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400 pound benchers

Guessing you didn't watch the video? He explains the lats.

I'm not saying I agree with Lats playing a bigger role than pecs (why I said Lilly states that). I agree it's mostly left over from shirted lifters. My point was they are important and people do not appreciate that. I was using Lilly to drive the point home as he has hit 585+ in meets and is in the video.

Funny you mention Kaz as there is a video of him talking about using Biceps and Lats for bench. He basically realised that he could use his lats as a sort of spring board and also a means of biceps/lats as resistance on the way down and a rest (as Lilly shows in the video) at the bottom. It's a seminar video that I can't find at the moment.

I never said lats don't matter--they do, but they act as stabilizers, not prime movers. Lats come after pecs, triceps, and front delts on the priority list for raw benchers.

...and far far as "biceps" go, it's not the biceps so much as it is the brachialis that assists during the bench press, but of course, they play a very minor role (acting as stabilizers) in comparison to the other muscles. Some guys just say "biceps" rather than brachialis.

I was a powerlifter back in my 20's and lifted with several world champion lifters around 26-28 years old. I am VERY familiar with the bench press, different styles, the muscle involved, shirted benching vs. raw benching, different theories, etc.
 
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I think a lot of strength comes more from Ligaments than muscle..
Seen A guy once poppin 315 x reps easy. His arms were like my wrist!
He was from a different ethnic background, real dark in color.

Some of it too comes from what type of muscle fiber predominates in the muscles. Fast twitch or slow. There exists a continuum between the two and where your muscles fall in that wil have a huge impact on strength and or endurance. Fast twitch/white more for power and slow twitch/red more for endurance.
 
Totally agree Mike.

In order for me it would be pecs and triceps.

Also if you wanna bench heavy learn how to pull your shoulder blades back when you barbell press and control your breathing. Get some animal rage focus going on. Find something that really pisses you off and concentrate on it. Start breathing fast. Shorter faster breaths will make your body release epinephrine and so will getting pissed off.
Exactly. Retract your scapula, pull them down towards your hips, plant your feet, and push your body up the bench into position while keeping your shoulder blades retracted and "dug in" to further push your shoulders towards your hips.

You can tighten and engage your Lats by physically trying to bend the bar towards you even though it's obviously not going to bend. But all of that contributes to that "springboard" action if done correctly.

Just learning to do these techniques improved my bench greatly. Only wish I had learned it earlier than later.

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I will say that it is humbling to read about several guys benching 400 while natural at a relatively young age. I guess we are all different. I really dont think a 400 bench with no AS was in the cards for me. My dad is 145 pounds soaking wet at about 5'6...

Anyways....

I will say that your environment (where and with whom you train with in this case) also plays a big role in your "development".

In the last 10 plus years i spent in Mexico working out in "hardcore gyms" (in different parts of the country) I witnessed only 2 guys benching 400 pounds and one of them was an american (and not a resident of mexico)... Very very rarely did I see guys benching three plates and/or squatting with four plates...

Now living in the Caribean's for over a year and working out in the "hardcore" gym of the island... Many muscular black dudes... some of them much larger than I am ... but havent seen anyone benching with 3 plates....
 
I never said lats don't matter--they do, but they act as stabilizers, not prime movers. Lats come after pecs, triceps, and front delts on the priority list for raw benchers.

...and far far as "biceps" go, it's not the biceps so much as it is the brachialis that assists during the bench press, but of course, they play a very minor role (acting as stabilizers) in comparison to the other muscles. Some guys just say "biceps" rather than brachialis.

I was a powerlifter back in my 20's and lifted with several world champion lifters around 26-28 years old. I am VERY familiar with the bench press, different styles, the muscle involved, shirted benching vs. raw benching, different theories, etc.

I'm repeating what Kaz said with regards to Lats and biceps as you used him as an example, so I threw in his opinion on the matter.

Kaz had quite an unorthodox point with "biceps", it was more literally using them as resistance against his own body. He didn't break down if he meant brachialis etc. He sure as hell didn't get into the mechanical function, it was his personal philosophy and style. It doesn't really make much sense out of context. I think it worked for him based on sheer size, I wish I could find the video, would make explaining it far easier.

As for Lats, his point was not using them for their stabilising function, but literally a spring board etc. Similar to Brandon Lilly (although he is heavily influenced by shirted benching). He is making the same point as Kaz about Lats, he literally rests on them. To be honest, Kaz benched over 400 in only 6 months of training, then won WSM in 3 years of training (all according to him)....So he may not be the best to listen to lol.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just trying to clear up what I meant with those examples. I agree with you.
 
I'm repeating what Kaz said with regards to Lats and biceps as you used him as an example, so I threw in his opinion on the matter.

Kaz had quite an unorthodox point with "biceps", it was more literally using them as resistance against his own body.
Yes, its' the same principle as training your biceps before triceps. Having pumped biceps provides a cushion-like effect for the triceps to push off of when the triceps are at full stretch. While we're not talking about having pumped biceps before benching, simply having big biceps/brachialis will provide a cushion-like effect when benching, in which the biceps/brachialis press up against the forearms at the bottom of the movement. This provides a type of "resistance", which technically lightens the load. This is very minor, of course, but the effect is still there.

He didn't break down if he meant brachialis etc. He sure as hell didn't get into the mechanical function, it was his personal philosophy and style. It doesn't really make much sense out of context. I think it worked for him based on sheer size
Correct. You have to be pretty damn big (huge biceps/brachialis) in order for this to provide any meaningful benefit.


, I wish I could find the video, would make explaining it far easier.

As for Lats, his point was not using them for their stabilising function, but literally a spring board etc.
I understand. It's like when the biceps press up against the forearms during the bottom of the bench press. However, the lats still act as stabilizers during the lift.

Similar to Brandon Lilly (although he is heavily influenced by shirted benching). He is making the same point as Kaz about Lats, he literally rests on them. To be honest, Kaz benched over 400 in only 6 months of training, then won WSM in 3 years of training (all according to him)....So he may not be the best to listen to lol.
No, he is correct. He won the WSM at 25 year old and was on track to bench 700 lbs at the upcoming world's when he tore his pec.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just trying to clear up what I meant with those examples. I agree with you.
....
 
My favorite is Ronnies video "the unbelievable vol 2" in 2003 before that years O.

What amazes me is even over 400 lbs his rep fluidity is exactly the same as his warm up of 135. In fact all his sets look exactly the same. At no point does he struggle with the last few or get less than 12. That truly is a video worth getting IMO and people talk about the 800lbs squator the leg press but the bench sequence is just as amazing. 4 sets flat, incline and decline and never does he struggle to get 12 reps. Every set is identical as if it was the same weight.
 
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I want some of you guys to do some bent over rows with very ligh weight and warm up your lats, get a little pump then go bench. That's how late contribute. They give you a spring the negative portion of the rep is much much lighter feeling. That's an old powerlifting trick some of you guys who have done meets know what I'm talking about
 
I was 18 hit 405 for a single on no juice just bulked up from 185 to 240 in a year. Always a natural presser. Squats used to suck ass

I'm currently singling 545 at 275 I'm 27 years old, so if I had any suggestions for you it would be. Be a master of all pressing movements. Get your triceps stong as fuck. Get really strong on skull crushers. Get really strong on back movements. Stronger lats actually do equal strong bench. Have load and de load weeks. Gain weight.

All this is soley on the fact that you want to gain strength on the bench.

As for gear. I would say the ones that will make you gain strength really quick are the wet compounds. Test Deca Anadrol. But you should be able to hit 400 pounds on just test. If not then idk maybe benching isn't your thing.


How much do you weigh?

very impressive!, very powerful. I have a friend that got a 405 for 4 drug free weighing 180, not even a belt on. I just shake my head, some people just have insane genetics, freakish!
 
very impressive!, very powerful. I have a friend that got a 405 for 4 drug free weighing 180, not even a belt on. I just shake my head, some people just have insane genetics, freakish!

Sometimes I feel like I was a good bench presser then guys like your talking about come along and I'm like what the actual fuck lol

I did the 181 class I believe in high school and paused a 365. But to show you how bad my lower body sucked I squatted 405 and deadlifted 455. I was 17 then I graduated and started eating and eating and eating because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I got stronger but it was so sloppy lol
 
Sometimes I feel like I was a good bench presser then guys like your talking about come along and I'm like what the actual fuck lol

I did the 181 class I believe in high school and paused a 365. But to show you how bad my lower body sucked I squatted 405 and deadlifted 455. I was 17 then I graduated and started eating and eating and eating because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I got stronger but it was so sloppy lol
I used to bench the bar sophomore year in high school...[emoji52]

Not even kidding

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Sometimes I feel like I was a good bench presser then guys like your talking about come along and I'm like what the actual fuck lol

I did the 181 class I believe in high school and paused a 365. But to show you how bad my lower body sucked I squatted 405 and deadlifted 455. I was 17 then I graduated and started eating and eating and eating because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I got stronger but it was so sloppy lol

405 is heavy shit, my opinion, its not normal to press that. that same friend after juicing is weighing around 220, gets a 495 for 4. I just don't understand how you guys press this weight, crazy to me. I never benched much but I got a 390 years ago, never tried going crazy with heavy pressing on bench. 4 plates is not light lol. double your weight and I believe your super strong, that's not normal
 
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405 is heavy shit, my opinion, its not normal to press that. that same friend after juicing is weighing around 220, gets a 495 for 4. I just don't understand how you guys press this weight, crazy to me. I never benched much but I got a 390 years ago, never tried going crazy with heavy pressing on bench. 4 plates is not light lol. double your weight and I believe your super strong, that's not normal

Lol I hear ya. Check this fucker out. What you just said is how I feel out guys who squat like this and I don't think he weighs much more than me. My bones would shatter under that shit lol

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsQEr-9JyUs[/ame]
 
Benched over 400 for reps. Squatted over 500. Pulled 7 plates for reps. All when I was drug free for life. Well other then caffeine and ephedra! And did it for over a decade before TRT came into play.
 
Benched over 400 for reps. Squatted over 500. Pulled 7 plates for reps. All when I was drug free for life. Well other then caffeine and ephedra! And did it for over a decade before TRT came into play.
Did your numbers go up? Workouts improve?
Take care.
MS
 
I know I have had sore Lats from benching...Even on the Smith machine were you really don't need Stabilizers!
My Delts always grew better than my chest, Flat benching.
I was doing 365 flat but could military, seated behind the neck 385 lbs!
On 1cc test and a Syntex! I was also 25 yrs old. 235 @ 5%
 
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I want some of you guys to do some bent over rows with very ligh weight and warm up your lats, get a little pump then go bench. That's how late contribute. They give you a spring the negative portion of the rep is much much lighter feeling. That's an old powerlifting trick some of you guys who have done meets know what I'm talking about

My current workout program has me super-setting Bench with Bent Rows. One set of Bench, rest, One set of rows, rest...repeat.

Doing this and learning how to properly setup has been the biggest aide in my benching. I'm benching as much now as I was when I was 20lbs heavier.

Plus properly learning how to retract the scapula will protect your shoulders. Since learning to do this awhile back, I don't have any of the little aches in my front delts that I used to get.
 
My peak for benching maxing was in my late 20's all natural too, could squeeze one rep with 425. I lost interest in "maxing out" after that era as I saw no reason for it other than risking potential injury. I always monitored my progress from that time by my 4 rep results. Especially now, as two years ago I tore a pec and it took 9 months to fully recover and at times I can still feel it. If you've ever torn a pec, you know that feeling and do not want to experience it again. Some never recover from that injury.

Now I top out at around 4-6 reps with 335 and don't really go above that. My max probably would be above 400, but again, at age 50, WTF for? LOL. I'm more about looking good now, than maximum strength gains, although being stronger and better than 99% of other guys my age is still my goal. LOL. It's good feeling to tell some 25 year old punk at the gym, you're twice his age and he knows you're stronger and look better than him. :D
 
Did your numbers go up? Workouts improve?
Take care.
MS

Those are the numbers after a few years. I was moving about 65-70% of that weight after about a year in those lifts. When I was benching at my best I could do 8 work sets a week at the max and make slow gains. A couple sets of forced reps or drop sets for 2 weeks in a row would stall out my progress or even cause me to be weaker from not recovering from the additional stress. I used to carry my own 1.25 LB weights with me as most gyms did not have any. But I quit benching long ago as it wasn't doing much for my chest as my tri's and delts took over.
 
very impressive!, very powerful. I have a friend that got a 405 for 4 drug free weighing 180, not even a belt on. I just shake my head, some people just have insane genetics, freakish!



Genetics are huge role in it. I was pressing 350 @ 170# when I was 17. Later in my power lifting career I had to learn technique speed and put it all together. I went on to win national in 2009. I was ranked 3 rd in the world that year. But I never could have done it without being built together bench.


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