• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
esquel
YMSGIF210x65-Banner
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

10 mg

Hi Emeric, my lipids have improved drastically in 4 weeks. HDL up from 31 to 38, LDL:HDL ratio down from 2.7 to 1.5. My resting heart rate has also come down from 76 to 52, which also I’m assuming is related the the reduction in dose. I feel fine like i did at the higher dosage but am getting sore for the first time in Years. Thanks for all the insight!
You welcome.
 
Some successful bodybuilders have virtually unlimited quantities of some things;
supplements, steroids, power or access to power or sex(?). But they, like everyone
else, also had limited quantities of other things, such as life, health, duration of
career, reputation, time with family, etc. They get into trouble by putting at risk
what they had limited amounts of in order to increase the quantities of those things
they had unlimited amounts of.
 

Interesting. The mean intake of anabolics (reportedly deca, win and test prop) was ~1g/week and users averaged ~6 years. I'd expect some damage there...curious where the breakdown would be... say someone did 1/3 of that for 3x as long would the damage be similar? I'd expect at some point lower on the dosing scale the falloff of negative effects would make it insignificant. For sure at the 10-20mg daily level discussed here there would be statistically NO damage... and actual improvement.
 
Nice study. It was run well and has good analysis. I like how they discuss the limitations of the study!

"Previous studies reported that long-term illicit use of supraphysiologic doses of AAS was associated with reduced LV diastolic functions (impaired relaxation and reduced compliance of LV), increased LV mass, LV/atrial hypertrophy, subclinical systolic impairment, increased myocardial stiffness and myocardial fibrosis, and altered cardiac autonomic system regulation [47, 20, 21, 27]. Furthermore, it has been reported that myocardial infarction, cardiomyopathy, sudden death, cardiovascular morbidity, and mortality have significantly increased in long-term AAS using bodybuilders more than nonusers [28]. In addition, arrhythmic events were described secondary to the long-term intake of AAS. Although AF is the most frequently observed arrhythmia, ventricular arrhythmias were also described [811, 29]. However, it is not clear that AAS using bodybuilders are more prone to rhythm disturbances compared with nonusers."
 
If employing the 10mg x 8 wks alternating with 20mg x 8 wks strategy, what is the best way to time things along with bulking, mini-cut, and cutting phases? Would it be better to blast and "bulk" on 20mg and then time a 10mg block when dieting? Or would the higher 20mg dose during a deficit be better, for muscle sparing effect?
 
I want to thank you for this sir. I had two CBC tests separated by two weeks. I was using a prescribed 150 mg. One shot a week. First test Hematocrit was 54.5. Started 10mg a day. Nothing else lifestyle was changed. Second Test 52.1. Thats only in two weeks. Unreal.
 
I want to thank you for this sir. I had two CBC tests separated by two weeks. I was using a prescribed 150 mg. One shot a week. First test Hematocrit was 54.5. Started 10mg a day. Nothing else lifestyle was changed. Second Test 52.1. Thats only in two weeks. Unreal.
Biggest thing there is your weekly dose dropped by more than 1/2. From 150 mg down to 70mg/wk. The small daily dose also helped out Im sure.
 
If employing the 10mg x 8 wks alternating with 20mg x 8 wks strategy, what is the best way to time things along with bulking, mini-cut, and cutting phases? Would it be better to blast and "bulk" on 20mg and then time a 10mg block when dieting? Or would the higher 20mg dose during a deficit be better, for muscle sparing effect?
IMO, logically it would make the most sense to do the higher dose when you are eating more so that you can "feed" growth. When you are trying to lean down you wont be trying to add any muscle mass.
 
Hi Emeric I really enjoy your insights. do you have any advice for someone with a degenerated disc in lower back? I can still train, not too heavy but sometimes the nerve pain and muscle spasms inhibit my training particularly cardio.
 
Biggest thing there is your weekly dose dropped by more than 1/2. From 150 mg down to 70mg/wk. The small daily dose also helped out Im sure.
Im sure. I just thought it would take longer than two weeks with the buildup of the drug over the years.
 
Im sure. I just thought it would take longer than two weeks with the buildup of the drug over the years.
Well, that is a modest drop in hematocrit and with every test there is a margin of error too. im not sure what the margin of error is with that test but it could account for part of that difference too.
 
The issue with the crit test is that if youre dehyrated you'll have destroyed labs. My doc got in the habit of ordering a whole blood viscosity test with my cbc.

Even if my rbc and crit were blown up, my whole blood viscosity came back perfect and he was good with that.

Prior to this i would come in, give labs, get a 55 on crit, come back the next day and have a 49 or a 50. The crit test is a good metric but it is over relied on.

I asked about getting phlebotomy and he said that only makes it worse. This was a much better outcome.


Im sure. I just thought it would take longer than two weeks with the buildup of the drug over the years.
 
Good point about hydration. Hydration alone would make it raise and lower enough to account for a lot. I forgot to mention that!
 
8 week results are in. I used 10mg Sub-Q prescription Test C/Day and 400mg humanoforte/day. Prior to this I was using @100mg test c + 100mg NPP weekly, split into 3 doses, with 50mg clomid/week, for a year or so.

I had very comprehensive bloodwork done, and everything not mentioned below was in normal range. The hi-lights for me are as follows:

***HDL Ref Range >39***
Start: 20
8 Week: 43

My HDL hasn’t been within range in a decade. My Lipid Profile is really the driving factor behind my testing this protocol, and I’m really pleased with this.

***LDL/HDL Ratio***
1.4 (1/2 avg risk of cardiac event)

***Testosterone Ref Range 264-916***
8 Week: 881

***Free Testosterone Ref Range 6.8-21.5 pg/mL***
8 Week: 20.7

***Estradiol Sensitive Ref Range 8-35***
8 Week: 17.5

***FSH/LH***
0 (I wanted to see if it was possible for LH and FSH to come back with this dose. To this point, no)


Comments:

Strength - Strength and weight are both certainly down, but so is BP, and I’m far less watery.

Libido - Was the best I had ever experienced with the Test+NPP prior, so let’s set that at 8, and average at 5. I’m now at maybe a 6. Libido is reduced, but seems to be coming back lately. I have no idea why NPP increased my libido and seminal volume so much, where almost everything else does not.

Testicles - have increased to normal size, even without clomid or HCG. I didn’t have a lot of atrophy over 8 years of TRT and some modest blasting, but they were down maybe 20% over the years. They really didn't shrink until I started using the NPP.

Joints - NPP did help my joints, and I’m now having some muscle soreness, which I hadn’t had in many years. Curcumin meriva is helping a lot with the joints.

I made some other training and dietary changes that could contribute to these results. I eat way more plants, do more cardio and have been in 300 calorie deficit, I’d say I’m transitioning from bodybuilding to longevity at this point, and this approach seems suitable. Less drugs, more stable bloodwork, but I am probably not going to be making a lot of gains. I have actually dropped weight over the last couple years and my sleep apnea has gone away.


@emeric - do you see people continue to make improvements after week 8? For adding muscle, how long do you suggest to run the 20mg/day before returning to 10 in my case, in my 40's?
 
Awesome results. It takes me 20mg/daily to get those same levels of serum testosterone.
 
Awesome results. It takes me 20mg/daily to get those same levels of serum testosterone.
A friend and I used the same dr, same dose for a long time. Same testing protocol and he’d come in Around the 500’s and I was always >1500. I’m really curious about the mechanisms behind this. He also put muscle on easier than anyone I knew, and vastly easier than me. He’s also about 10 years older. Anyone have ideas?
 
  • Wow
Reactions: GG
8 week results are in. I used 10mg Sub-Q prescription Test C/Day and 400mg humanoforte/day. Prior to this I was using @100mg test c + 100mg NPP weekly, split into 3 doses, with 50mg clomid/week, for a year or so.

I had very comprehensive bloodwork done, and everything not mentioned below was in normal range. The hi-lights for me are as follows:

***HDL Ref Range >39***
Start: 20
8 Week: 43

My HDL hasn’t been within range in a decade. My Lipid Profile is really the driving factor behind my testing this protocol, and I’m really pleased with this.

***LDL/HDL Ratio***
1.4 (1/2 avg risk of cardiac event)

***Testosterone Ref Range 264-916***
8 Week: 881

***Free Testosterone Ref Range 6.8-21.5 pg/mL***
8 Week: 20.7

***Estradiol Sensitive Ref Range 8-35***
8 Week: 17.5

***FSH/LH***
0 (I wanted to see if it was possible for LH and FSH to come back with this dose. To this point, no)


Comments:

Strength - Strength and weight are both certainly down, but so is BP, and I’m far less watery.

Libido - Was the best I had ever experienced with the Test+NPP prior, so let’s set that at 8, and average at 5. I’m now at maybe a 6. Libido is reduced, but seems to be coming back lately. I have no idea why NPP increased my libido and seminal volume so much, where almost everything else does not.

Testicles - have increased to normal size, even without clomid or HCG. I didn’t have a lot of atrophy over 8 years of TRT and some modest blasting, but they were down maybe 20% over the years. They really didn't shrink until I started using the NPP.

Joints - NPP did help my joints, and I’m now having some muscle soreness, which I hadn’t had in many years. Curcumin meriva is helping a lot with the joints.

I made some other training and dietary changes that could contribute to these results. I eat way more plants, do more cardio and have been in 300 calorie deficit, I’d say I’m transitioning from bodybuilding to longevity at this point, and this approach seems suitable. Less drugs, more stable bloodwork, but I am probably not going to be making a lot of gains. I have actually dropped weight over the last couple years and my sleep apnea has gone away.


@emeric - do you see people continue to make improvements after week 8? For adding muscle, how long do you suggest to run the 20mg/day before returning to 10 in my case, in my 40's?


your Estrtadiol is low honestly, especially if you have medium - high SHBG
 
Great Labs the skunk

look at it this way your health increased, cholesterol is better, blood pressure better.

I'm still competing and go down after cycle to 10 mgs on trt, as this helps out my health.
 
your Estrtadiol is low honestly, especially if you have medium - high SHBG

Not sure why, but the sensitive e2 has historically come in far lower than the regular e2 test for me. A few years ago I even had them done simultaneously out of curiosity. I’m not on any type of AI so not sure what the simple solution would be to let e2 rise. Next time I’ll get the regular test.
 

Staff online

  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge

Forum statistics

Total page views
558,041,217
Threads
135,756
Messages
2,768,617
Members
160,341
Latest member
Sickxlost
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yourmuscleshop210x131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top