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4 week cycles

I see everyones point of view. Different people like diffeent methods. The more I do the shorter my cycles seeem to be. But I like to mix it up. But I do agree shorter cycles are great. I would personally do 5-6 weeks using short estered injectables (mainly test, mast and tren). Maybe throw in an oral for the first 4 weeks but it all depends upon goals.

Another great approach to me is blast for 3-4 weeks and then taper down for 2 or so weeks.

Although my current cycle is likely to be 8 weeks using test c, deca and tbol (4-5weeks) then another 8 weeks of test e or sust with mast and probably dbol (4 weeks). But after this I am likely to do a few shorter cycles as mentioned above.
 
I know this may be a dumb question but...

Why do so many guys think front loading is a must? Why not just be patient, wait a couple of weeks, and start growing.

To me it seems kind of wreckless to frontload a bunch of drugs when you are planning on being "on" for 12 - 15 weeks anyways.

Thats just me and I definitely am no expert. I do however think safety should also at least be considered. Just seems like a waste to throw all that stuff at your body in the first couple of weeks when you are waiting for the stuff in your system already to start working.
 
I know this may be a dumb question but...

Why do so many guys think front loading is a must? Why not just be patient, wait a couple of weeks, and start growing.

To me it seems kind of wreckless to frontload a bunch of drugs when you are planning on being "on" for 12 - 15 weeks anyways.

Thats just me and I definitely am no expert. I do however think safety should also at least be considered. Just seems like a waste to throw all that stuff at your body in the first couple of weeks when you are waiting for the stuff in your system already to start working.

I would never frontload... so I am with you
 
I promise you fellas ......tenny 's imput is invaluable here as is the same with J.smiles.......tenny has top national level physique and had to earn it .........the thing about him, is has that old school east coast value to him. that makes him a straight shooter with no agendas ......he will tell you what he thinks and pull no punches .[ that is rare and hardly exists in this hobby my friends.......when he speaks ....I take note and always listen]

tenny .....I do think your best is ahead of you......and anything I can do to help ......you got it ......I have had some real good success with guys on the board I believe each would say that they hit there all time best to that point.[for free ..lots of great real trainers here already that I respect......] I am doing a guy here's full off season for at least a yr starting pretty soon using my ideas .....the guys a robot and should do very well ........[ he's been a featured member here] will be fun .....I have only be able to do this with several guys and the changes they all made were quite significant.....so I am around if you need me or just want to trade ideas ......

Also it comes down to training style and compounds .....I like using what the awesome dat from this board and his own great one refers to as toggling........it keeps the body from adapting and sets up the environments for growth .......you match diet and routine to your gear and rest ....then you have something......tenny is a volume guy .......I like volume when clean .....why ....several reasons....its safer ....hits more of the muscle fibers ....increases blood volume ....and easier to train more frequently .....when off ,you want to be slightly to be over trained before going on again ......you basically push hard moving wts and diet forward for 4- 6 wks .....then change diet and training when going off or cruising .......you try and go two steps for forward one step back so to speak continuously.........my take and from what I seen, is that you stay lean , limit sides, put on real muscle , [ not just water like so many guys think is real muscle] it takes structure and panning ahead ........but for you ocd guys ,it is the best method I have seen for real long term progression.....I don't know as much as some .....but I know what I have seen and what makes sense .
 
Front loading .....is smart with short cycles and certainly not needed during longer courses.......lets say you were doing a 6 week cycle ......I like 200 mgs of test enth eod with say eq at 100 eod for the first 3 weeks........by front loading and adding test prop at 100 ed [or test suspension which I loved 15 yrs ago but not sure a good one is around anymore] .....for the first 2 weeks ,and maybe and oral for the first 3 weeks ,you push your hormone levels up quickly and get into that growth zone much quicker .... . before switching to say test prop at 200 eod and tren act at 75 mg eod ....for the last 3 weeks .....my take is lets say you 10 - 12 lbs off that 6 weeks and 6 off it you keep after you are off and change diet and training....and 2-3 is possible show wt ......I am thinking I can get most advanced guys 6- 10 lbs lbs of real show wt between contests [depending on time frame ] for many yrs ........guys doing the old school tend max out their threshold much quick and don't get that steady growth unless they really up their dosages and then the tend to just crash and burn.......
 
ok OP since nobody has asked what were your previous cycles? What cycle are you think of running for 4 wks?
Only 4 wk cycle a good imagine is some Test Prop and Tren acetate, doses would depend on stats and prior cycle useage. Since it is a short cycle you could get away with a little higher dosage assuming you are in good health.
I would consider.
700mg Test Prop EW
500mg Tren aceate EW
 
Ronnieron :: That is the cycle I planned(100prop+ 75trenA ed) but,with adex .25 eod ' and hgc in 3rd wk 500iu x2 ;;I have always left my amounts low;;
 
I think you may be happier with your cycle if run a bit longer, say 6 weeks. An extra 2 weeks should not have a huge effect on regaining natural test, and you may be much happier with the results from the tren if run the extra 2 weeks. What does your pct look like? May also what do run some provion through cycle?
 
Pct is typical;; nolva 40 40 20 20 ;; clomid 100 1st week then what ever the sides of clomid allow
 
4 weeks cycles are pointless in my opinion, any gains made will be lost as most of this weight would be water weight.

haha you have no clue wha your talking about. So if i ran tren and Tbol for 4 weeks i wont be able to gain water free lean mass?..
neither compound aromatizes and even if i threw in some test P or A low dose with aromasin i still would gain...
Man i seen dudes gain LBM on 4 week ph cycles....
 
I know this may be a dumb question but...

Why do so many guys think front loading is a must? Why not just be patient, wait a couple of weeks, and start growing.

To me it seems kind of wreckless to frontload a bunch of drugs when you are planning on being "on" for 12 - 15 weeks anyways.

Thats just me and I definitely am no expert. I do however think safety should also at least be considered. Just seems like a waste to throw all that stuff at your body in the first couple of weeks when you are waiting for the stuff in your system already to start working.

i agree
 
I need some input on short cycles ;; I have done 5 cycles (with 1 fukc up that I wont count;; I have used test c and anavar for 2 cycles (10 and 12 weeks);; and two short cycles test p and tren A ( 4wks) ;; after my long cycles I lost alot of my gains;; I kept all of my gains after my first short cycle and second was very good as well;; untill I got sick and lost all my gains;; What do you guyes think ;; stick with short or long?? Age 48 ;; 14% bf 225 lbs ;;Lifting since forever ;; goals;; to look harder than everbody at the gym btw; Recovery was very fast with 4 wk cycle

I think it depends on the esters. Short acting (acetate, prop) esters combined with d-bol for 4 weeks would work.
 
I like short cycles. I generally stay on 100mg trt a week.
Then periodically do 4-5 weeks cycles. It helps keep sides to a minimum especially when doing orals or things like tren.
 
haha you have no clue wha your talking about. So if i ran tren and Tbol for 4 weeks i wont be able to gain water free lean mass?..
neither compound aromatizes and even if i threw in some test P or A low dose with aromasin i still would gain...
Man i seen dudes gain LBM on 4 week ph cycles....

That is true!!! But damn, my BP and sides were the worst with PHs. They are way harsh on me. Fast gains and quick side effects, lots of water weight/bloat!
 
Front loading .....is smart with short cycles and certainly not needed during longer courses.......lets say you were doing a 6 week cycle ......I like 200 mgs of test enth eod with say eq at 100 eod for the first 3 weeks........by front loading and adding test prop at 100 ed [or test suspension which I loved 15 yrs ago but not sure a good one is around anymore] .....for the first 2 weeks ,and maybe and oral for the first 3 weeks ,you push your hormone levels up quickly and get into that growth zone much quicker .... . before switching to say test prop at 200 eod and tren act at 75 mg eod ....for the last 3 weeks .....my take is lets say you 10 - 12 lbs off that 6 weeks and 6 off it you keep after you are off and change diet and training....and 2-3 is possible show wt ......I am thinking I can get most advanced guys 6- 10 lbs lbs of real show wt between contests [depending on time frame ] for many yrs ........guys doing the old school tend max out their threshold much quick and don't get that steady growth unless they really up their dosages and then the tend to just crash and burn.......

I should have rephrased what I meant with frontloading as I would defo do the above. I think I have used an oral to frontload in nearly all my cycles. And I would defo do test p at the start for the reasons you stated (just like an oral).

Alot of people define frontloading as starting with a much larger amount of hormones. Things like 1000mg for the first few weeks then move down (they might be doing a 500mg cycle). I would never use that method. I prefer to taper up with injectables for the first week or two just to see how I respond in the 1st week.

If I ran a short cycle I would most likely use test p as a base and just taper up in the first week. Something like 50mg, 100mg, 200mg, 200mg (eod).
 
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