1.5g vs 2g protein per lbs bodyweight.

[bennym]

Sorry to bring up protein question, but has anyone noticed a difference in growth when using 2g of protein compared to 1.5g or is it just a waste of calories that could be allocated to carbs, worsening digestion etc.

thanks all.

 

[cordoba]

I don't know if it has ever made a difference in growth but I wouldn't call it a waste of calories. I've never noticed "worsening digestion" from protein, but I have noticed "worsening digestion" from fats. Also constantly elevated carbs, especially sugars can contribute towards diabetes. if I need high calories, say 7000kcal, I would rather go higher on the protein, it agrees with me better.

 

[Sectør]

1.5g/lb is more than sufficient. Imagine there’s a lot of diminishing returns or very little benefit going up to 2g/lb, and digestion would be much more a factor/issue.

In offseason I think the lower ratio would be even better, you’d get way more benefit from moving the other calories to carbs.

Deep into a cut when you’re hungry, the higher protein might not be the worst idea for satiety and muscle preservation and reducing protein breakdown.

2g/lb just seems like overkill though. A 200lb dude probably doesn’t need 400g protein, or a 300lb dude probably doesn’t need 600g. Most likely just becomes an expensive form of gluconeogeneis at that point. Again 1.5g/lb is more than sufficient

 

[bennym]

In offseason I think the lower ratio would be even better

Lower than 1.5g/lbs? or are you considering 1.5 to be the lower amount since I mentioned only 1.5 vs 2?

 

[Sectør]

Lower than 1.5g/lbs? or are you considering 1.5 to be the lower amount since I mentioned only 1.5 vs 2?

I mentioned the 1.5 because you listed 2 options.

1.5g/lb was the more reasonable of the two listed, and is generally what I try to aim for as well. I know there’s plenty here who prefer, advocate and have seen great results from a lower ratio than 1.5g/lb, where they just move the calories to carbs (as carbs are protein sparing).

 

[buck]

I grew OK on 1 gr. Then 1.25 grew better. Then 1.5 and grew better. 1.75gr/lb was about as high as i tended to go from quality protein. With probasbly another .25 gr from plant sources. 1.5+ a day for almost 30 years and don't regret it. Maybe even more would have worked better. I can't say as i never did it long term. I built some pretty good square jaw muscles in the process! I have seen countless pros talk about the 2 gr mark. Only one real way to know what works for you. Is to do it. Not like you are going to shrink a lot from it. I like how people talk about how everyone is different. Except when it comes to their own beliefs then they tell others what will work for the other person. Because that is what worked for them.

 

[luki7788]

This question is asked over and over again, to the point of boredom - that's why I recorded it so as not to repeat the same things 100 times that I have learned from years of experience

 

[d4ve]

I grew OK on 1 gr. Then 1.25 grew better. Then 1.5 and grew better. 1.75gr/lb was about as high as i tended to go from quality protein. With probasbly another .25 gr from plant sources. 1.5+ a day for almost 30 years and don't regret it. Maybe even more would have worked better. I can't say as i never did it long term. I built some pretty good square jaw muscles in the process! I have seen countless pros talk about the 2 gr mark. Only one real way to know what works for you. Is to do it. Not like you are going to shrink a lot from it. I like how people talk about how everyone is different. Except when it comes to their own beliefs then they tell others what will work for the other person. Because that is what worked for them.

Were you equating calories every time you upped protein (i.e. lowering carbs / fats)? Or were your calories just rising by however much you increased protein?

If it's the latter, would more carbs have done the trick?

I went way in the other direction - down to 300g total (counting all incidentals), weighing almost 300 lbs. in okay shape. That was coming from having been around 450 total / 360 from animal sources for a long time.

I've gone back up to more like 375-385 and think I'm probably at the sweet spot, so like 3g / kg or closer to 1.25-1.3 g / lb. I agree with @luki7788 and likewise found I'd been overdoing it.

But that's my experience, I know there are shittons of guys who swear by sky high protein.

I do think there's something to be said for the effect additional aminos vs. more carbs have on fullness and strength, but I don't know exactly what it is or what the upper limit for that effect really is.

 

[Cerberus777]

1.5 is plenty. If on a large cycle I noticed 2g to be better. When I was younger.

 

[buck]

Were you equating calories every time you upped protein (i.e. lowering carbs / fats)? Or were your calories just rising by however much you increased protein?

If it's the latter, would more carbs have done the trick?

I went way in the other direction - down to 300g total (counting all incidentals), weighing almost 300 lbs. in okay shape. That was coming from having been around 450 total / 360 from animal sources for a long time.

I've gone back up to more like 375-385 and think I'm probably at the sweet spot, so like 3g / kg or closer to 1.25-1.3 g / lb. I agree with @luki7788 and likewise found I'd been overdoing it.

But that's my experience, I know there are shittons of guys who swear by sky high protein.

I do think there's something to be said for the effect additional aminos vs. more carbs have on fullness and strength, but I don't know exactly what it is or what the upper limit for that effect really is.

I set my protein. Then adjusted my other macros as needed. For growth or dieting. Fats were about 20% of my calories for growth 15% or less for dieting with carbs making up the rest as needed.
I digested protein well and felt fine considering how much i was eating. Fats digested slower and kept me full longer. Carbs could bloat me in larger amounts.
If i was doing it over i would probably try a slightly lower fat intake which would cause more carbs during growth cycles to see how that worked, but that is not actually what i did.

 

[hawkmoon]

I eat 2+g per kg so well below 1.5g and have grown just fine. At 100kg I average about 225-250g.

 

[madg]

2g/kg for me

 

[Sully1234]

Personally I only went up to 2g per lb when I was natty but the recovery was great. Got stronger workout to workout.

I think it only would have been better on gear but havent gotten there yet.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Were you equating calories every time you upped protein (i.e. lowering carbs / fats)? Or were your calories just rising by however much you increased protein?

If it's the latter, would more carbs have done the trick?

I went way in the other direction - down to 300g total (counting all incidentals), weighing almost 300 lbs. in okay shape. That was coming from having been around 450 total / 360 from animal sources for a long time.

I've gone back up to more like 375-385 and think I'm probably at the sweet spot, so like 3g / kg or closer to 1.25-1.3 g / lb. I agree with @luki7788 and likewise found I'd been overdoing it.

But that's my experience, I know there are shittons of guys who swear by sky high protein.

I do think there's something to be said for the effect additional aminos vs. more carbs have on fullness and strength, but I don't know exactly what it is or what the upper limit for that effect really is.

Completely the same.

I’ve also noticed, and I’m not sure if this is correlation or causation, that the guys who seem to benefit the most from backing down their protein are already the biggest ones. I don’t reallly see many lighter or more average-sized guys having issues with higher protein intakes based on bodyweight formulas. But the guys with a lot of existing muscle mass often feel better and even perform better when they pull protein back a bit. That could just be because they’re more advanced and have spent years pushing extreme intake levels, so their systems respond differently at this point.

 

[MajinBoo]

Completely the same.

I’ve also noticed, and I’m not sure if this is correlation or causation, that the guys who seem to benefit the most from backing down their protein are already the biggest ones. I don’t reallly see many lighter or more average-sized guys having issues with higher protein intakes based on bodyweight formulas. But the guys with a lot of existing muscle mass often feel better and even perform better when they pull protein back a bit. That could just be because they’re more advanced and have spent years pushing extreme intake levels, so their systems respond differently at this point.

I agree with that but still think that nobody needs 2g/lb. Once I mentioned in other thread that I feel much better on 3g/kg than 2.2~2.5g/kg. I did the experiment to see how much it would change my midsection, digestion, etc.. the only thing I noticed was a worst look. Went back to ~3g/Kg and look harder and felt stronger. Placebo? Maybe. And I believe this is the sweet spot (at least for me).

 

[buck]

Completely the same.

I’ve also noticed, and I’m not sure if this is correlation or causation, that the guys who seem to benefit the most from backing down their protein are already the biggest ones. I don’t reallly see many lighter or more average-sized guys having issues with higher protein intakes based on bodyweight formulas. But the guys with a lot of existing muscle mass often feel better and even perform better when they pull protein back a bit. That could just be because they’re more advanced and have spent years pushing extreme intake levels, so their systems respond differently at this point.

Or could it be that they are not putting on as much new muscle every years as those that are earlier in their career so they can do well enough with less protein?

 

[d4ve]

Completely the same.

I’ve also noticed, and I’m not sure if this is correlation or causation, that the guys who seem to benefit the most from backing down their protein are already the biggest ones. I don’t reallly see many lighter or more average-sized guys having issues with higher protein intakes based on bodyweight formulas. But the guys with a lot of existing muscle mass often feel better and even perform better when they pull protein back a bit. That could just be because they’re more advanced and have spent years pushing extreme intake levels, so their systems respond differently at this point.

Yea, I agree. I wish we had more case studies on this...although we might have them now. It does seem like the "lower" or at least "not absurdly high" protein trend has been a thing for long enough that there are some very big guys who've built a lot of muscle closer to 1g / lb. Seems like a lot of the UK guys have been on this train for a while.

 

[retrofuturex]

honestly man i used to be the guy eating like 300g of protein a day and all i got was a bloated stomach and some nasty farts lol. once i dropped down to like 1.2 or 1.5g per pound and filled the rest with rice and oats my gym performance actually exploded. the carbs give u such a better pump and the energy to actually push heavy weight which is what builds the muscle anyway. unless ur on a crazy cutting cycle and starving to death i think 2g is a total waste of money and digestive enzymes. give those extra calories to the carbs and watch your strength go up!!

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Or could it be that they are not putting on as much new muscle every years as those that are earlier in their career so they can do well enough with less protein?

That’s a fair point. Advanced lifters usually aren’t adding muscle as fast, so their protein needs for growth might be lower. I’m more just commenting on how the biggest guys often feel better when they’re not pushing extreme intake anymore.

 

[Sectør]

That’s a fair point. Advanced lifters usually aren’t adding muscle as fast, so their protein needs for growth might be lower. I’m more just commenting on how the biggest guys often feel better when they’re not pushing extreme intake anymore.

It makes sense that they feel better when the ratio isn’t extremely high

Protein requires the most energy to digest of all the macros
20–30% of the calories from protein are used to digest it

Whereas carbs require 5-10% of calories to digest, and fats are 0-3% to digest

So when the protein ratio is excessively high, the body just has to work extremely hard to process it—it’s very taxing on the stomach, liver and even kidneys and can affect the stomach acid and digestive enzyme balance much more significantly than other macros

So not to surprising that pulling back the ratio a bit could make people feel better, if they’re experiencing issues