1 Year Heart Update

[DOGGCRAPP]

and taurine

Protective effects of taurine against oxidative stress in the heart of MsrA knockout mice. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of taurine supplementation on exercise capacity of patients with heart failure. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[emeric delczeg]

Thank you for this post and following up. I'll be following your thread. My father and uncle are diagnosed with cardiomyopathy and low EF from it. Needless to say it's probably in the genes and I'm playing with fire using AAS/gh/peps. Not diagnosed yet.

So do you have an enlarged heart or is it some other defect?

I know you one of those never used the Humanofort and you don`t think to much about, I would be glad to give your father free to try it out. Humanofort protects mitochondria from free radical damage.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Arjuna

Salutary effect of Terminalia Arjuna in patients with severe refractory heart failure. - PubMed - NCBI

and

Beneficial effects of Terminalia arjuna in coronary artery disease. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[pumpkinhead]

Honestly I would not worry to much about a 50% EF. Maybe just keep a eye on it and see if it gets worse year after year. If your super concerned have your doctor put you on Beta Blockers, but you most likely will not like the side effects.

For me, my ejection fraction is 24%. this causes my resting heart rate to stay in the 90bpm most of the time. I can't do much to fix this due to damage to my heart from a aortic dissection 2 years ago (genetic, nothing I did in my past). I have been to about 5 cardiologist , because 4 of them would not take me off the beta blockers because of was having severe side effects and ended up in the ER due to allergic reaction to one of them. What EVERY SINGLE cardiologist told me though was this.... "Their are a lot of people in the world with low EF, most don't even know they have it, and most live a perfectly normal lives" so I would not worry to much about 50%... just my two cents, I hope this helps comfort you some.

 

[someday]

B) pycogenol (ESPECIALLY PYCOGENOL!)

Is this something new you started recommending? Maybe I saw it before but just never processed it before. Came across this article about it over the LE site....sounds almost too good to be true!

Pycnogenol: Multi-Modal Defense Against Aging - Life Extension

(apologize for the mini hi-jack pumped, but I always a appreciate a good health thread, especially when it comes to anything that improves heart health and in my case, can help lower BP naturally).

 

[nothuman]

Wow at the pycnogenol links. Never heard of this until this thread.

Dante or anyone else: any idea if there is a significant difference in the brands? The link someday posted was from Life Extension but the Source Naturals brand is cheaper

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=life+extension+pycnogenol&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alife+extension+pycnogenol"]Amazon.com: life extension pycnogenol[/ame]

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I will read and respond to everything later today, I have patients all day and just stepped away to tell everyone the information I just found out. I feel terrible.

My cardiologist called and they said the new echo has my EF% at 40%


They want me to stop heavy lifting entirely. He is a fellow, so he's pretty young but he consulted with the head cardiologist there. They think the spikes in blood pressure from squats and deadlifts (and heavy lifting in general) may have something to do with it.

I don't know. But I can't believe this is happening. This is the worst I ever remember feeling. I'm 24 years old and he's talking about putting me on beta blockers and other heart medication. How the hell could this happen. I cycled for 2 years and want only on for maybe 1/2-2/3 of that. Never touched GH, peps, insulin, etc.

And how could it get worse?? It's lower and my dilation has gone from 60 to 63mm. I want to live to 90+, not 50.

I should have waited until tomorrow to talk to him. I can't even focus on my patients or anything else right now.

 

[nothuman]

I will read and respond to everything later today, I have patients all day and just stepped away to tell everyone the information I just found out. I feel terrible.

My cardiologist called and they said the new echo has my EF% at 40%


They want me to stop heavy lifting entirely. He is a fellow, so he's pretty young but he consulted with the head cardiologist there. They think the spikes in blood pressure from squats and deadlifts (and heavy lifting in general) may have something to do with it.

I don't know. But I can't believe this is happening. This is the worst I ever remember feeling. I'm 24 years old and he's talking about putting me on beta blockers and other heart medication. How the hell could this happen. I cycled for 2 years and want only on for maybe 1/2-2/3 of that. Never touched GH, peps, insulin, etc.

And how could it get worse?? It's lower and my dilation has gone from 60 to 63mm. I want to live to 90+, not 50.

I should have waited until tomorrow to talk to him. I can't even focus on my patients or anything else right now.

I'm really sorry to hear this unfortunate news. You should try the new supplements that Dante just recommended, especially the pycnogenol and use the highest doses necessary. You didn't mention your diet, but make sure you buy grass fed/free range meats and eats tons of veggies/fruits (if you don't have a good blender, buy one pronto and make shakes a few times a day). Also, you really can't slack with cardio anymore.

 

[warlock]

IM pretty shocked because the 2 supplements ive studied that have the greatest effects on increasing ejection fraction....you are not using.

A) high dose ubiquinol
B) pycogenol (ESPECIALLY PYCOGENOL!)
c) also citrulline
d) arjuna
e) taurine

You can do the research yourself but 22% increases?!?! You better get on it

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=pycogenol+ejection+fraction

Dante,

If money is not an issue, what dose of ubiquinol would you recommend for anyone that wants to keep the heart as healthy as possible?

Regarding pycogenol, would you recommend this to anyone wanting to keep heart healthy or only to those who are looking to increase ejection fraction?

Thank you

 

[warlock]

Try to add Humanofort, Meldorf is on for almost 6 years or more.

The Humanofort contains all the natural catalog stem cell biosimilar microRNAs, growth factors and pluripotent Yamanaka factors. This catalog includes; IGF-1, IGF-2, FGF (fibroblast growth factors), NGF (nerve growth factors), EGF (epidermal growth factors), CTGF (connective tissue growth factors), Immunoglobulins, Immune-Regulating Anti-Inflammatory Cytokines, and TGF-§ (Transforming Growth Factor Beta) Follistatin, Thymosin beta4.

Abstract
Hypoxic heart disease is a predominant cause of disability and death worldwide. As adult mammals are incapable of cardiac repair after infarction, the discovery of effective methods to achieve myocardial and vascular regeneration is crucial. Efforts to use stem cells to repopulate damaged tissue are currently limited by technical considerations and restricted cell potential. We discovered that the small, secreted peptide thymosin beta4 (Tbeta4) could be sufficiently used to inhibit myocardial cell death, stimulate vessel growth, and activate endogenous cardiac progenitors by reminding the adult heart on its embryonic program in vivo. The initiation of epicardial thickening accompanied by increase of myocardial and epicardial progenitors with or without infarction indicate that the reactivation process is independent of injury. Our results demonstrate Tbeta4 to be the first known molecule able to initiate simultaneous myocardial and vascular regeneration after systemic administration in vivo. Given our findings, the utility of Tbeta4 to heal cardiac injury may hold promise and warrant further investigation.

Emeric,

Even if your heart is healthy, would you recommend humanafort for those that take gear or simply want to keep the heart strong?

Thank you

 

[nothuman]

Dante,

If money is not an issue, what dose of ubiquinol would you recommend for anyone that wants to keep the heart as healthy as possible?

Regarding pycogenol, would you recommend this to anyone wanting to keep heart healthy or only to those who are looking to increase ejection fraction?

Thank you

I'm no Dante but 400mg Ubiquinol seems to be the proper amount for bodybuilders from reading a ton.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Is this something new you started recommending? Maybe I saw it before but just never processed it before. Came across this article about it over the LE site....sounds almost too good to be true!

Pycnogenol: Multi-Modal Defense Against Aging - Life Extension

(apologize for the mini hi-jack pumped, but I always a appreciate a good health thread, especially when it comes to anything that improves heart health and in my case, can help lower BP naturally).

I have stuff ive studied I can recommend all the time....I just pick my spots to where I have the time and it pertains to what the thread is about. Show me the bloodwork or the problem and I usually have a fix. Ive been doing this "problem fixing" thing for a long time. Ive probably have looked at 35 pro bodybuilders bloodwork over the years...too many amateurs to count...I have fixed this stuff time and time again with supplements and tweaks....its what I like to do now.

 

[nothuman]

I have stuff ive studied I can recommend all the time....I just pick my spots to where I have the time and it pertains to what the thread is about. Show me the bloodwork or the problem and I usually have a fix. Ive been doing this "problem fixing" thing for a long time. Ive probably have looked at 35 pro bodybuilders bloodwork over the years...too many amateurs to count...I have fixed this stuff time and time again with supplements and tweaks....its what I like to do now.

I've fixed my own bloodwork almost entirely just with your links and recommendations on this board or Facebook (also mountain dog diet). For example, my HDL is the highest I've ever seen it since I was natural

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante,

If money is not an issue, what dose of ubiquinol would you recommend for anyone that wants to keep the heart as healthy as possible?

Regarding pycogenol, would you recommend this to anyone wanting to keep heart healthy or only to those who are looking to increase ejection fraction?

Thank you

On ubiquinol...your heart can race if you get on too high of a dose....I think the upper doses should only be used with people who have heart problems or need a remodeling over time.

I struggle with the second question...I honestly could recommend to you guys about 40 things that i deem neccesary...but who the hell wants to take that many compounds......so i try to pick my spots and fix problems....I chuckle when i see people think that taking supplements doesnt do anything...LOL do you know how many peoples bloodwork ive changed by adding supplements in which they didnt deviate from what they were previously doing....Hell look at citrus bergamot....you virtually can take statins and throw them in the trash with that supplement...it raises hdl, lowers ldl dramatically and lowers cholesterol and stabilizes blood sugar. As we go along here in society people will slowly learn that what is organic, natural and comes from the earth is much better than man made drugs that both fix a problem and cause another problem. I digress....add pycnogenol if you feel its worthy but I honestly think people should get base bloodwork, and follow up bloodwork and shuffle supplements to fix problems that are off according to their bloodwork. Thats how i feel it should be done. And then add in a couple things that you think are incredibly important for preventive measures. for example: Everyone in my family has glasses now even younger siblings.....guess who doesnt have glasses? Me. And i chalk that down to the studying and taking of supplements that prevent macular degneration many many years ago and i take religiously today...I have 20/10 eyesight. Cancer: my dad died of cancer even though he was a smoker. My dads brother also died of cancer (smoker), my moms sister had breast cancer twice.....so i take pertinent anti cancer supplements. Thirty seven known pro bodybuilders and amateurs have died in the last few years most from heart problems...(thats KNOWN, nevermind the bodybuilders we dont know of like the 3 in my gym in their 40's in the last year who had heart attacks (2 survived, one dead)....I take key pertinent heart supplements for myself because of the heart effects these drugs seem to have that werent previously pinpointed. Thats how i do things...I fix my bloodwork to where its stellar...and i do key preventative supplements that i feel are imperiative. Otherwise you can turn into an overanalytical health phobia mess (and I myself have gotten close to that especially with each new guy that dies....I get anxiety)..... and Im not doing an iota of what guys on this board are doing...IM on TRT since 2008....bloodwork will tell you alot (not everything but alot)

 

[Stewie]

Wasn't you at one point a few years ago iron deficient, if I recall? Has this been resolved?

Have you ruled out the possibility of undiagnosed sleep apnea?

Both are related to low E.F℅

I have read several different literatures, there's an association of Crohn's Disease with subclinical cardiac dysfunction.

Hopefully you can narrow it down to the cause, instead of blindly throwing supplements down your throat.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Someday: probably a better read for you heart related wise..I know my pubmed links are like watching paint dry for some people.

Wide-Ranging Longevity Benefits Of Pycnogenol - Life Extension

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

And to be honest....Stewie could be 100% correct and you have seen me say it previously on this board too

All these guys who are dying in bodybuilding (outside of the high blood pressure kidney failure ones)....it very well could be they all had sleep apnea and every single one of them died from undiagnosed sleep apnea. It really could be that true and that simple. One out of every 10 adults in the USA now has sleep apnea of some kind....thats ALOT. You combine that ratio with football players (rampant) and bodybuilders with their large neck circumfrence and musculature....that very well might be the cause of all these guys dying of heart problems. I dont know for sure,,,but i do know this. If you do have OSA and you dont do anything about it....you are going to die....much much (decades) earlier than you normally would die. It will damage your heart beyond repair, diabetes, brain disease, strokes etc etc etc...but especially the heart....think about almost drowning 4 times a minute for 8 hours a night for years and years....thats basically the scenario. And if you dont do something about it (i cant stand the mask, i hate it..it has aged me greatly facially and carved lines in my face---I used to be accused of being 8-10 years younger than i was...that mask has taken that away from me) but the alternative is dying. So you pick your poison there...and I chose the mask and have worn it for 10 years now. Im not going to get surgery until i see something better than a 40% success rate and even when i was at my lowest bodyweight in 20 years I still had it....it is what it is. But if 1 out of 10 regular people have sleep apnea im speculating that the ratio for bodybuilders with any kind of enhanced muscle mass might be 1 out of 2

 

[someday]

And to be honest....Stewie could be 100% correct and you have seen me say it previously on this board too

All these guys who are dying in bodybuilding (outside of the high blood pressure kidney failure ones)....it very well could be they all had sleep apnea and every single one of them died from undiagnosed sleep apnea. It really could be that true and that simple. One out of every 10 adults in the USA now has sleep apnea of some kind....thats ALOT. You combine that ratio with football players (rampant) and bodybuilders with their large neck circumfrence and musculature....that very well might be the cause of all these guys dying of heart problems. I dont know for sure,,,but i do know this. If you do have OSA and you dont do anything about it....you are going to die....much much (decades) earlier than you normally would die. It will damage your heart beyond repair, diabetes, brain disease, strokes etc etc etc...but especially the heart....think about almost drowning 4 times a minute for 8 hours a night for years and years....thats basically the scenario. And if you dont do something about it (i cant stand the mask, i hate it..it has aged me greatly facially and carved lines in my face---I used to be accused of being 8-10 years younger than i was...that mask has taken that away from me) but the alternative is dying. So you pick your poison there...and I chose the mask and have worn it for 10 years now. Im not going to get surgery until i see something better than a 40% success rate and even when i was at my lowest bodyweight in 20 years I still had it....it is what it is. But if 1 out of 10 regular people have sleep apnea im speculating that the ratio for bodybuilders with any kind of enhanced muscle mass might be 1 out of 2

Having spent 8 years managing one of the larger providers of sleep medicine in the country, I can tell you the reason why there are still so many undiagnosed cases or those that know but don't do anything about it is because no one dies directly from OSA, OSA simply exacerbates or leads to those other conditions you listed and those get listed on the death certificate. Almost sounds like long term steroid abuse, doesn't it?

 

[gotgame]

I will read and respond to everything later today, I have patients all day and just stepped away to tell everyone the information I just found out. I feel terrible.

My cardiologist called and they said the new echo has my EF% at 40%


They want me to stop heavy lifting entirely. He is a fellow, so he's pretty young but he consulted with the head cardiologist there. They think the spikes in blood pressure from squats and deadlifts (and heavy lifting in general) may have something to do with it.

I don't know. But I can't believe this is happening. This is the worst I ever remember feeling. I'm 24 years old and he's talking about putting me on beta blockers and other heart medication. How the hell could this happen. I cycled for 2 years and want only on for maybe 1/2-2/3 of that. Never touched GH, peps, insulin, etc.

And how could it get worse?? It's lower and my dilation has gone from 60 to 63mm. I want to live to 90+, not 50.

I should have waited until tomorrow to talk to him. I can't even focus on my patients or anything else right now.

Cant post much now but just wanted to make some real quick points.

1. Ive seen echoes called 35-40 with MUGAs of mid 50's. Echoes can be decent estimations however there can still be some significant variability.

2. Your EDV LV measurement again can be subjective. Its difficult sometimes to pick the correct frame. I hope he is remeasuring it himself. If it is a 3mm increase then while not big its not going in the direction you would want.

3. Im not going to blame the juice as many things can cause a reduced EF in younger patients BUT i have been posting for years about cardiac remodeling directly related to AAS and how to "potentially" prevent/reduce that. Its a serious issue with others on the boards ive talked to as they thought it was only about HTN not realizing the direct effects it can have.

4. If your EF really is 40% id stop lifting heavy weights and get this under control. Id imagine before it really was 50% as both the echo and MRI showed that but if the echo was done first and if the person reading the MRI had access to the echo the numbers can EASILY be fudged a bit. When drawing the contours for the epi and endo surfaces it can be very subjective about what to include, i ball park it all the time.

 

[warlock]

On ubiquinol...your heart can race if you get on too high of a dose....I think the upper doses should only be used with people who have heart problems or need a remodeling over time.

I struggle with the second question...I honestly could recommend to you guys about 40 things that i deem neccesary...but who the hell wants to take that many compounds......so i try to pick my spots and fix problems....I chuckle when i see people think that taking supplements doesnt do anything...LOL do you know how many peoples bloodwork ive changed by adding supplements in which they didnt deviate from what they were previously doing....Hell look at citrus bergamot....you virtually can take statins and throw them in the trash with that supplement...it raises hdl, lowers ldl dramatically and lowers cholesterol and stabilizes blood sugar. As we go along here in society people will slowly learn that what is organic, natural and comes from the earth is much better than man made drugs that both fix a problem and cause another problem. I digress....add pycnogenol if you feel its worthy but I honestly think people should get base bloodwork, and follow up bloodwork and shuffle supplements to fix problems that are off according to their bloodwork. Thats how i feel it should be done. And then add in a couple things that you think are incredibly important for preventive measures. for example: Everyone in my family has glasses now even younger siblings.....guess who doesnt have glasses? Me. And i chalk that down to the studying and taking of supplements that prevent macular degneration many many years ago and i take religiously today...I have 20/10 eyesight. Cancer: my dad died of cancer even though he was a smoker. My dads brother also died of cancer (smoker), my moms sister had breast cancer twice.....so i take pertinent anti cancer supplements. Thirty seven known pro bodybuilders and amateurs have died in the last few years most from heart problems...(thats KNOWN, nevermind the bodybuilders we dont know of like the 3 in my gym in their 40's in the last year who had heart attacks (2 survived, one dead)....I take key pertinent heart supplements for myself because of the heart effects these drugs seem to have that werent previously pinpointed. Thats how i do things...I fix my bloodwork to where its stellar...and i do key preventative supplements that i feel are imperiative. Otherwise you can turn into an overanalytical health phobia mess (and I myself have gotten close to that especially with each new guy that dies....I get anxiety)..... and Im not doing an iota of what guys on this board are doing...IM on TRT since 2008....bloodwork will tell you alot (not everything but alot)

Great post. It makes a lot of sense

As to the ubiquinol, would you say 400mg is a good dose for bodybuilders?