2008 Nationals Heavyweights ???

[chris250]

After getting the new Flex mag at the store yesterday, I was reading the article on Nats...After veiwing the pics in the magazine, I have noticed that the Heavyweights seem not as thick as normal...I mean from front to back thickness...I mean Alvisi is ripped and dry, but at only 205-206lbs he isnt a huge heavyweight, and also Liberatore (look at the rear lat spread shot) he lacks lower back thickness...But again is ripped to the bone with glutes hard as hell...the only guy that is slightly soft would be Huh ...If you look at the line up there isnt to many guys I see that are know for crazy thickness...Besides Jeff Long...Smalls(5th) is pretty thick (again front to back) but his conditioning wasnt up to par at this show...

What do you guys think ? Do you think they are just over doing cardio and going for crazy conditioning or are just over dieting ?

 

[mr. boom]

I thought the same about Liberatore. You know Chris one way to tell if your getting bigger is people that used to look big to us don't look as big as they use to.

 

[chris250]

I thought the same about Liberatore. You know Chris one way to tell if your getting bigger is people that used to look big to us don't look as big as they use to.

Curt,

Yeah I agree with you there...Im not as impressed by guys now as I use to be when I was much younger...But still Im thinking back like guys like Fletcher, Prince, Titus, Cromier...Those guys seem so thick to me...I know Cromier was only 224 when he turn pro, Titus, was maybe 230 on stage...Prince was in the low 230's...they seem so thick and huge to me...Now guys in the heavyweights are competing around 210-220lbs instead of being right at the 224 1/4 mark...Guys use to come down a weight class to be more competive...

 

[latimus]

I think its what bodybuilding is evolving to. a few years back it seemed the mass monsters with huge guts were getting better placements. and even now in the pros it seems the judges are looking at conditioning more and the waistline. correct me if I am wrong are some of these npc judges judging both ifbb and the top npc shows? cause it seems like they would place the conditioned guys on top so that ifbb bodybuiling will move in that direction.
I mean shit even at the recent ironman pro there was only a small handfull of people with feathered glutes and in the E cup there are ususally at least 5 or 6. I think deep down the judges would like to see a change at the next level(ifbb) so they are rewarding the guys they want to see on that stage.

 

[concreteguy]

After getting the new Flex mag at the store yesterday, I was reading the article on Nats...After veiwing the pics in the magazine, I have noticed that the Heavyweights seem not as thick as normal...I mean from front to back thickness...I mean Alvisi is ripped and dry, but at only 205-206lbs he isnt a huge heavyweight, and also Liberatore (look at the rear lat spread shot) he lacks lower back thickness...But again is ripped to the bone with glutes hard as hell...the only guy that is slightly soft would be Huh ...If you look at the line up there isnt to many guys I see that are know for crazy thickness...Besides Jeff Long...Smalls(5th) is pretty thick (again front to back) but his conditioning wasnt up to par at this show...

What do you guys think ? Do you think they are just over doing cardio and going for crazy conditioning or are just over dieting ?

Cris, I don't mean to split hairs on this, But wouldn't the issue be purely "genetic"? This was your position in the last "There is no bodybuilding genetics" thread.The point was made in the genetics thread that it takes superior "pro" genetics to "keep your mass yet achieve a super low fat% and asthetic vascularity". This was said by a very respected member.
Shouldnt they all have the same superior genetics at that level?

Just sharing what I took away from that thread

 

[The Myth]

I agree.....

I think its what bodybuilding is evolving to. a few years back it seemed the mass monsters with huge guts were getting better placements. and even now in the pros it seems the judges are looking at conditioning more and the waistline. correct me if I am wrong are some of these npc judges judging both ifbb and the top npc shows? cause it seems like they would place the conditioned guys on top so that ifbb bodybuiling will move in that direction.
I mean shit even at the recent ironman pro there was only a small handfull of people with feathered glutes and in the E cup there are ususally at least 5 or 6. I think deep down the judges would like to see a change at the next level(ifbb) so they are rewarding the guys they want to see on that stage.

At last years USA's, I thought Lee Banks carried more thickness than Mike and Brandon. However, I think the judges were looking for the most conditioned competitor, which place Lee in 3rd behind Mike and Brandon.

 

[chris250]

Cris, I don't mean to split hairs on this, But wouldn't the issue be purely "genetic"? This was your position in the last "There is no bodybuilding genetics" thread.The point was made in the genetics thread that it takes superior "pro" genetics to "keep your mass yet achieve a super low fat% and asthetic vascularity". This was said by a very respected member.
Shouldnt they all have the same superior genetics at that level?

Just sharing what I took away from that thread

I can see your point...Maybe these guys are not as gifted as those guys I mention earlier in this thread...I dont think anyone from this Nat could be a 94 Cormeir, or 93 Flex, or 92 Levorne...Which all these guys competed around 225 or less...I dont think the level of guys now are as good as the early 90's guys...there are a few new guys that will do some damage, but seems to me that even after you turn pro, you need a year or two to get that pro muscle...When all those guys turn pro (early 90's guys) they were ready to rumble..

 

[BuffD]

I think the problem is guys that really should be heavies are going into the Super Heavies and end up being a soft super. So guys that end up shredded at the bottom of the heavies take the top spots. I saw a few pics of Alvisi and Libatore and yes they are shredded but not really all that impressive size wise.

 

[JuiceJunkie]

my question is with the welterweights, how did JB Bartlett not win, he was thicker and more muscular than the winner.

 

[chris250]

I think the problem is guys that really should be heavies are going into the Super Heavies and end up being a soft super. So guys that end up shredded at the bottom of the heavies take the top spots. I saw a few pics of Alvisi and Libatore and yes they are shredded but not really all that impressive size wise.

Very true..Good point

 

[SZona]

I think the problem is guys that really should be heavies are going into the Super Heavies and end up being a soft super. So guys that end up shredded at the bottom of the heavies take the top spots. I saw a few pics of Alvisi and Libatore and yes they are shredded but not really all that impressive size wise.

Exactly....there are two distinct differences between now and then #1 the addition of the superheavy class #2 the idea that everyone has to have striated glutes. I know personally I look way better at a thick full hard 225-230 where the only line in my a$$ is the vertical one....

Z

 

[Shelby]

I know personally I look way better at a thick full hard 225-230 where the only line in my a$$ is the vertical one....

Z

That made me laugh out loud

 

[buselmo]

I don't know if what i'm saying applies to the nats in your country... but some of the top competitors here in my country weigh 210-220 lbs a week before the contest, and compete at 187 lbs the week after... they look thick and ripped (but not shredded) at 210-220, but contest day, they're not thick at all and kind of 'stringy' if you know what i mean but shredded to the bone. they don't even sweat on stage after a long ass posedown... Over dieting and over doing the cardio isn't going to make you lose 20-30 lbs in a week and look shredded.

 

[chris250]

I don't know if what i'm saying applies to the nats in your country... but some of the top competitors here in my country weigh 210-220 lbs a week before the contest, and compete at 187 lbs the week after... they look thick and ripped (but not shredded) at 210-220, but contest day, they're not thick at all and kind of 'stringy' if you know what i mean but shredded to the bone. they don't even sweat on stage after a long ass posedown... Over dieting and over doing the cardio isn't going to make you lose 20-30 lbs in a week and look shredded.

Buselmo,

Actully here in the states, at Nats and the USA's back in the early 90's I think guys actully did do that to make a lighter weight class..But now with the Superheavyweight class, these guys are trying to get into the class even if they are softer, becasue they think it is an easlier class..I think here in the states, guys dont worry about weight classes as much as they use to...

chris

 

[hard2core2]

JB Bartlett

I saw pictures of JB at the weigh in a day before the show and he looked excellent..full, tight...very conditioned... I could tell that he really did his homework and came into the contest well prepared...his waist is a tad wide if I recall when he was standing in his front relaxed pose..other than that he looked sharp.
After the weighins he did something...since the pics after that at prejudging etc..he looked more puffy..etc.. I think he went a little to heavy on the carbs..mabey he took in some junk like burgers/fries or something because he thought it would bring out the vascularity since he was so lean who and it hinders his conditioning. He was the thickest guy in his class.

my question is with the welterweights, how did JB Bartlett not win, he was thicker and more muscular than the winner.

 

[JuiceJunkie]

i think he is already up to 205, going to move up to the middleweights next year, felt he had to drop to much to get to that class. waist was a little wider. saw online that jdges thought that other guy had smaller waist and rounder muscle heads. not sure, wish him the best though, very infomative.

 

[muscledoc1]

After getting the new Flex mag at the store yesterday, I was reading the article on Nats...After veiwing the pics in the magazine, I have noticed that the Heavyweights seem not as thick as normal...I mean from front to back thickness...I mean Alvisi is ripped and dry, but at only 205-206lbs he isnt a huge heavyweight, and also Liberatore (look at the rear lat spread shot) he lacks lower back thickness...But again is ripped to the bone with glutes hard as hell...the only guy that is slightly soft would be Huh ...If you look at the line up there isnt to many guys I see that are know for crazy thickness...Besides Jeff Long...Smalls(5th) is pretty thick (again front to back) but his conditioning wasnt up to par at this show...

What do you guys think ? Do you think they are just over doing cardio and going for crazy conditioning or are just over dieting ?

You realy need to see him in person,pictures do not do him any justice.

 

[chris250]

You realy need to see him in person,pictures do not do him any justice.

who Libertore, Alvisi ?

 

[muscledoc1]

who Libertore, Alvisi ?

Mike.

 

[BuffD]

Mike.

I have seen him in person and as far as conditioning goes he's a freak but he isn't all that big looking imo. There just aren't alot of really big thick heavies out there right now. The ones that would be all want to be in the Supers.