthy...it has always been that way. But, hey nobody is perfect and I will admit that in a heartbeat!