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3 months on True Proteins Super Test Booster Results as promised

I'm glad to hear ppl are having positive results from this stuff.....some of the literature sounds promising. At 3g's a day, unfortunately, I have to put this one on the LONG list of supps that do NOTHING for me:(

Have you had blood work done?
 
SAME HERE !

This product is a staple in my pct. After 2 weeks of using it during pct i felt like i was totally recovered. Amazing product!!!!!

I tried one bottle and definetely felt it, no placebo effect. I will get more and use it longer term for sure. :headbang:
 
I have tried DAA as well and it actually did nothing for me and I had blood work done before and after. This product is still fairly new and from what I have seen and heard it does not react the same in everyone. I for one will not say it does not work but it just did not work for me. I think the product is still a little over hyped and not enough studies have shown proven results.

The product I was able to test for based on results has not been released as it did not show enough positives for them to put in their line of supplements

We had our DAA go thru 2 independant labs before we released it. Obviously it passed with flying colors or I wouldnt be posting or carrying it. Why am I stating this? Because according to the grapevine, there is alot of bunk DAA being sold out there (some of it the retail company's fault, some of it the retail company's sources fault). I have no idea what company you tested out the DAA with but.....my intuition says you might want to try another source (or maybe it just doesnt work for you... I don't know)

I have never ever ever ever EVER seen more shysters in the Nutritional Supplement Industry than I have seen in this recession. Especially with this whey protein shortage and things like DAA. Im sitting here typing this this morning so freaking disgusted you wouldnt even believe it.

For years my business partner and I have wondered how the hell certain companies have been selling certain products for so low.....we buy huge amounts of those raw ingredients...WE KNOW THE COST. We could not figure it out. So what happened? We found out that a large custom manufacturing operation (with many side companys operating) were making a HUGE amount of products for the retail companys out there you see in the GNC's and vitamin stores.

Im not talking tiddlywinks here guys. Im talking hundred upon hundreds of thousands (millions) of pounds of raw ingredients.

What happened? That parent company (and some of its subsid's) got investigated, shut down in some facets, and its employees imploded (for lack of better words and scattered making new companies).

So now I got all these retail companies wanting me to make their products for them of late. I am so busy its making my head spin. But whats the problem? Some of the very same (head honcho's) who are the mass brokers for these companies are in charge that were previously in charge of accounts for these retail supplement companies (I aint naming names of companys, trust me when i say youve heard of them all)......so what are these guys asking me to do for these numerous random companys they represent for?

They FUCKED THEMSELVES! They were cutting the raw ingredients and the proteins!!!!! They were putting in maltodextrin and other FILLER INGREDIENTS in all these products and then just BALD FACE LYING that what was on the label was TRUE!. So how did they F themselves? You tell me how you tell your company that has been paying 4 dollars a pound (which was bunk cut material filled with dextrose or maltodextrin) that the price is now 6.50 a pound (FROM DOUG AND MY COMPANY WHO SELLS LEGIT RAW INGREDIENTS!)......You are stuck because now you have to tell the truth that you screwed your client over previously and all those bodybuilders who were buying (YOU GUYS) those supplements were getting about 60% of what the label said and a nice helping of dirt cheap dextrose! NO FREAKING WONDER BRAND XYZ TASTES SO GOOD.....ITS DEXTROSE!!!!!!! Have a couple spoonfulls of table sugar to wash it all down too....that will taste great also!

Sorry about my rant here today. Im just downright disgusted with shysters in the supplement industry who will do anything for a buck.....they dont give a crap who they rip off.

Oh yea, you can probably guess that Doug and I are being asked to "hey thats too expensive, cant you just take 25% of that out and substitute maltodextrin to it so the price is lower?

Oh yea we can but we arent putting that label on there! No we are not, because thats not what is in the jug!

And this is the same stuff that is going on with any big supplement that comes down the pike......greasy greedy shysters jump on it real quick and get a product together quickly to make their fast buck.....and its inert bunk alot of the time, or cut "fraction of what its supposed to be" bunk most of the time.

Whenever i see guys on boards rave about some protein powder they got at an insane price "AND IT TASTES AWESOME".....I bite my lip and click the X up on the right......and think "Great for you guy, you saved 7 bucks on the jug and got yourself off spec lower grade WPC that has been cut with Dextrose so it tastes like chocolate pudding with whip cream in it."
Think thats going to help you put on any muscle mass? Nope but you saved 7 bucks this month.

Again apoligize for the rant but this recession is bringing out the worst of the worst in every industry including the supplement industry.....its truly sickens me.

A few years back.....the chief source of a certain Isolate in the USA told all of us to jump in a lake because he signed a specific deal with Starbucks....and exclusive deal. (which didnt work out for them)
So I had to go and buy that Isolate from Europe from the other top legitimate source out there fo that Isolate. We sent it out to be tested. Flying colors. Well that other Euro top source is also the same source as where Big A gets the same product....so I know how doug and I do business so we were very impressed to find out that Big A also went with the top product on the totem pole. I respect that kind of business sense. You do the right thing and your reputation will take care of itself.
 
Last edited:
We had our DAA go thru 2 independant labs before we released it. Obviously it passed with flying colors or I wouldnt be posting or carrying it. Why am I stating this? Because according to the grapevine, there is alot of bunk DAA being sold out there (some of it the retail company's fault, some of it the retail company's sources fault). I have no idea what company you tested out the DAA with but.....my intuition says you might want to try another source (or maybe it just doesnt work for you... I don't know)

I have never ever ever ever EVER seen more shysters in the Nutritional Supplement Industry than I have seen in this recession. Especially with this whey protein shortage and things like DAA. Im sitting here typing this this morning so freaking disgusted you wouldnt even believe it.

For years my business partner and I have wondered how the hell certain companies have been selling certain products for so low.....we buy huge amounts of those raw ingredients...WE KNOW THE COST. We could not figure it out. So what happened? We found out that a large custom manufacturing operation (with many side companys operating) were making a HUGE amount of products for the retail companys out there you see in the GNC's and vitamin stores.

Im not talking tiddlywinks here guys. Im talking hundred upon hundreds of thousands (millions) of pounds of raw ingredients.

What happened? That parent company (and some of its subsid's) got investigated, shut down in some facets, and its employees imploded (for lack of better words and scattered making new companies).

So now I got all these retail companies wanting me to make their products for them of late. I am so busy its making my head spin. But whats the problem? Some of the very same (head honcho's) who are the mass brokers for these companies are in charge that were previously in charge of accounts for these retail supplement companies (I aint naming names of companys, trust me when i say youve heard of them all)......so what are these guys asking me to do for these numerous random companys they represent for?

They FUCKED THEMSELVES! They were cutting the raw ingredients and the proteins!!!!! They were putting in maltodextrin and other FILLER INGREDIENTS in all these products and then just BALD FACE LYING that what was on the label was TRUE!. So how did they F themselves? You tell me how you tell your company that has been paying 4 dollars a pound (which was bunk cut material filled with dextrose or maltodextrin) that the price is now 6.50 a pound (FROM DOUG AND MY COMPANY WHO SELLS LEGIT RAW INGREDIENTS!)......You are stuck because now you have to tell the truth that you screwed your client over previously and all those bodybuilders who were buying (YOU GUYS) those supplements were getting about 60% of what the label said and a nice helping of dirt cheap dextrose! NO FREAKING WONDER BRAND XYZ TASTES SO GOOD.....ITS DEXTROSE!!!!!!! Have a couple spoonfulls of table sugar to wash it all down too....that will taste great also!

Sorry about my rant here today. Im just downright disgusted with shysters in the supplement industry who will do anything for a buck.....they dont give a crap who they rip off.

Oh yea, you can probably guess that Doug and I are being asked to "hey thats too expensive, cant you just take 25% of that out and substitute maltodextrin to it so the price is lower?

Oh yea we can but we arent putting that label on there! No we are not, because thats not what is in the jug!

And this is the same stuff that is going on with any big supplement that comes down the pike......greasy greedy shysters jump on it real quick and get a product together quickly to make their fast buck.....and its inert bunk alot of the time, or cut "fraction of what its supposed to be" bunk most of the time.

Whenever i see guys on boards rave about some protein powder they got at an insane price "AND IT TASTES AWESOME".....I bite my lip and click the X up on the right......and think "Great for you guy, you saved 7 bucks on the jug and got yourself off spec lower grade WPC that has been cut with Dextrose so it tastes like chocolate pudding with whip cream in it."
Think thats going to help you put on any muscle mass? Nope but you saved 7 bucks this month.

Again apoligize for the rant but this recession is bringing out the worst of the worst in every industry including the supplement industry.....its truly sickens me.

A few years back.....the chief source of a certain Isolate in the USA told all of us to jump in a lake because he signed a specific deal with Starbucks....and exclusive deal. (which didnt work out for them)
So I had to go and buy that Isolate from Europe from the other top legitimate source out there fo that Isolate. We sent it out to be tested. Flying colors. Well that other Euro top source is also the same source as where Big A gets the same product....so I know how doug and I do business so we were very impressed to find out that Big A also went with the top product on the totem pole. I respect that kind of business sense. You do the right thing and your reputation will take care of itself.

Wow. That was a MAJOR! lesson in integrity there......... I am practically speachless and now I realize why I trust Trueprotein.com. My only regret is that I puchased protein localyl for the past few months due to convienience/shipping issues. I now regret that.
Thank you for that post man....that means alot.......how many of us have been ripped off!!??? I can't trust any company OTHER than Trueprotein after that. Thanks for the wake up call brother.
 
WOW !

We had our DAA go thru 2 independant labs before we released it. Obviously it passed with flying colors or I wouldnt be posting or carrying it. Why am I stating this? Because according to the grapevine, there is alot of bunk DAA being sold out there (some of it the retail company's fault, some of it the retail company's sources fault). I have no idea what company you tested out the DAA with but.....my intuition says you might want to try another source (or maybe it just doesnt work for you... I don't know)

I have never ever ever ever EVER seen more shysters in the Nutritional Supplement Industry than I have seen in this recession. Especially with this whey protein shortage and things like DAA. Im sitting here typing this this morning so freaking disgusted you wouldnt even believe it.

For years my business partner and I have wondered how the hell certain companies have been selling certain products for so low.....we buy huge amounts of those raw ingredients...WE KNOW THE COST. We could not figure it out. So what happened? We found out that a large custom manufacturing operation (with many side companys operating) were making a HUGE amount of products for the retail companys out there you see in the GNC's and vitamin stores.

Im not talking tiddlywinks here guys. Im talking hundred upon hundreds of thousands (millions) of pounds of raw ingredients.

What happened? That parent company (and some of its subsid's) got investigated, shut down in some facets, and its employees imploded (for lack of better words and scattered making new companies).

So now I got all these retail companies wanting me to make their products for them of late. I am so busy its making my head spin. But whats the problem? Some of the very same (head honcho's) who are the mass brokers for these companies are in charge that were previously in charge of accounts for these retail supplement companies (I aint naming names of companys, trust me when i say youve heard of them all)......so what are these guys asking me to do for these numerous random companys they represent for?

They FUCKED THEMSELVES! They were cutting the raw ingredients and the proteins!!!!! They were putting in maltodextrin and other FILLER INGREDIENTS in all these products and then just BALD FACE LYING that what was on the label was TRUE!. So how did they F themselves? You tell me how you tell your company that has been paying 4 dollars a pound (which was bunk cut material filled with dextrose or maltodextrin) that the price is now 6.50 a pound (FROM DOUG AND MY COMPANY WHO SELLS LEGIT RAW INGREDIENTS!)......You are stuck because now you have to tell the truth that you screwed your client over previously and all those bodybuilders who were buying (YOU GUYS) those supplements were getting about 60% of what the label said and a nice helping of dirt cheap dextrose! NO FREAKING WONDER BRAND XYZ TASTES SO GOOD.....ITS DEXTROSE!!!!!!! Have a couple spoonfulls of table sugar to wash it all down too....that will taste great also!

Sorry about my rant here today. Im just downright disgusted with shysters in the supplement industry who will do anything for a buck.....they dont give a crap who they rip off.

Oh yea, you can probably guess that Doug and I are being asked to "hey thats too expensive, cant you just take 25% of that out and substitute maltodextrin to it so the price is lower?

Oh yea we can but we arent putting that label on there! No we are not, because thats not what is in the jug!

And this is the same stuff that is going on with any big supplement that comes down the pike......greasy greedy shysters jump on it real quick and get a product together quickly to make their fast buck.....and its inert bunk alot of the time, or cut "fraction of what its supposed to be" bunk most of the time.

Whenever i see guys on boards rave about some protein powder they got at an insane price "AND IT TASTES AWESOME".....I bite my lip and click the X up on the right......and think "Great for you guy, you saved 7 bucks on the jug and got yourself off spec lower grade WPC that has been cut with Dextrose so it tastes like chocolate pudding with whip cream in it."
Think thats going to help you put on any muscle mass? Nope but you saved 7 bucks this month.

Again apoligize for the rant but this recession is bringing out the worst of the worst in every industry including the supplement industry.....its truly sickens me.

A few years back.....the chief source of a certain Isolate in the USA told all of us to jump in a lake because he signed a specific deal with Starbucks....and exclusive deal. (which didnt work out for them)
So I had to go and buy that Isolate from Europe from the other top legitimate source out there fo that Isolate. We sent it out to be tested. Flying colors. Well that other Euro top source is also the same source as where Big A gets the same product....so I know how doug and I do business so we were very impressed to find out that Big A also went with the top product on the totem pole. I respect that kind of business sense. You do the right thing and your reputation will take care of itself.

If I know anything about Dante it is that he is a straight shooter, a man of honesty and integrity so this is not hard at all for me to believe. And it is pretty fuckin sad that there are so many shysters out there.
 
I have but....

Have you had blood work done?

as of yesterday, my test came back at 231 :( Keep in mind I have never used drugs. However, I wasn't getting tested specifically to check this product, so I can't use these results to negate its efficacy. It just so happens that my test is in the shitter and it doesn't look like DAA is helping. Not to say it couldn't/hasn't helped other ppl.
 
It's hard to measure the results in the gym and physique wise with this product, it's a gradual progression, but there's NO DOUBT it's had a positive effect on mood, libido, confidence and on down the line with me. Those positive benefits are worth the price alone.
 
We had our DAA go thru 2 independant labs before we released it. Obviously it passed with flying colors or I wouldnt be posting or carrying it. Why am I stating this? Because according to the grapevine, there is alot of bunk DAA being sold out there (some of it the retail company's fault, some of it the retail company's sources fault). I have no idea what company you tested out the DAA with but.....my intuition says you might want to try another source (or maybe it just doesnt work for you... I don't know)

I have never ever ever ever EVER seen more shysters in the Nutritional Supplement Industry than I have seen in this recession. Especially with this whey protein shortage and things like DAA. Im sitting here typing this this morning so freaking disgusted you wouldnt even believe it.

For years my business partner and I have wondered how the hell certain companies have been selling certain products for so low.....we buy huge amounts of those raw ingredients...WE KNOW THE COST. We could not figure it out. So what happened? We found out that a large custom manufacturing operation (with many side companys operating) were making a HUGE amount of products for the retail companys out there you see in the GNC's and vitamin stores.

Im not talking tiddlywinks here guys. Im talking hundred upon hundreds of thousands (millions) of pounds of raw ingredients.

What happened? That parent company (and some of its subsid's) got investigated, shut down in some facets, and its employees imploded (for lack of better words and scattered making new companies).

So now I got all these retail companies wanting me to make their products for them of late. I am so busy its making my head spin. But whats the problem? Some of the very same (head honcho's) who are the mass brokers for these companies are in charge that were previously in charge of accounts for these retail supplement companies (I aint naming names of companys, trust me when i say youve heard of them all)......so what are these guys asking me to do for these numerous random companys they represent for?

They FUCKED THEMSELVES! They were cutting the raw ingredients and the proteins!!!!! They were putting in maltodextrin and other FILLER INGREDIENTS in all these products and then just BALD FACE LYING that what was on the label was TRUE!. So how did they F themselves? You tell me how you tell your company that has been paying 4 dollars a pound (which was bunk cut material filled with dextrose or maltodextrin) that the price is now 6.50 a pound (FROM DOUG AND MY COMPANY WHO SELLS LEGIT RAW INGREDIENTS!)......You are stuck because now you have to tell the truth that you screwed your client over previously and all those bodybuilders who were buying (YOU GUYS) those supplements were getting about 60% of what the label said and a nice helping of dirt cheap dextrose! NO FREAKING WONDER BRAND XYZ TASTES SO GOOD.....ITS DEXTROSE!!!!!!! Have a couple spoonfulls of table sugar to wash it all down too....that will taste great also!

Sorry about my rant here today. Im just downright disgusted with shysters in the supplement industry who will do anything for a buck.....they dont give a crap who they rip off.

Oh yea, you can probably guess that Doug and I are being asked to "hey thats too expensive, cant you just take 25% of that out and substitute maltodextrin to it so the price is lower?

Oh yea we can but we arent putting that label on there! No we are not, because thats not what is in the jug!

And this is the same stuff that is going on with any big supplement that comes down the pike......greasy greedy shysters jump on it real quick and get a product together quickly to make their fast buck.....and its inert bunk alot of the time, or cut "fraction of what its supposed to be" bunk most of the time.

Whenever i see guys on boards rave about some protein powder they got at an insane price "AND IT TASTES AWESOME".....I bite my lip and click the X up on the right......and think "Great for you guy, you saved 7 bucks on the jug and got yourself off spec lower grade WPC that has been cut with Dextrose so it tastes like chocolate pudding with whip cream in it."
Think thats going to help you put on any muscle mass? Nope but you saved 7 bucks this month.

Again apoligize for the rant but this recession is bringing out the worst of the worst in every industry including the supplement industry.....its truly sickens me.

A few years back.....the chief source of a certain Isolate in the USA told all of us to jump in a lake because he signed a specific deal with Starbucks....and exclusive deal. (which didnt work out for them)
So I had to go and buy that Isolate from Europe from the other top legitimate source out there fo that Isolate. We sent it out to be tested. Flying colors. Well that other Euro top source is also the same source as where Big A gets the same product....so I know how doug and I do business so we were very impressed to find out that Big A also went with the top product on the totem pole. I respect that kind of business sense. You do the right thing and your reputation will take care of itself.

Names man, names.

Muscle Gauge Nutrition for that protein? Their WPI is $18, 25g per but tastes like straight up sugar. Don't got to say yes to this question, or no, but something would be good.

TP also has generally among the best profiles of proteins. You just need to buy in bulk, that's the only negative.
 
It's around 4 grams DAA per day, 4 caps 2 times a day, I take 5 caps or 10 a day.
I figured it was around a 400ng/dl increase added to the TC.
My normal test if I go completely off HRT is rock bottom in the range so if off HRT it will give me around 650-700ng/dl.
Most guys that are natural with low test should see the same results.

Did you get your BW done the same time after your TC shot both times?

I dont even see how your TT has increased on DAA/TC. Your basically stating DAA can increase endogenous testosterone even when using androgens that shutdown the HPTA...

How long have you been on HRT?
 
It's around 4 grams DAA per day, 4 caps 2 times a day, I take 5 caps or 10 a day.
I figured it was around a 400ng/dl increase added to the TC.
My normal test if I go completely off HRT is rock bottom in the range so if off HRT it will give me around 650-700ng/dl.
Most guys that are natural with low test should see the same results.

Did you get your BW done the same time after your TC shot both times?

I dont even see how your TT has increased on DAA/TC. Your basically stating DAA can increase endogenous testosterone even when using androgens that shutdown the HPTA...

How long have you been on HRT?
 
Did you get your BW done the same time after your TC shot both times?


How long have you been on HRT?


Sorry it wasn't clear from my post-I had blood work checked both on and off DAA, I had to come off fro my endo blood work or it would skew it high and he'd lower the dose
HRT
On 100 mg TC a week = ~780ng/dl for the past 2 years when tested
So remember I am on HRT ~100 mg per week of TC which gives me a free testosterone level of 780ng/dl which keeps me and my endo happy.

HRT plus DAA
I had my test levels pulled via Direct labs on my own and ON DAA and the 100 mg TC test level had jumped to 1320 ng/dl

HRT testing 4 weeks of DAA and 100 mg TC for endo follow up
I had my free testosterone checked the second month I was on both the TC and the Super Test booster and it was 1320 ng/dl. I took 4 weeks off prior to HRT testing just to be safe and my free test level was 750ng/dl so I was allowed to stay on the same dose of 100 mg per week of TC.


I dont even see how your TT has increased on DAA/TC. Your basically stating DAA can increase endogenous testosterone even when using androgens that shutdown the HPTA.

It's because it's a low dose of test and easily observable from bloodwork, DAA appears to act in the same manner as Clomid and HCG, in which people use to avoid shutdown during a "real" cycle with higher doses and more compounds.
 
Sorry it wasn't clear from my post-I had blood work checked both on and off DAA, I had to come off fro my endo blood work or it would skew it high and he'd lower the dose
HRT
On 100 mg TC a week = ~780ng/dl for the past 2 years when tested
So remember I am on HRT ~100 mg per week of TC which gives me a free testosterone level of 780ng/dl which keeps me and my endo happy.

HRT plus DAA
I had my test levels pulled via Direct labs on my own and ON DAA and the 100 mg TC test level had jumped to 1320 ng/dl

HRT testing 4 weeks of DAA and 100 mg TC for endo follow up
I had my free testosterone checked the second month I was on both the TC and the Super Test booster and it was 1320 ng/dl. I took 4 weeks off prior to HRT testing just to be safe and my free test level was 750ng/dl so I was allowed to stay on the same dose of 100 mg per week of TC.




It's because it's a low dose of test and easily observable from bloodwork, DAA appears to act in the same manner as Clomid and HCG, in which people use to avoid shutdown during a "real" cycle with higher doses and more compounds.

Those reading are total testosterone (TT), by the way, not free testosterone (FT).

Clomid will not maintain enodgenous hormone output when using inhibitive compounds (AAS). HCG will maintain size and fucntion.

Did you get your BW done the same time after pinning (both tests). This is important as it can vastly change your readings.

For example, getting BW done 2 days after your TC shot will mean higher levels of TT, when compared to getting BW done 7-8 days after your TC shot.

Your on HRT and shutdown, so I have no idea how DAA has made your TT go up. I would have thought it was impossible.

Do you use HCG at all?
 
Those reading are total testosterone (TT), by the way, not free testosterone (FT).

Clomid will not maintain enodgenous hormone output when using inhibitive compounds (AAS). HCG will maintain size and fucntion.

Did you get your BW done the same time after pinning (both tests). This is important as it can vastly change your readings.

For example, getting BW done 2 days after your TC shot will mean higher levels of TT, when compared to getting BW done 7-8 days after your TC shot.

Your on HRT and shutdown, so I have no idea how DAA has made your TT go up. I would have thought it was impossible.

Do you use HCG at all?


You have no idea because you haven't tried it and got bloodwork to back it up. Education and experience.
It's that simple. :naughty:
I have used Clomid in the past on TRT and increased testosterone, as well as HCG blood work to back it up as well. Again education and experience.

Here's another simple fact: try it or don't- I really don't care-I know a ton of guys using it and raving about it like me.


Happy Thanksgiving!
 
I come off a 10 week blast and was cruising on 200mgs EW but my load size dropped to literally nothing and libido was starting to suffer. Instead of just coming off and doing pct I decided to do a little experiment. I decided to run 50mgs clomid ED and 3g DAA ED for 1 month. Sometime within the first week my sex drive went way up and so did my loads. By the end of 2nd week my balls were as big as they've ever been and now its about a month after i quit the clomid and daa and I'm back blasting and everythings still in check down there. Shit is legit
 
Those reading are total testosterone (TT), by the way, not free testosterone (FT).

Clomid will not maintain enodgenous hormone output when using inhibitive compounds (AAS). HCG will maintain size and fucntion.

Did you get your BW done the same time after pinning (both tests). This is important as it can vastly change your readings.

For example, getting BW done 2 days after your TC shot will mean higher levels of TT, when compared to getting BW done 7-8 days after your TC shot.

Your on HRT and shutdown, so I have no idea how DAA has made your TT go up. I would have thought it was impossible.

Do you use HCG at all?

Absolute utter bunk. How does clomid have its reputation in bodybuilding? Because 1000's upon 1000's of bodybuilders have used it during PCT.
Now when do they use it during PCT? The day after their cycle stops! DO YOU THINK ALL ERGO AIDS ARE OUT OF THE BLOODSTREAM THEN?! Not even close! One week later? NOPE! Two weeks later? Totally out of the system? NOPE! Do you see anyone waiting weeks upon weeks to start clomid after their cycle stops? I havent. Is testosterone cyp totally out of your system 3 weeks later, 4 weeks later? Not seeping out of some sterile access, low blood flow area or scar tissue or fat? Clomid works whether you have normal endogenous or low exogenous testosterone in your system

The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate.

Tenover JS, Matsumoto AM, Plymate SR, Bremner WJ.

Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Seattle, Washington.

Serum testosterone (T) levels in men decline with age while serum LH levels, as measured by RIA, increase. To assess if the decline in serum T levels in healthy aging men is paralleled by an age-related decline in the bioavailable non-sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound fraction of T and to determine whether there are age-related changes in LH secretion or LH control of T production, we studied 29 young (aged 22-35 yr) and 26 elderly (aged 65-84 yr) healthy men. All men had single random blood samples drawn, and 14 men in each age group underwent frequent blood sampling for 24 h, both before and after 7 days of clomiphene citrate (CC) administration. Both mean 24-h serum total T levels and non-SHBG-bound T were reduced in elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), while estradiol and SHBG levels were similar in the 2 age groups. Serum FSH determined by RIA and LH by RIA and bioassay were higher in the elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), but the ratios of LH bioactivity to immunoreactivity and the LH pulse frequency and amplitude were similar. After CC administration, mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men increased by 100% and 304%, respectively, while in older men these values increased by only 32% and 8%, respectively. However, CC-stimulated LH pulse characteristics and serum levels of estradiol, SHBG, FSH, and bioactive and immunoreactive LH were similar in the 2 groups. Thus, both at baseline and after CC stimulation, elderly men had significantly lower serum total T and non-SHBG-bound (bioavailable) T levels than did young men, despite similar or increased levels of bioactive LH and similar bioactive to immunoreactive LH ratios and LH pulse characteristics. These results suggest that major age-related changes in the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis occur at the level of the testes and are manifested by decreased responsiveness to bioactive LH. Administration of CC to young and elderly men resulted in similar changes in LH pulse characteristics and LH bioactivity and immunoreactivity, suggesting preserved hypothalamic-pituitary responsiveness in the elderly.

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Look at the bold=normal healthy men with normal testosterone levels. So there isnt a need for an increase in total T and non-SHBG-bound levels but it happens anyway with the administration of clomid. You dont need a total test level of 75 to 180 ng for clomiphene to work....it works regardless....and increased normal testosterone levels above by 100 to 304%

So all these hundreds of 1000's of bodybuilders who have done 750-1500mg a week of testosterone for 12-16 weeks, gotten off and done 2 weeks of clomid....you are telling them that they only felt a placebo effect from clomid? Because we all know as sure as heck that they werent at 400 ng/dl during those 2 weeks.
 
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Dante-You always present facts and have a very direct and methodical way of presenting your info. Which i have never seen wrong.
 
IMO clomid works on or off.
 
Absolute utter bunk. How does clomid have its reputation in bodybuilding? Because 1000's upon 1000's of bodybuilders have used it during PCT.
Now when do they use it during PCT? The day after their cycle stops! DO YOU THINK ALL ERGO AIDS ARE OUT OF THE BLOODSTREAM THEN?! Not even close! One week later? NOPE! Two weeks later? Totally out of the system? NOPE! Do you see anyone waiting weeks upon weeks to start clomid after their cycle stops? I havent. Is testosterone cyp totally out of your system 3 weeks later, 4 weeks later? Not seeping out of some sterile access, low blood flow area or scar tissue or fat? Clomid works whether you have normal endogenous or low exogenous testosterone in your system

The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate.

Tenover JS, Matsumoto AM, Plymate SR, Bremner WJ.

Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Seattle, Washington.

Serum testosterone (T) levels in men decline with age while serum LH levels, as measured by RIA, increase. To assess if the decline in serum T levels in healthy aging men is paralleled by an age-related decline in the bioavailable non-sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound fraction of T and to determine whether there are age-related changes in LH secretion or LH control of T production, we studied 29 young (aged 22-35 yr) and 26 elderly (aged 65-84 yr) healthy men. All men had single random blood samples drawn, and 14 men in each age group underwent frequent blood sampling for 24 h, both before and after 7 days of clomiphene citrate (CC) administration. Both mean 24-h serum total T levels and non-SHBG-bound T were reduced in elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), while estradiol and SHBG levels were similar in the 2 age groups. Serum FSH determined by RIA and LH by RIA and bioassay were higher in the elderly men compared to those in young men (P less than 0.05), but the ratios of LH bioactivity to immunoreactivity and the LH pulse frequency and amplitude were similar. After CC administration, mean serum total T and non-SHBG-bound levels in young men increased by 100% and 304%, respectively, while in older men these values increased by only 32% and 8%, respectively. However, CC-stimulated LH pulse characteristics and serum levels of estradiol, SHBG, FSH, and bioactive and immunoreactive LH were similar in the 2 groups. Thus, both at baseline and after CC stimulation, elderly men had significantly lower serum total T and non-SHBG-bound (bioavailable) T levels than did young men, despite similar or increased levels of bioactive LH and similar bioactive to immunoreactive LH ratios and LH pulse characteristics. These results suggest that major age-related changes in the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis occur at the level of the testes and are manifested by decreased responsiveness to bioactive LH. Administration of CC to young and elderly men resulted in similar changes in LH pulse characteristics and LH bioactivity and immunoreactivity, suggesting preserved hypothalamic-pituitary responsiveness in the elderly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the bold=normal healthy men with normal testosterone levels. So there isnt a need for an increase in total T and non-SHBG-bound levels but it happens anyway with the administration of clomid. You dont need a total test level of 75 to 180 ng for clomiphene to work....it works regardless....and increased normal testosterone levels above by 100 to 304%

So all these hundreds of 1000's of bodybuilders who have done 750-1500mg a week of testosterone for 12-16 weeks, gotten off and done 2 weeks of clomid....you are telling them that they only felt a placebo effect from clomid? Because we all know as sure as heck that they werent at 400 ng/dl during those 2 weeks.

No, there TT is low enough for Clomid to work and raise endogenous testosterone. The ester has cleared or is clearing and the TT is low enough endogenous T can begin to rise. TT is directly related to the dose, peroid on the compound and half-life, is it not?

That study states nothing at all about MAINTAINING endogenous hormone output when shutdown, using Test Enan for example, taking Clomid or any other SERMs.

Thats a different ball game.

Endogenous testosterone will only rise when endogenous testosterone is almost hypogondal (when TT is low).

HCG will maintain and boost endogenous testosterone via directly stimulating the leydig cells even when on exogenous testosterone. There are plenty of studies to back that, not Clomid.

Your bsically stating Clomid can maintain testicular size/function taken "on cycle", just like HCG can? But by its effects at the hypothalmus, not stimulation of the testes (directly)?
 
You have no idea because you haven't tried it and got bloodwork to back it up. Education and experience.
It's that simple. :naughty:
I have used Clomid in the past on TRT and increased testosterone, as well as HCG blood work to back it up as well. Again education and experience.

Here's another simple fact: try it or don't- I really don't care-I know a ton of guys using it and raving about it like me.


Happy Thanksgiving!

So did yo get BW drawn the same time after your TC shot?
 
No, there TT is low enough for Clomid to work and raise endogenous testosterone. The ester has cleared or is clearing and the TT is low enough endogenous T can begin to rise. TT is directly related to the dose, peroid on the compound and half-life, is it not?

That study states nothing at all about MAINTAINING endogenous hormone output when shutdown, using Test Enan for example, taking Clomid or any other SERMs.

Thats a different ball game.

Endogenous testosterone will only rise when endogenous testosterone is almost hypogondal (when TT is low).

HCG will maintain and boost endogenous testosterone via directly stimulating the leydig cells even when on exogenous testosterone. There are plenty of studies to back that, not Clomid.

Your bsically stating Clomid can maintain testicular size/function taken "on cycle", just like HCG can? But by its effects at the hypothalmus, not stimulation of the testes (directly)?

29 men of normal age with normal testosterone levels (not hypogonadal) had their testosterone go up 100 to 304% with clomid usage

Now go have your ng/dl read on testosterone one week after you get off a cycle, think its below 252 ng/dl? NOPE not even close....might even be 3500 ng/dl for alot of guys
Go head and have your ng/dl read on testosterone two weeks after you get off a cyle, think its below 252 ng / dl? NOPE not even close....might be 1000 - 2500 ng / dl for alot of guys
It most likely wont be below 252 ng/dl in the 4th week!

Yet when do 1000's upon 1000's of bodybuilders use clomid? The immediate 2 weeks after they get off cycle...and most bbers use supraphys amounts of AAS.

So much for its because TT is low enough and they must be hypogonadal for clomid to work
 

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