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1 Year Heart Update

  • Thread starter Deleted member 106824
  • Start date
Pumped340, You mention anxiety causing you chest pain. I can confirm similar feelings. I have had chest pain for at least a year or more - left upper pec to shoulder. Recent heart workup revealed nothing out of the ordinary. My cholesterol is a little out of whack, however I have a 0 calcium score. My stress test revealed a possible issue , which was ruled out by a nuclear stress test. My echo was fine - EF @64%.

The point I am making to you is that it can be stress related or possibly related to natural imbalances in the body (should issue, neck issue, ect..).

FWIW - I am on a low dose BB (Bystolic) and have no issues. Don't be afraid to take a BB. One of the "side effects" of a BB is less anxiety, and therefore what is not perfect for one person might just be the drug for you.
 
lots of good info here.. this thread makes me feel better. i have an ejection fration of 53 measured by an echo. it also showed left ventricular hypertrophy. and something called diffuse hypokinesis.

i was also under the impression that there isn't much you can do about improving ejection fraction.
 
Thank you to everyone who has posted. I'll address everything here.


DANTE: Thank you for the posts. I have been taking Ubiquinol/CoQ10 at 200mg this entire time. Never went above that dose though (was using Ubiquinol for a long time and eventually when to Qsorb). I have not tried Pycnogenol, I recall reading about it though. I do not remember my thought process in not purchasing it. I HAVE been taking 5g l-citrulline per day for the last few months though. I have also been taking Arjuna as it's in the Abana supplement I was taking. AND I was taking 2-3g taurine per day.

So that makes me feel even worse. If citrulline really does increase ejection fraction and taurine and arjuna are so great (which is why I was taking them) that means I'd be even lower without them? :(So even with all of these supplements that are supposed to help, it went down! and my cardiologist has now said "I know you've done a lot of research on them but I'd like you to come off of the supplements you're taking"


Honestly I would not worry to much about a 50% EF. Maybe just keep a eye on it and see if it gets worse year after year. If your super concerned have your doctor put you on Beta Blockers, but you most likely will not like the side effects.

For me, my ejection fraction is 24%. this causes my resting heart rate to stay in the 90bpm most of the time. I can't do much to fix this due to damage to my heart from a aortic dissection 2 years ago (genetic, nothing I did in my past). I have been to about 5 cardiologist , because 4 of them would not take me off the beta blockers because of was having severe side effects and ended up in the ER due to allergic reaction to one of them. What EVERY SINGLE cardiologist told me though was this.... "Their are a lot of people in the world with low EF, most don't even know they have it, and most live a perfectly normal lives" so I would not worry to much about 50%... just my two cents, I hope this helps comfort you some.

That is somewhat comforting, thank you. They have talked about putting me on beta blockers and something else (can't recall at the moment, I was pretty flustered trying to take everything in).

Now when you say "live a perfectly normal life" do you mean a normal lifeSPAN? That is my biggest concern, that I'm going to be 50-60 and croak, leaving my future wife and kids behind without a father. Not to mention for my own selfish reasons I of course want to live as long as possible.

I'm really sorry to hear this unfortunate news. You should try the new supplements that Dante just recommended, especially the pycnogenol and use the highest doses necessary. You didn't mention your diet, but make sure you buy grass fed/free range meats and eats tons of veggies/fruits (if you don't have a good blender, buy one pronto and make shakes a few times a day). Also, you really can't slack with cardio anymore.

Well now my doctor wants me off all of these supplements. I can't say he's got a good basis for it other than "they can have potential side effects" but at the same time they sure didn't seem to do anything to help. I'm honestly amazed. Like Dante mentioned a lot of the ones I've been taking have a lot of support for them and I've been taking almost all of them. I can't believe it not only didn't go up but actually went down.

As for my diet, I eat a ton of fruits and vegetables per day. 1-3lb per day. I have some sort of "junk" 1-2x per week but on the whole I eat very healthy and my blood work is fantastic now.

Here it is if anyone is interested:
Glucose: 76 (65-99 mg/dL)
Urea Nitrogen (BUN): 23 (7-25 mg/dL)
Creatinine: 1.15 (0.80-1.35 mg/dL)
Bilirubin: 0.6 (0.2-1.2mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase: 79 (40-115 U/L)
AST: 23 (10-40 U/L)
ALT: 54 (9-46 U/L)
eGFR Non-Afr Am.: 89 (> 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
eGFR Afr Am.: 103 (> 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
TSH: 5.24 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)
T4, Free: 0.9 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)
T3, Free: 2.8 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)
Estradiol: 51 (< 39 pg/mL)
Testosterone, Total: 1022 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 260.6 (35-155 pg/mL)
DHT: 72 (16-79 ng/dL)
C-Reactive Protein: <1 (<8 mg/L)
Cholesterol, Total: 164 (125-200 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol: 66 (> 40 mg/dL)
Cholesterol/HDL: 2.5 (< 5.0)
LDL Cholesterol: 85 (<130 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 67 (<150 mg/dL)
Non-HDL Cholesterol: 96 (30 more than LDL target)
Apolipoprotein A1: 145 (94-176)
Apolipoprotein B: 70 (52-109 mg/dL)
Lipoprotein (a): 33 (<75 nmol/L)
WBC Count: 6.1 (3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL)
RBC Count: 4.59 (4.2-5.8 Million/uL)
Hemoglobin: 14.5 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit: 44.5 (38.5-50.0%)
RDW: 14.4 (11-15%)
Platelet Count: 177 (140-400 Thousand/uL)


I was messing around with trying to bring down E2 while keeping Test at 125mg, but now I'm not even going to bother. I'm just going to bring it down to 100mg right away.

I am going to add in cardio for sure. I do wonder though how much it's really going to help when I'm sure I'm already getting a cardio-like effect from my trainng (Fortitude Training by Scott Stevenson). Additionally, I live in a city and average about 8000 steps per day, or ~3.5 miles. So between that and lifting I don't know how much more some standard cardio is going to help.

And as mentioned above the fact that I'm already doing all of these things just makes me feel worse. Like I'm already doing most things out there and it's still worsening so how bad would it be if I wasn't...

I have stuff ive studied I can recommend all the time....I just pick my spots to where I have the time and it pertains to what the thread is about. Show me the bloodwork or the problem and I usually have a fix. Ive been doing this "problem fixing" thing for a long time. Ive probably have looked at 35 pro bodybuilders bloodwork over the years...too many amateurs to count...I have fixed this stuff time and time again with supplements and tweaks....its what I like to do now.

That's awesome and I've seen you do this a lot over the years. Anything else you have to offer or help me along here is very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, it does seem like I'm already doing much of them with no benefit.

Wasn't you at one point a few years ago iron deficient, if I recall? Has this been resolved?

Have you ruled out the possibility of undiagnosed sleep apnea?

Both are related to low E.F℅

I have read several different literatures, there's an association of Crohn's Disease with subclinical cardiac dysfunction.

Hopefully you can narrow it down to the cause, instead of blindly throwing supplements down your throat.

Unfortunately my doctors have been of no assistance in helping me find the cause. I just assumed it was from my previous AAS use but I've dropped that for a while now.

Here are ALL of my blood work levels related to Iron:
3/3/12
Iron, Total: 54 (45-175mcg/dL)
Iron Binding Capacity: 325 (250-425 mcg/dL)
% Saturation: 17 (20-50%)
Ferritin: 40 (20-345 ng/mL)


4/10/12
Iron, Total: 33 (45-175 mcg/dL)
Iron Binding Capacity: 301 (250-425 mcg/dL)
% Saturation: 11 (20-50%)

3/3/14
Iron: 122 (45-175mcg/dL)
Iron Binding Capacity: 409 (250-425 mcg/dL)
% Saturation: 30 (20-50%)
Ferritin: 13 (20-345ng/mL)

7/7/15
Iron, Total: 71 (50-195mcg/dL)
Iron Binding Capacity: 352 (250-425 mcg/dL)
% Saturation: 20 (15-60%)

I have never gotten tested for sleep apnea. I have a thin neck, am only ~200lb, and no family history of it. But I should get it checked out, I wake up 1-3x per night, but it's always to go to the bathroom. Coincidentally there is a sleep study going on soon at my university but it's for women only.

And to be honest....Stewie could be 100% correct and you have seen me say it previously on this board too

All these guys who are dying in bodybuilding (outside of the high blood pressure kidney failure ones)....it very well could be they all had sleep apnea and every single one of them died from undiagnosed sleep apnea. It really could be that true and that simple. One out of every 10 adults in the USA now has sleep apnea of some kind....thats ALOT. You combine that ratio with football players (rampant) and bodybuilders with their large neck circumfrence and musculature....that very well might be the cause of all these guys dying of heart problems. I dont know for sure,,,but i do know this. If you do have OSA and you dont do anything about it....you are going to die....much much (decades) earlier than you normally would die. It will damage your heart beyond repair, diabetes, brain disease, strokes etc etc etc...but especially the heart....think about almost drowning 4 times a minute for 8 hours a night for years and years....thats basically the scenario. And if you dont do something about it (i cant stand the mask, i hate it..it has aged me greatly facially and carved lines in my face---I used to be accused of being 8-10 years younger than i was...that mask has taken that away from me) but the alternative is dying. So you pick your poison there...and I chose the mask and have worn it for 10 years now. Im not going to get surgery until i see something better than a 40% success rate and even when i was at my lowest bodyweight in 20 years I still had it....it is what it is. But if 1 out of 10 regular people have sleep apnea im speculating that the ratio for bodybuilders with any kind of enhanced muscle mass might be 1 out of 2

Very valid information, I'm just not sure how likely it is to apply to my. If you look at a guy like Adjos, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the cause. But I'm 6ft tall, and only 200lb. Biggest was 220 but now I keep it 190-210 most of the time, sometimes even lower. And my neck is like 15.5in lol even when I had 17in arms (I know...I'm small here), my neck was 16in max.

Having said that, at this point I think I should get it checked.

ALL: They have also brought up my thyroid. I was never truly hypothyroid but maybe subclinically so I got prescribed thyroid meds. I definitely abused T3 a few times in my past but not for 1-2 years. Even this past cut I did use it but stuck to 50mcg and that was it, came off, recovered low-normal levels as usual and that was that. So they have mentioned a few times how my heart issue could somehow be related to hypothyroidism but I don't think I really have that, and did finally tell my cardiologist today I do not take the thyroid meds anymore. Though my last blood work did have unusually high TSH (5.24)

Between this and my Crohn's...trying not to feel sorry for myself, I just want to get all of this handled. I found one study related to Crohn's and heart disease: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/550992

I have a cardiac MRI scheduled for October 7th. Do you think I should add in the cardio and drop my TRT to 100mg asap or keep things the same until then to get a true reading of where I'm at before any changes?
 
Sorry for the delayed responses. Maybe some will say I'm making too big of a deal out of this but I'm feeling pretty terrible at the moment (mentally). Full week of patients and 2 exams this week....I might try to get a medical delay for them because I can't focus on anything else right now.

Not sure if it's related, I assume not, but this morning when I walked into clinic I was getting very sweaty and shaking. I think it was just low blood sugar, when I ate two protein bars (40g carbs total) I felt better within 10min, but that never really happens to me so it was out of the ordinary and I figured I'd mention it here.


Cant post much now but just wanted to make some real quick points.

1. Ive seen echoes called 35-40 with MUGAs of mid 50's. Echoes can be decent estimations however there can still be some significant variability.

2. Your EDV LV measurement again can be subjective. Its difficult sometimes to pick the correct frame. I hope he is remeasuring it himself. If it is a 3mm increase then while not big its not going in the direction you would want.

3. Im not going to blame the juice as many things can cause a reduced EF in younger patients BUT i have been posting for years about cardiac remodeling directly related to AAS and how to "potentially" prevent/reduce that. Its a serious issue with others on the boards ive talked to as they thought it was only about HTN not realizing the direct effects it can have.

4. If your EF really is 40% id stop lifting heavy weights and get this under control. Id imagine before it really was 50% as both the echo and MRI showed that but if the echo was done first and if the person reading the MRI had access to the echo the numbers can EASILY be fudged a bit. When drawing the contours for the epi and endo surfaces it can be very subjective about what to include, i ball park it all the time.

He said when he went back and looked at it that it seemed like 45-50% still but I don't think he measured it like they did.

Regarding #3, what was the method of potentially reducing/preventing it? As far as hypertension goes, the highest mine has EVER been was 133/85 on cycle, at night. Almost always it was 120/80 on cycle and 110/70 off cycle. My BP has always been low-normal.

#4: That's what he said about the lifting. I figured it was ignorance doctor nonsense, at least partly, but was going to listen to him anyway just in case. But you agree it seems....I know squats and deads are out but does this mean NO heavy lifting at all? What about high reps pushed to failure, like say a 12RM on bench, is that still going to cause the same types of issues?

I too was wondering if they had the other tests' results if that could influence what they say.

Though last time I remember the MRI guy saying "well sometimes people have echo's of 40 and then we get an MRI of 60%" but in my case they both ended up being 50% so I have a bad feeling the MRI will say the same as the echo this time too.

Pumped340, You mention anxiety causing you chest pain. I can confirm similar feelings. I have had chest pain for at least a year or more - left upper pec to shoulder. Recent heart workup revealed nothing out of the ordinary. My cholesterol is a little out of whack, however I have a 0 calcium score. My stress test revealed a possible issue , which was ruled out by a nuclear stress test. My echo was fine - EF @64%.

The point I am making to you is that it can be stress related or possibly related to natural imbalances in the body (should issue, neck issue, ect..).

FWIW - I am on a low dose BB (Bystolic) and have no issues. Don't be afraid to take a BB. One of the "side effects" of a BB is less anxiety, and therefore what is not perfect for one person might just be the drug for you.

If I just had the chest pain I would not be worried at all. It's fairly minor now, and I don't even know if anxiety is the cause, it's just all I could think of, as it's definitely more noticeable these past few days since getting these tests done.

It's pretty much entirely the EF% I'm concerned about.

I did a stress EKG last year and maxed it out, once they got to 30min they said "well obviously you have no problem with exercise tolerance so we'll stop it there". We only got up to a VO2 of 33 I think but it clearly wasn't a max...when I tested my VO2 max a few years ago I think it was 47 or so but don't remember the exact value.



From one study "Preservation of LVEF has particular significance in excluding deleterious effects on cardiac function as this marker has proven prognostic significance whereby reductions of LVEF < 40% predict increased cardiovascular morbidity and mortality" :(
 
I feel your pain, I really do. I' got a CT scan this morning and won't find out the results until Wednesday, so I am scared shitless. It's the worst feeling in the world to get bad news from the doctor. I do suggest you find a new doctor, however, since this one is uneducated enough to tell you to stop taking supplements that aren't hurting you rather than admitting he just doesn't know enough about them. Maybe they aren't helping your EF, but the rest of your bloodwork is excellent, so I wouldn't stop them.
 
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I feel your pain, I really do. It's the worst feeling in the world to get bad news from the doctor. I do suggest you find a new doctor, however, since this one is uneducated enough to tell you to stop taking supplements that aren't hurting you rather than admitting he just doesn't know enough about them. Maybe they aren't helping your EF, but the rest of your bloodwork is excellent, so I wouldn't stop them.

It's literally the one thing that can make me feel this bad (I would also include bad news from a doctor about a loved one as well which can be just as bad). Even if something like getting kicked out of my future profession happened I would literally be calm about it and just realize I had to take another route in life...in college some of my friends would joke about how "robotic" I was like that at times lol.

But with health issues, it's awful. I answered the phone today right before a patient came in and I knew it was a bad idea. He told me "40%" and my heart just dropped. I couldn't focus on anything I needed to do and just had to hold it all in until I could get home. I tried to tell my brother but it was hard even talking to him on the phone.

Apologies for bitching here, just trying to get some of this out somewhere. I feel like someone has just told me I'm slowly dying and there's nothing else I can do but monitor it. I don't want to tell my girlfriend (...planned to soon be my fiance) or parents. They already worry about me for my Crohn's. Probably shouldn't keep it from the gf though to be honest.

The hospital I go to is considered to be a good one, though Hopkins is not terribly far away so maybe I should consider that option. They are ridiculous with appointments though, it could be months before I even saw a doctor. Where I'm at now will certainly ensure faster testing and treatment.
 
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Since I realized from Dante's posts I did not originally put down everything I take (or was taking up to the Echo), I'll put it here:

3g Acetyl l-carnitine
1130mg Hawthorn Berry
200mg CoQ10 (Qsorb)
300mg Magnesium Malate
10g D-Ribose
6-7g Fish Oil
1500mg Curcumin w Bioperine (recently switched to BCM-95)
-2-3g Taurine (just stopped, now it's just 1g in my magnesium pills)
-1440mg Abana per day (just ran out)
5g l-citrulline
5g creatine
5g beta alanine (just ran out)
3g Betaine Anhydrous
1 One-A-Day Multivitamin
4800mg Mesalamine (Asacol HD...for Crohn's)

That's everything. I've been taking most of them consistently for 9 months or so. The only thing I would even consider adding there is Pycnogenol (again, not sure why I didn't before) and I guess Humanofort now...but in any case all of the above didn't seem to help. Or who knows, maybe it would have been even worse.


Do you guys have any thoughts on my dropping my TRT to 100mg vs 80mg? Given my free test was 260.6 with a range of 35-155 I'm thinking maybe 80mg is a better choice. The old Free Test range used to go up to 244 with the same units....not sure why they dropped the upper limit so substantially. I'm thinking if I skip tonight's injection (42mg since I break my current 125mg into 3x/week) that would allow Test to go down a bit, and start up on Friday with 4x20mg that could work.



Edit: If anyone else has input about the working out that would be great too. I told them about how I used to get very light headed when doing squats. This has happened for years honestly. With heavy deads and squats I'd legitimately start to see stars/light specs and almost black out if I didn't stop for a second between reps. Even on smith squats this would happen, I've always pushed those exercises extremely hard. So I know heavy leg work is out. A few people have mentioned HIIT....but couldn't that cause a similar problem? And I've never had that feeling with upper body lifting, so I'm wondering if I could at least still hit that hard



Lastly, I've never been concerned about my salt intake because my blood pressure is great. But I do add a lot of salt to everything. Is it possible this could have a negative effect even if blood pressure is good?



Thank you guys for all of the help, I really appreciate the support here.
 
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Emeric,

Even if your heart is healthy, would you recommend humanafort for those that take gear or simply want to keep the heart strong?

Thank you

Yes, it helps to regenerate your own stem cells. Research has also shown clearly that new cell cultures show a dramatic increase in peptide and amino acid uptake in the presence of FGF. This result gives credence to the hypothesis that embryonic growth is influenced by a very precise mechanism, which combines unique combinations of amino acids, peptides and FGF.
 
Since I realized from Dante's posts I did not originally put down everything I take (or was taking up to the Echo), I'll put it here:

3g Acetyl l-carnitine
1130mg Hawthorn Berry
200mg CoQ10 (Qsorb)
300mg Magnesium Malate
10g D-Ribose
6-7g Fish Oil
1500mg Curcumin w Bioperine (recently switched to BCM-95)
-2-3g Taurine (just stopped, now it's just 1g in my magnesium pills)
-1440mg Abana per day (just ran out)
5g l-citrulline
5g creatine
5g beta alanine (just ran out)
3g Betaine Anhydrous
1 One-A-Day Multivitamin
4800mg Mesalamine (Asacol HD...for Crohn's)

That's everything. I've been taking most of them consistently for 9 months or so. The only thing I would even consider adding there is Pycnogenol (again, not sure why I didn't before) and I guess Humanofort now...but in any case all of the above didn't seem to help. Or who knows, maybe it would have been even worse.


Do you guys have any thoughts on my dropping my TRT to 100mg vs 80mg? Given my free test was 260.6 with a range of 35-155 I'm thinking maybe 80mg is a better choice. The old Free Test range used to go up to 244 with the same units....not sure why they dropped the upper limit so substantially. I'm thinking if I skip tonight's injection (42mg since I break my current 125mg into 3x/week) that would allow Test to go down a bit, and start up on Friday with 4x20mg that could work.



Edit: If anyone else has input about the working out that would be great too. I told them about how I used to get very light headed when doing squats. This has happened for years honestly. With heavy deads and squats I'd legitimately start to see stars/light specs and almost black out if I didn't stop for a second between reps. Even on smith squats this would happen, I've always pushed those exercises extremely hard. So I know heavy leg work is out. A few people have mentioned HIIT....but couldn't that cause a similar problem? And I've never had that feeling with upper body lifting, so I'm wondering if I could at least still hit that hard



Lastly, I've never been concerned about my salt intake because my blood pressure is great. But I do add a lot of salt to everything. Is it possible this could have a negative effect even if blood pressure is good?



Thank you guys for all of the help, I really appreciate the support here.

I would go with Dante`s recommendation and I would add the Huanofort and Fuvic acid.

Further analysis brought some of its key mechanisms of action to light. Fulvic acid contains two primary components, fulvic acid and DBPs (dibenzo-a-pyrones).

Fulvic acid independently stimulates mitochondrial energy metabolism, protects mitochondrial membranes from oxidative damage, and helps channel electron-rich DBPs into the mitochondria to support the electron transfer chain.69,70 Fulvic acid works as an electron “shuttle,” augmenting CoQ10 to speed electron flow within mitochondria.71-73

The DBPs in Fulvic acid serve as electron “reservoirs,” replenishing electrons lost by CoQ10 when it donates them to free radicals (thereby neutralizing them).70,74
 
I will read and respond to everything later today, I have patients all day and just stepped away to tell everyone the information I just found out. I feel terrible.

My cardiologist called and they said the new echo has my EF% at 40% :(


They want me to stop heavy lifting entirely. He is a fellow, so he's pretty young but he consulted with the head cardiologist there. They think the spikes in blood pressure from squats and deadlifts (and heavy lifting in general) may have something to do with it.

I don't know. But I can't believe this is happening. This is the worst I ever remember feeling. I'm 24 years old and he's talking about putting me on beta blockers and other heart medication. How the hell could this happen. I cycled for 2 years and want only on for maybe 1/2-2/3 of that. Never touched GH, peps, insulin, etc.

And how could it get worse?? It's lower and my dilation has gone from 60 to 63mm. I want to live to 90+, not 50.

I should have waited until tomorrow to talk to him. I can't even focus on my patients or anything else right now.
Definitely sorry to hear this. I'm 32 but I fear I could be in the same boat as you in a few years and it's all genetic. My father and uncle have enlarged heart and low EF and neither has ever been into lifting or AAS. Neither is obese and my uncle never even drank or smoked cigs. Don't beat yourself up about the why, it's very likely it could be entirely genetic and was out of your hands. You may have had EF issues whether you ever did a cycle or not. Don't dwell on it and blame yourself, that's negative energy. Focus instead on staying positive and healthy going into the future. You can live a long good life even with a low EF.
 
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I know you one of those never used the Humanofort and you don`t think to much about, I would be glad to give your father free to try it out. Humanofort protects mitochondria from free radical damage.
That's pretty kind of you Emeric. I was just not ever sold on the hard science behind Humanofort but I never did a lot of specific research on it either. What do you think about it, Dante?
 
Definitely sorry to hear this. I'm 32 but I fear I could be in the same boat as you in a few years and it's all genetic. My father and uncle have enlarged heart and low EF and neither has ever been into lifting or AAS. Neither is obese and my uncle never even drank or smoked cigs. Don't beat yourself up about the why, it's very likely it could be entirely genetic and was out of your hands. You may have had EF issues whether you ever did a cycle or not. Don't dwell on it and blame yourself, that's negative energy. Focus instead on staying positive and healthy going into the future. You can live a long good life even with a low EF.


My grandfather died of a heart attack but he was 66 and wasn't taking his meds....at that age it's not a risk factor for me. My father has a good heart and an ejection fraction of 60%. So I don't think it is in my family honestly.

I don't want to mope about this. Things could always be worse. But of course there is always that nagging "why me?" feeling. The AAS was dumb I suppose, but I researched it for years before beginning and got more blood work done than almost anyone I know of (5-10 times per year). And it was only 2-3 years with a significant portion being off. Other than that, I have had a very healthy diet from the time I was 14 years old (when I got into this 10 years ago). Obviously I exercise regularly. I don't do recreational drugs. I've probably consumed less than 30 alcoholic drinks in my entire life.

I appreciate the support and kind words.

Yes, it helps to regenerate your own stem cells. Research has also shown clearly that new cell cultures show a dramatic increase in peptide and amino acid uptake in the presence of FGF. This result gives credence to the hypothesis that embryonic growth is influenced by a very precise mechanism, which combines unique combinations of amino acids, peptides and FGF.

I would go with Dante`s recommendation and I would add the Huanofort and Fuvic acid.

Further analysis brought some of its key mechanisms of action to light. Fulvic acid contains two primary components, fulvic acid and DBPs (dibenzo-a-pyrones).

Fulvic acid independently stimulates mitochondrial energy metabolism, protects mitochondrial membranes from oxidative damage, and helps channel electron-rich DBPs into the mitochondria to support the electron transfer chain.69,70 Fulvic acid works as an electron “shuttle,” augmenting CoQ10 to speed electron flow within mitochondria.71-73

The DBPs in Fulvic acid serve as electron “reservoirs,” replenishing electrons lost by CoQ10 when it donates them to free radicals (thereby neutralizing them).70,74


Thanks Emeric. I am definitely ignorant on anything related to Humanofort, and honestly some of what you're getting into I have never heard of before. But I will try to make time this coming weekend to look into what is being talked about here.

I want to compile a document to bring to my cardiologist with this information for him to see. I don't want to do anything 'behind his back' but I want him to see the reasoning here.


Started searching "EF% and life span" and came across this old post...wish I could ask this guy what he did but it's 5 years old
 

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Make sure you get the MRI with contrast. Will want to see the 10 min delay images. Seen a few AAS induced myopathies resemble infarct but in a non vasc distribution. Not 100% sure it was that as theres no papers on it but my guess is any AAS induced remodeling would also have delayed washout. That was just my guess though. The MRI will be able to show you all your valves, and areas of dyskinesia, EF, left to right shunts etc.


Not that it pertains to you now but i also speculate that by disrupting the renin angiotensis system in the heart with something like an ACE or ARB it would help prevent AAS induced cardiac remodeling. Without there being contraindications bbers should consider using losartan to keep blood pressure in check and hopefully prevent some of the direct remodeling caused my AAS.
 
Make sure you get the MRI with contrast. Will want to see the 10 min delay images. Seen a few AAS induced myopathies resemble infarct but in a non vasc distribution. Not 100% sure it was that as theres no papers on it but my guess is any AAS induced remodeling would also have delayed washout. That was just my guess though. The MRI will be able to show you all your valves, and areas of dyskinesia, EF, left to right shunts etc.


Not that it pertains to you now but i also speculate that by disrupting the renin angiotensis system in the heart with something like an ACE or ARB it would help prevent AAS induced cardiac remodeling. Without there being contraindications bbers should consider using losartan to keep blood pressure in check and hopefully prevent some of the direct remodeling caused my AAS.

Last time they used contrast but I'll make sure they do again. Are they any other tests you (or others) can think of that I should try to get done?

Would you 2nd paragraph even change anything in someone like me who had low BP the entire time they used AAS? (assuming it was taken while cycling, not now).

Definitely feeling that chest constriction feeling right now like someone is lightly squeezing my heart.
 
Make sure you get the MRI with contrast. Will want to see the 10 min delay images. Seen a few AAS induced myopathies resemble infarct but in a non vasc distribution. Not 100% sure it was that as theres no papers on it but my guess is any AAS induced remodeling would also have delayed washout. That was just my guess though. The MRI will be able to show you all your valves, and areas of dyskinesia, EF, left to right shunts etc.





Not that it pertains to you now but i also speculate that by disrupting the renin angiotensis system in the heart with something like an ACE or ARB it would help prevent AAS induced cardiac remodeling. Without there being contraindications bbers should consider using losartan to keep blood pressure in check and hopefully prevent some of the direct remodeling caused my AAS.


Would telmisartan achieve the same thing as losartan for preventing cardiac remodeling?
 
Make sure you get the MRI with contrast. Will want to see the 10 min delay images. Seen a few AAS induced myopathies resemble infarct but in a non vasc distribution. Not 100% sure it was that as theres no papers on it but my guess is any AAS induced remodeling would also have delayed washout. That was just my guess though. The MRI will be able to show you all your valves, and areas of dyskinesia, EF, left to right shunts etc.


Not that it pertains to you now but i also speculate that by disrupting the renin angiotensis system in the heart with something like an ACE or ARB it would help prevent AAS induced cardiac remodeling. Without there being contraindications bbers should consider using losartan to keep blood pressure in check and hopefully prevent some of the direct remodeling caused my AAS.
Love seeing you in this thread. So would you recommend high risk individuals with a possible genetic predisposition for enlarged heart and/or low EF to take a common ACE inhibitor like lisinopril at 25mg? I mean anyone with borderline hypertension would benefit anyway. Risk vs reward seems to favor it, at least on cycle.
 
Last time they used contrast but I'll make sure they do again. Are they any other tests you (or others) can think of that I should try to get done?

Would you 2nd paragraph even change anything in someone like me who had low BP the entire time they used AAS? (assuming it was taken while cycling, not now).

Definitely feeling that chest constriction feeling right now like someone is lightly squeezing my heart.

If it was like legit low like SBP < 110 routinely then I wouldnt recommend it. Most guys BP goes up a bit on cycle so if your BP is above 120 on a normal basis then low dose could be used without much issues on your BP but HOPEFULLY it will help prevent some remodeling.
 
Would telmisartan achieve the same thing as losartan for preventing cardiac remodeling?

yes and its probably better because of the PPAR activation for bodybuilders. I initially recommended it YEARS ago but then with the PPAR and cancer possible link I backed off and recommended losartan but then telmi was shown not to be an issue so im back to recommending it again.

See this is all just based on my interpretation of the data out there and risk vs reward. I mean we know that major issues of having elevated BP on cycle so if we are gonna bring it down lets bring it down with something that might also hel prevent cardiac remodeling from AAS use ( not even HTN induced).
 
Love seeing you in this thread. So would you recommend high risk individuals with a possible genetic predisposition for enlarged heart and/or low EF to take a common ACE inhibitor like lisinopril at 25mg? I mean anyone with borderline hypertension would benefit anyway. Risk vs reward seems to favor it, at least on cycle.

On cycle yes I would suggest it. I generally dont recommend the ACE unless someone is already on it as too many people do get a cough from it and I saw two cases of bad angioedema.

Always risk vs reward. its highly unlikely to be the studies needed to show it makes a difference but if we know the underlying mechanism we can hopefully disrupt it with little risk and max reward.
 
yes and its probably better because of the PPAR activation for bodybuilders. I initially recommended it YEARS ago but then with the PPAR and cancer possible link I backed off and recommended losartan but then telmi was shown not to be an issue so im back to recommending it again.



See this is all just based on my interpretation of the data out there and risk vs reward. I mean we know that major issues of having elevated BP on cycle so if we are gonna bring it down lets bring it down with something that might also hel prevent cardiac remodeling from AAS use ( not even HTN induced).


Good to know. I've been taking 40mg daily ever since I read this article.

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/3/Best-Drug-To-Treat-Hypertension/Page-01
 

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