20 years of experience...

[Stewie]

Where's syntherolman and his 9 PM buddies? We had quit the hot topic on long-term health consequences of Supraphysiological levels of Testosterone. He thinks different

Thanks for sharing your story... glad your doing ok today.

 

[MooseKnuckles]

Great thread so truthful

 

[Kaladryn]

No it is not for some. Bloods don't lie, and for many 200 only gets them to 800 or so. Why do some people think there dose is correct for everyone else?

Because at the molecular level individual biochemistry is extremely similar. There is a mega study on TRT shows VERY little variance on dosage and total test, I don't currently have full access to it or I would post. It is 100 times more likely that the test is underdosed, the patient isn't complying with dosage recommendations, the test is being released slower due to scar tissue pockets, etc, than large differences in the actual metabolism of the test. And if you DID see large metabolism differences, you would see large differences in metabolites as well, which is also extremely rare.

I don't think you are lying, I just would just need more evidence about your scientific method used before I would rule out other factors.

 

[MaineGuy]

Because at the molecular level individual biochemistry is extremely similar. There is a mega study on TRT shows VERY little variance on dosage and total test, I don't currently have full access to it or I would post. It is 100 times more likely that the test is underdosed, the patient isn't complying with dosage recommendations, the test is being released slower due to scar tissue pockets, etc, than large differences in the actual metabolism of the test. And if you DID see large metabolism differences, you would see large differences in metabolites as well, which is also extremely rare.

I don't think you are lying, I just would just need more evidence about your scientific method used before I would rule out other factors.

Sounds logical. I will see what my next bloods look like. I guess that also depends on when I test during the week. Also, someone posted a chart here that was a study showing that if a person with natty test levels of say around 550ng/dl, if they injected anything less than 125mg/week of test it would actually give them a lower testosterone level than the natty level. This study was done on numerous test subjects. It is on this site somewhere.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Sounds logical. I will see what my next bloods look like. I guess that also depends on when I test during the week. Also, someone posted a chart here that was a study showing that if a person with natty test levels of say around 550ng/dl, if they injected anything less than 125mg/week of test it would actually give them a lower testosterone level than the natty level. This study was done on numerous test subjects. It is on this site somewhere.

I would like to see that study.

 

[MaineGuy]

I would like to see that study.

Still looking for exact study, but check this one out, page 5
http://www.afboard.com/library/AS-dose-study.pdf

Check this one out, read first paragraph, 125mg/week of test gave 542ng/dl
**broken link removed**

Still looking at this site for other study that was on here, cannot find as of now.
Someone else might remember.

 

[MightyJohn]

Awesome thread OP I agree 100%

 

[Kaladryn]

Sounds logical. I will see what my next bloods look like. I guess that also depends on when I test during the week. Also, someone posted a chart here that was a study showing that if a person with natty test levels of say around 550ng/dl, if they injected anything less than 125mg/week of test it would actually give them a lower testosterone level than the natty level. This study was done on numerous test subjects. It is on this site somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are variances due to many factors, blood volume, metabolism, dispersion from injection site, ester cleavage rate, etc.

Even if most of these variances are very small, they could all come together in some cases and make large differences.

The most likely difference, from the chemistry I know, is ester cleavage rate. It would be much more likely to see large differences in how fast the testosterone would be becoming available than in how fast the free testosterone was being metabolized. This would make when you took the blood test relative to your last injection vary, like you said.

I do think the cases where people say they need 300mg or more per week to hit "normal" are very suspect, 200 isn't that unlikely. Using an AI or 5ARI could also make a big difference, HCG would also make a difference, obviously...

 

[Kaladryn]

Still looking for exact study, but check this one out, page 5
http://www.afboard.com/library/AS-dose-study.pdf

Check this one out, read first paragraph, 125mg/week of test gave 542ng/dl
**broken link removed**

Still looking at this site for other study that was on here, cannot find as of now.
Someone else might remember.

I've seen that study, good find, thanks for posting. They did the tests one week after injection, so that 125mg group was probably close to double that at peak, since halflife is around 7-8 days for enanthate.

Notice the extremely small variation from the average at all dose levels.

For the 600mg group, the change from baseline was 2,370 ± 150, less than a 10% variance in metabolism.

To the OP, sorry we completely hijacked this thread although this does apply to the original subject matter a little...

 

[anabolic2k]

5. Alcohol is bad...

25 years in the game and i 100% agree with all but the above!

Far too much of a blank statement for me, as with everything in life there is a huge diffrence between occassional use and abuse

 

[Theanswer]

Great thread. Thank you for the insight. It's good to make some of us younger cats think about things, before it is being done in hindsight... & problems have already set in.

 

[tWack]

Nice list!
I like the 'taking time to smell the roses' part!

 

[cornertech]

nice post & congrats on 20 yrs...

 

[emeric delczeg]

Still looking for exact study, but check this one out, page 5
http://www.afboard.com/library/AS-dose-study.pdf

Check this one out, read first paragraph, 125mg/week of test gave 542ng/dl
**broken link removed**

Still looking at this site for other study that was on here, cannot find as of now.
Someone else might remember.

If they would administrate the 125mg in 5 small injections the outcome wold be totally different, the subject would and up with over 1000 ng/dl.

 

[advancedphysique]

Great Post

 

[Wesley Inman]

25 years lifting, and 17 competing for me..I agree 100%...

I'd add in, rest and take time off when you are injured...

Also Undertraining is better then Overtraining.

 

[MaineGuy]

If they would administrate the 125mg in 5 small injections the outcome wold be totally different, the subject would and up with over 1000 ng/dl.

Most TRT docs do not administer it that way though. I do have a question if you can answer. Would you get more of a peak in Testosterone if you took one large shot instead of many small ones? I am not saying that is the way to do it, but i am just curious.

 

[maldorf]

Most TRT docs do not administer it that way though. I do have a question if you can answer. Would you get more of a peak in Testosterone if you took one large shot instead of many small ones? I am not saying that is the way to do it, but i am just curious.

Yes, the peak actually hits in the first 48 hours after injection, I was very surprised to learn that from my endo. I always though that long esters wouldn't do that. I take just 100 mg/wk, and when I was tested less than 48 hours after injection my level was up around 1200.

 

[pryde]

For TRT I use 100mg a week of cyp and inject 50mg on tuesday and on friday. My doctor told me to always test on friday (before my scheduled shot) or on monday for an accurate peak level. My levels come out around 1100-1200 every time now.

Injecting twice a week is the absolute minimum in my experience..once a week is no bueno.

 

[robertfhub]

If they would administrate the 125mg in 5 small injections the outcome wold be totally different, the subject would and up with over 1000 ng/dl.

Ive got 20+ years of cycling in and I recently started doing the daily sub q shots of test every day. Just from experience I can tell you it works very well. my libido and mood are excellent. Strength is also very good.
OP I agree 100% Thanks for posting.