1 Year Heart Update

[Deleted member 106824]

To answer your question directly....no i do not think you are at an increased risk when compared to the general population.

Not that you asked but ill chime in anyway...i do NOT like synthol. I wonder who that was... Long Term SYNTHOL Aftermath! - YouTube

Oh wow...I remember this video...who knew. I think my biggest shock out of all of this is that that doctor, whoever he may be..., watches Jerry Ward videos

It was so tempting as I tried it once in my left forearm (risky business) and now it looks much meatier and bigger than my right. Looks 100% like muscle tissue when I flex it and it's lasted all this time (over a year now). So it's hard to see that and not want to continue with it. But alas I'm sure it can lead to the issues mentioned in the video. Admittedly I was much more concerned with something like a embolism from it, which it sounds like you don't think is a significant risk, but of course those fibrotic issues are no joke. Maybe I'll just have to accept what I have afterall.....all 190lb of it

 

[MKSuccess500]

We all have clots being broken down on a daily basis. In fact im convinced that having PE's are "normal" and part of the function of our lungs is to filter and break those down.

So when does it become an issue? How do we know if we're just getting normal clots vs something that could potentially kill us?

 

[gotgame]

So when does it become an issue? How do we know if we're just getting normal clots vs something that could potentially kill us?

Tachycardic, short of breathe, chest pain... Those would give me pause. I personally feel we over images people therefore for the last 20 years or so we are catching "normal findings" in patient which are asymptomatic and calling them abnormal and treating. I understand why its just unfortunate. I mean as much shit as i give ER docs ( a lot lol) you can't not act on certain findings even if they thought they were bullshit because of patient legal reasons.

 

[gotgame]

Oh wow...I remember this video...who knew. I think my biggest shock out of all of this is that that doctor, whoever he may be..., watches Jerry Ward videos

It was so tempting as I tried it once in my left forearm (risky business) and now it looks much meatier and bigger than my right. Looks 100% like muscle tissue when I flex it and it's lasted all this time (over a year now). So it's hard to see that and not want to continue with it. But alas I'm sure it can lead to the issues mentioned in the video. Admittedly I was much more concerned with something like a embolism from it, which it sounds like you don't think is a significant risk, but of course those fibrotic issues are no joke. Maybe I'll just have to accept what I have afterall.....all 190lb of it

lol oh cmon.. how many radiologists also know AAS... cant be more then a handful.

I think a PE is always a risk i just dont think you are at an increased risk compared to everyone else.

 

[M@NU]

Lmao I was curious/unsure about that estrogen / water retention thing but yes I agree, I think I can finally relax a bit now. Still going to follow the precautions we talked about but this eases my mind. Thank you again man, you've helped me so much

I'll post a quick update when the doctor reviews my heart monitor and if/when he gets a chance to compare the old echos to this new one.

I have the same feelings on McClain. He seems like a great guy and he's passionate about bodybuilding which I of course like. I think he's a bit too quick to disregard some of the changes seen in AAS using lifters as normal. E.g. Your liver enzymes are twice normal? Probably because you workout. Your heart is enlarged? Probably just because you exercise. Your cholesterol is bad? It's not that important, etc. A little over confident in supplements (was sure glutamine would help my Crohn's, which it doesn't). But again overall good guy and physician and I'm mainly looking for his help in hormone regulation and eventually coming off which he seems good at helping people do.

Hey pumped,
first of all, good job on every improvement you have accomplished. Congratz.
Just wanne say something to your general behavior:
I am/was like you. Lower EF, LVH, and so on. I think my problem were huge amounts of stimulants over months/years (including clen, ephedrin, DMAA, DMHA, DMBA....)
In your case, it was probably AAS related.
What i would advice you:
Stop worrying. You have probably stopped what made your heart condition worse and its getting better. Constant worrying makes you suck, i can assure you that. Please stop worry.
About your comment about "lousy docs".
In most cases, it is because you are an athlete that certain parameters are off.
I get bloodwork done twice a year usually.
If i train the days before bloodwork (lets say 2 times in a row) my liver enzymes arent just double what they should.. they are 6-7 times higher (ALT/AST; not GGT because this is the one more specific to liver)
my highest CK recored was 6600, range should be <200
(now you might say im ill, but i also get abdomen screenings and echo 1-2 per year and im fine besides my lower EF and LVH)
Athletes are different to the usual population.

 

[Kr0m]

Hasn't every doctor you've seen told you that your heart seems to be perfectly fine

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 106824]

lol oh cmon.. how many radiologists also know AAS... cant be more then a handful.

I think a PE is always a risk i just dont think you are at an increased risk compared to everyone else.

lol probably true, I didn't think too much into it when I first saw the video and I just wouldn't have pegged you as a fan of Jerry Ward. He used to live about 20min from me actually.

Hey pumped,
first of all, good job on every improvement you have accomplished. Congratz.
Just wanne say something to your general behavior:
I am/was like you. Lower EF, LVH, and so on. I think my problem were huge amounts of stimulants over months/years (including clen, ephedrin, DMAA, DMHA, DMBA....)
In your case, it was probably AAS related.
What i would advice you:
Stop worrying. You have probably stopped what made your heart condition worse and its getting better. Constant worrying makes you suck, i can assure you that. Please stop worry.
About your comment about "lousy docs".
In most cases, it is because you are an athlete that certain parameters are off.
I get bloodwork done twice a year usually.
If i train the days before bloodwork (lets say 2 times in a row) my liver enzymes arent just double what they should.. they are 6-7 times higher (ALT/AST; not GGT because this is the one more specific to liver)
my highest CK recored was 6600, range should be <200
(now you might say im ill, but i also get abdomen screenings and echo 1-2 per year and im fine besides my lower EF and LVH)
Athletes are different to the usual population.

Hey man, I agree things seem to be significantly better now and I'm less worried. My nature is to be pretty OCD about health, and therefore I will always be cautious about my heart in the future, but I am in a much better position mentally than I was a year ago. At this point I'm mostly updating this thread for the sake of completion and allowing everyone who has followed the thread to see what the doctor's are telling me at this point.

Hasn't every doctor you've seen told you that your heart seems to be perfectly fine

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Not remotely true, I had one cardiologist two years ago tell me to stop lifting because they interpreted the echo to show my EF at 40%. Thankfully that no longer seems to be the case, so now yes most doctors are telling me I should be ok but to keep an eye on things due to the dilation

 

[gotgame]

lol probably true, I didn't think too much into it when I first saw the video and I just wouldn't have pegged you as a fan of Jerry Ward. He used to live about 20min from me actually.



Hey man, I agree things seem to be significantly better now and I'm less worried. My nature is to be pretty OCD about health, and therefore I will always be cautious about my heart in the future, but I am in a much better position mentally than I was a year ago. At this point I'm mostly updating this thread for the sake of completion and allowing everyone who has followed the thread to see what the doctor's are telling me at this point.



Not remotely true, I had one cardiologist two years ago tell me to stop lifting because they interpreted the echo to show my EF at 40%. Thankfully that no longer seems to be the case, so now yes most doctors are telling me I should be ok but to keep an eye on things due to the dilation

I dont know much about jerry ward other then he seems to be a straight shooter in his videos. Haven't watched one in a few months but thats just because ive been ridiculously busy. I happened to like Rich Piana too, i just wish he would have responded to an email I sent him about a year ago regarding his health.

Oh note, i also send Kevin Levrone a message after he had some VERY bad advice and had PRP therapy leading up to olympia last year. That was one of the worst things he could have done but his doctor just didnt understand how to manage an athlete. I didnt hear back from him either lol

 

[MKSuccess500]

Tachycardic, short of breathe, chest pain... Those would give me pause. I personally feel we over images people therefore for the last 20 years or so we are catching "normal findings" in patient which are asymptomatic and calling them abnormal and treating. I understand why its just unfortunate. I mean as much shit as i give ER docs ( a lot lol) you can't not act on certain findings even if they thought they were bullshit because of patient legal reasons.

I gotcha. That synthol video scares me. I didn't think problems with it were so common. So are those guys you see in south america doing crazy buttloads of the stuff all going to end up with tons of scar tissue? Why don't we hear about this issue online at all?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I dont know much about jerry ward other then he seems to be a straight shooter in his videos. Haven't watched one in a few months but thats just because ive been ridiculously busy. I happened to like Rich Piana too, i just wish he would have responded to an email I sent him about a year ago regarding his health.

Oh note, i also send Kevin Levrone a message after he had some VERY bad advice and had PRP therapy leading up to olympia last year. That was one of the worst things he could have done but his doctor just didnt understand how to manage an athlete. I didnt hear back from him either lol

He is a straight shooter, as was Rich in my opinion. He just says a lot of stuff I'm sure you (or anyone with a moderate level of knowledge of training and nutrition) would cringe at. I remember he had an entire video on HIT vs progressive overload as if they were mutually exclusive terms. He's recently getting flamed by everyone for saying playing a basketball game isn't cardio but incline walking is. Not that any of this matters here lol.

I recall someone else say that about Kevin too. He also lived close to me and trained about 15min from my apartment. My understanding was he was in his own world a lot of the time.

 

[gotgame]

He is a straight shooter, as was Rich in my opinion. He just says a lot of stuff I'm sure you (or anyone with a moderate level of knowledge of training and nutrition) would cringe at. I remember he had an entire video on HIT vs progressive overload as if they were mutually exclusive terms. He's recently getting flamed by everyone for saying playing a basketball game isn't cardio but incline walking is. Not that any of this matters here lol.

I recall someone else say that about Kevin too. He also lived close to me and trained about 15min from my apartment. My understanding was he was in his own world a lot of the time.

I dont view any of these guys as experts on higher level training and AAS use. I view them as guys who mean well and whose advice would probably benefit most average guys. That being said I dont know or ever spoke directly with Jerry, i just sent him an email that he read during that video.

I view basketball as cardio, but terrible on the knees.

 

[Reno911]

Oh note, i also send Kevin Levrone a message after he had some VERY bad advice and had PRP therapy leading up to olympia last year. That was one of the worst things he could have done but his doctor just didnt understand how to manage an athlete. I didnt hear back from him either lol[/QUOTE]

Just curious- why was the PRP bad advice? You feel that it would produce too much inflammation for the healing process which would be bad too close to the show?

 

[gotgame]

Oh note, i also send Kevin Levrone a message after he had some VERY bad advice and had PRP therapy leading up to olympia last year. That was one of the worst things he could have done but his doctor just didnt understand how to manage an athlete. I didnt hear back from him either lol

Just curious- why was the PRP bad advice? You feel that it would produce too much inflammation for the healing process which would be bad too close to the show?[/QUOTE]

exactly. he probably had bad tendinosis/partial tear and adjacent reaction changes creating pain. tendinosis long term doesnt tend to heal all that well so PRP is good in the sense that the needle itself can induce a local inflammatory response and bleeding and the PRP can produce a scaffolding for healing along with local growth factors. I do PRP all the time in the patella but I would never do it for someone a few weeks out from the olympia. I would have done and ultrasound guided depo medrol ( not a fluorinated one) injection right on top/next to his tendon to reduce local inflammation and not cause any sort of tendon weakening which would have allowed him to train legs better and then used PRP after the olympia if it still needs it. PRP therapy can also cause tendon weakening from the local mechanical effects/inflammation so it was a bad idea. ---but no one asked me lol

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I dont view any of these guys as experts on higher level training and AAS use. I view them as guys who mean well and whose advice would probably benefit most average guys. That being said I dont know or ever spoke directly with Jerry, i just sent him an email that he read during that video.

I view basketball as cardio, but terrible on the knees.

Yup, and they have a good outreach so it's good you're emailing them and getting the info out there. I actually did an interview/chat with Marc Lobliner on his channel for the same reason....he has several hundred thousand subscribers so it was a good way to get the message out.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Update for those following along. I've dropped about 40lb from my heaviest, picture attached. Still doing my cardio 2hr per week, 3 weight lifting sessions per week. I have been feeling pressure in my left chest area more the last week or so, I assumed it was mental so I've done my best to ignore it.

Today I got my most recent bloodwork. Dr. McClain originally had me on 2mg adex per week. It brought my HDL from 77 to 54 so I went off it for 4 weeks and then tried just 1mg for about 8 weeks then retested. On the plus side, my HDL is back up to 70+. On the down side, my LDL is literally the highest it's ever been in my life. Higher than when I was on superdrol. It's a shame because all of my hormone levels are exactly where I want them now but I can't stay on the adex if it's doing that to my LDL. (Also lol @ guys saying their 250mg of test is a "testosterone *replacement* dose" when 80mg has me high normal).

Potentially more concerning, D-dimer is measuring high pretty much every time now and this time it's twice the upper normal limit I have no idea why. Crohn's has been in a 3-month remission. CRP and ESR are good. I've read D-dimer being a little elevated isn't an issue but to this extent I've heard it can be problematic and indicate cardiac trouble.

12/6/17 (8:30am):
4x20mg Test C (shallow IM)(Last dose 12/5 8am)
2x0.5mg Anastrazole (Last dose 12/4 8am)
2-3g Fish Oil ED
800mg Curcumin BCM-95 ED
120min cardio / week
5000mg Pentasa

Magnesium: 1.9 (1.5-2.5mg/dL)
D Dimer: 1.10 (<0.50 mcg/mL)
BNP: 25 (<100 pg/ml)
Testosterone, Total: 864 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 193.5 (35-155 pg/mL)
DHT: 60 (16-79 ng/dL)
Estradiol: 13 (< 39 pg/mL)
SHBG: 28 (10-50 nmol/L)
IGF-1, LC/MS: 228 (63-373 ng/mL)
DHEA Sulfate: 191 (85-690 mcg/dL)
DHEA, LC/MS/MS: 130 (61-1636 ng/dL)
Insulin: 2.4 (2-19.6 uIU/mL)
Prolactin: 7.5 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
Cortisol, A.M.: 18.0 (4.0-22.0 mcg/dL)
Glucose: 81 (65-99 mg/dL)
Urea Nitrogen (BUN): 25 (7-25 mg/dL)
Creatinine: 1.34 (0.6-1.35 mg/dL)
eGFR Non-Afr Am.: 73 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
eGFR Afr Am.: 84 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
Sodium: 137 (135-146 mmol/L)
Potassium: 4.3 (3.5-5.3 mmol/L)
Chloride: 105 (98-110 mmol/L)
Carbon Dioxide: 28 (20-31 mmol/L)
Calcium: 9.5 (8.9-10.4 mg/dL)
Protein, Total: 6.8 (6.1-8.1 g/dL)
Albumin: 4.2 (3.6-5.1 g/dL)
Globulin: 2.6 (1.9-3.7 g/dL)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio: 1.6 (1.0-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total: 0.7 (0.2-1.2 mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase: 87 (40-115 U/L)
AST: 20 (10-40 U/L)
ALT: 39 (9-46 U/L)
GGT: 9 (3-7 U/L)
TSH: 2.32 (0.4-4.5 mIU/L)
T4, Free: 0.8 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
PSA, Total: 0.4 (< 4.0 ng/mL)
Cholesterol, Total: 225 (125-200 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol: 71 (> 40 mg/dL)
Cholesterol/HDL: 3.2 (< 5.0)
LDL Cholesterol: 139 (<130 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 59 (<150 mg/dL)
Non-HDL Cholesterol: 154 (30 mg/dL more than LDL)
hs-CRP: 0.4 (<1 mg/L = low risk. 1-3 = avg risk. 3-10 = high risk)
ESR, Westergren: 9 (0-15 MM/HR)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total: 54 (30-100ng/mL)
WBC Count: 4.9 (3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL)
RBC Count: 4.58 (4.2-5.8 Million/uL)
Hemoglobin: 14.8 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 43.5 (38.5-50.0%)
Platelet Count: 167 (140-400 Thousand/uL)

 

[MKSuccess500]

Sorry to hear that brother. Looking lean though! What does your doctor think about the elevated tests?

 

[emeric delczeg]

Update for those following along. I've dropped about 40lb from my heaviest, picture attached. Still doing my cardio 2hr per week, 3 weight lifting sessions per week. I have been feeling pressure in my left chest area more the last week or so, I assumed it was mental so I've done my best to ignore it.

Today I got my most recent bloodwork. Dr. McClain originally had me on 2mg adex per week. It brought my HDL from 77 to 54 so I went off it for 4 weeks and then tried just 1mg for about 8 weeks then retested. On the plus side, my HDL is back up to 70+. On the down side, my LDL is literally the highest it's ever been in my life. Higher than when I was on superdrol. It's a shame because all of my hormone levels are exactly where I want them now but I can't stay on the adex if it's doing that to my LDL. (Also lol @ guys saying their 250mg of test is a "testosterone *replacement* dose" when 80mg has me high normal).

Potentially more concerning, D-dimer is measuring high pretty much every time now and this time it's twice the upper normal limit I have no idea why. Crohn's has been in a 3-month remission. CRP and ESR are good. I've read D-dimer being a little elevated isn't an issue but to this extent I've heard it can be problematic and indicate cardiac trouble.

12/6/17 (8:30am):
4x20mg Test C (shallow IM)(Last dose 12/5 8am)
2x0.5mg Anastrazole (Last dose 12/4 8am)
2-3g Fish Oil ED
800mg Curcumin BCM-95 ED
120min cardio / week
5000mg Pentasa

Magnesium: 1.9 (1.5-2.5mg/dL)
D Dimer: 1.10 (<0.50 mcg/mL)
BNP: 25 (<100 pg/ml)
Testosterone, Total: 864 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 193.5 (35-155 pg/mL)
DHT: 60 (16-79 ng/dL)
Estradiol: 13 (< 39 pg/mL)
SHBG: 28 (10-50 nmol/L)
IGF-1, LC/MS: 228 (63-373 ng/mL)
DHEA Sulfate: 191 (85-690 mcg/dL)
DHEA, LC/MS/MS: 130 (61-1636 ng/dL)
Insulin: 2.4 (2-19.6 uIU/mL)
Prolactin: 7.5 (2.0-18.0 ng/mL)
Cortisol, A.M.: 18.0 (4.0-22.0 mcg/dL)
Glucose: 81 (65-99 mg/dL)
Urea Nitrogen (BUN): 25 (7-25 mg/dL)
Creatinine: 1.34 (0.6-1.35 mg/dL)
eGFR Non-Afr Am.: 73 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
eGFR Afr Am.: 84 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
Sodium: 137 (135-146 mmol/L)
Potassium: 4.3 (3.5-5.3 mmol/L)
Chloride: 105 (98-110 mmol/L)
Carbon Dioxide: 28 (20-31 mmol/L)
Calcium: 9.5 (8.9-10.4 mg/dL)
Protein, Total: 6.8 (6.1-8.1 g/dL)
Albumin: 4.2 (3.6-5.1 g/dL)
Globulin: 2.6 (1.9-3.7 g/dL)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio: 1.6 (1.0-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total: 0.7 (0.2-1.2 mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase: 87 (40-115 U/L)
AST: 20 (10-40 U/L)
ALT: 39 (9-46 U/L)
GGT: 9 (3-7 U/L)
TSH: 2.32 (0.4-4.5 mIU/L)
T4, Free: 0.8 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
PSA, Total: 0.4 (< 4.0 ng/mL)
Cholesterol, Total: 225 (125-200 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol: 71 (> 40 mg/dL)
Cholesterol/HDL: 3.2 (< 5.0)
LDL Cholesterol: 139 (<130 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 59 (<150 mg/dL)
Non-HDL Cholesterol: 154 (30 mg/dL more than LDL)
hs-CRP: 0.4 (<1 mg/L = low risk. 1-3 = avg risk. 3-10 = high risk)
ESR, Westergren: 9 (0-15 MM/HR)
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total: 54 (30-100ng/mL)
WBC Count: 4.9 (3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL)
RBC Count: 4.58 (4.2-5.8 Million/uL)
Hemoglobin: 14.8 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 43.5 (38.5-50.0%)
Platelet Count: 167 (140-400 Thousand/uL)

Probably you can stop using the Anastrazole.

 

[nothuman]

Probably you can stop using the Anastrazole.

Agreed. I'd want the E2 at 20-35

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have always been extremely prone to bloating, used to have pubertal gyno before surgery to remove it, etc so I wanted to give anastrazole a shot and actually Dr. McClain recommended it before I said anything.

I expected a positive recomp effect from it....which I didn't really get to a noticeable extent (lost a pound) surprisingly when I went on 2mg....although I did get a noticeably negative effect when I abruptly stopped it...despite only losing 1lb when starting it I gained 5lb within 10 days when I stopped it lol (kept calories constant).

Anyway, once I stabilized I tried again with 1mg per week (0.5mg 2x/week) and I think this level of 13pg/mL is a trough because 13 is what I got on 2mg anastrazole per week too.

When I'm not on any AI at all my estradiol ranges from 40-50pg/mL even on my small dose of 80mg per week, which I think is problematically high. What do you guys think? Doesn't seem like levels consistently that high would be a good idea.

 

[nothuman]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have always been extremely prone to bloating, used to have pubertal gyno before surgery to remove it, etc so I wanted to give anastrazole a shot and actually Dr. McClain recommended it before I said anything.



I expected a positive recomp effect from it....which I didn't really get to a noticeable extent (lost a pound) surprisingly when I went on 2mg....although I did get a noticeably negative effect when I abruptly stopped it...despite only losing 1lb when starting it I gained 5lb within 10 days when I stopped it lol (kept calories constant).



Anyway, once I stabilized I tried again with 1mg per week (0.5mg 2x/week) and I think this level of 13pg/mL is a trough because 13 is what I got on 2mg anastrazole per week too.



When I'm not on any AI at all my estradiol ranges from 40-50pg/mL even on my small dose of 80mg per week, which I think is problematically high. What do you guys think? Doesn't seem like levels consistently that high would be a good idea.

Interesting dilemma. I’d do a low dose 1mg every 3 days on your case and see what E2 ends up at