400mgs of PRIMO vs 150 mgs of TREN per week

[thethinker48]

AAS use in a certain subset of population tends to contribute to secondary FSGS. Is it high bp or nephrotoxic effects of certain androgens like tren? Probably both...

I don't know why that it, and I can't seem to find any literature to directly support it aside from case studies. But we have representations of guys like Fakhri Mubarak who had a sudden increase in creatinine over months, and then it was downhill from there (proteinurea, gfr decline, bun rise).

Meaning, his labs for kidneys were coming back relatively normal, but he was still suffering kidney damage until it started showing up on blood work. Is he a carrier of some secondary FSGS allele that contributed to his kidney failure in conjunction with the drugs? He had crazy high bp too; which is evident with mostly all these cases...

Eliminate the BP worries, tren ain't friendly to your kidneys, we see that with worsened labs in vast majority of the guys who run it; like that paper on EQ that talked about glumerosclerosis outside the BP pathway. That's what scares me more about tren (on top of neurotoxic, and cardiac effects ) than anything else.

And then you have concreter flipping cars running tren at 50

P.S- Not all men are created equal

 

[Brickshthouse79]

Terrible advice!

Agreed. Running primo e for a short period is a bad idea. Obvs youd want to stay on it a while for the steady quality gains to accumulate. Tren on the other hand, particularly ace, could be run for a shorter period. I still vote primo, but suggest 14+ weeks.

 

[Flex500]

AAS use in a certain subset of population tends to contribute to secondary FSGS. Is it high bp or nephrotoxic effects of certain androgens like tren? Probably both...

I don't know why that it, and I can't seem to find any literature to directly support it aside from case studies. But we have representations of guys like Fakhri Mubarak who had a sudden increase in creatinine over months, and then it was downhill from there (proteinurea, gfr decline, bun rise).

Meaning, his labs for kidneys were coming back relatively normal, but he was still suffering kidney damage until it started showing up on blood work. Is he a carrier of some secondary FSGS allele that contributed to his kidney failure in conjunction with the drugs? He had crazy high bp too; which is evident with mostly all these cases...

Eliminate the BP worries, tren ain't friendly to your kidneys, we see that with worsened labs in vast majority of the guys who run it; like that paper on EQ that talked about glumerosclerosis outside the BP pathway. That's what scares me more about tren (on top of neurotoxic, and cardiac effects ) than anything else.

And then you have concreter flipping cars running tren at 50

P.S- Not all men are created equal

It would be interesting to see in these folks what it would show if they had tests like Cystatin c or microalbumin urine tests to see if some of those more sensitive early markers showed change before those massive jumps in creatinine and such.

 

[LK3]

I think you should definitely post your bloodwork, and not challenging you by saying that but you have a lot of people who follow you on this board and know you, I think it would be great for informational purposes and to get at least ONE example on Tren if you’re on it and willing to do it.. if it’s not in your plans to be on Tren then don’t get on it for the sake of this but I’d sure love to see it..

And I completely understand what you’re saying, but let’s get something clear here;

I’m not against AAS/Tren, I’m against stupid/irresponsible use/abuse of these things... If you’re a young guy (20’s or 30’s though late 30’s I’d be even more cautious) and SERIOUSLY take care of your health, not just take a few curcumin caps and eat shitty only 2x a week and barely do cardio, but REALLY take care of your health in every aspect and you want to run a blast or do some Tren at responsible doses while taking of and monitoring yourself, then cool... Do it.. But the same way you compare a guy being 260lbs at 5’7 etc don’t you think it’s the same risk example being a guy who’s 50 and running Tren/harsh blasts etc??

Let’s be honest here, we see it WAAAAAYYYYY more often than not guys getting zero bloods, barely doing cardio, not supplementing, justifying Tren blasts year round or at the least running it 2-3x per year, eating like shit, being in their 40’s+ etc etc... And for what? I get it if you’re a competitor (though I think competing is just as dumb but you NEED to be 4% bodyfat etc to win so yea) or you’re an actor or model or something and need to have an edge because a big paycheck is on the line, or even if you’re a single, Brad Pitt looking dude AND just as successful in his 40’s-50’s and need to compete with the young 25 year olds and you have nothing better to do than smash 25 year old ass all day or make shit tons of money, then by all means I guess enjoy your life to the fullest but not a single one of these guys on this board is on that boat and I guarantee OP’s client isn’t on that boat either...

I’m sorry, but maybe it just struck me wrong to read the guy’s age and how minimal a change he desires and Tren is the first thing to mind instead of;

Bro, you want to lose 2-4% bodyfat? Drop some cals and up the cardio... Done.. Literally... Done... Some guys brought up saving money with Tren VS Primo etc.. Well how about saving all of it and doing the above? Now again, if the guy is 100% spot on with his health and lifestyle and can be responsible with it (which lets agree, seeing someone responsible with AAS is rare on here which is part of why I say what I say) and he really wants that extra edge, then I’m with you, it can’t be that bad...

umm dude... why so worked up about all this. lol
100% someone can do coke every fucking day and not be an "addict" use is not always addiction.

100% someone can take some tren and not be an aas "addict" didnt we just have a post on some 75+ year old testing posative for tren metabolites?

i feel like a lota guys on here are starting to sound like born again jesus freaks...

blood work healthy eating and bike helmets are all good ideas.

my reality is full of things that are less then good ideas, as are most peoples, this thread might be an example of something like that, but really in real world and pm terms this really isnt THAT bad.

and even if it was.. who cares?

 

[NEMSZ]

umm dude... why so worked up about all this. lol
100% someone can do coke every fucking day and not be an "addict" use is not always addiction.

100% someone can take some tren and not be an aas "addict" didnt we just have a post on some 75+ year old testing posative for tren metabolites?

i feel like a lota guys on here are starting to sound like born again jesus freaks...

blood work healthy eating and bike helmets are all good ideas.

my reality is full of things that are less then good ideas, as are most peoples, this thread might be an example of something like that, but really in real world and pm terms this really isnt THAT bad.

and even if it was.. who cares?

Usually I agree with you on a lot of things but to say doing coke every day doesn’t make someone an addict? C’mon that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard... If you enjoy doing coke every day, then by all means bro, more power to you. I used to enjoy it too, but I’m not in denial that I wasn’t an addict...

I’m not even going to reply to the rest because if you can justify that and think there’s nothing wrong, then I’m talking to a wall..

 

[straightnasty]

No more Tren for me! I'm 50...why/what do I have to prove?! Not worth the sides in my opinion. TRT (10mg/day Test P) and Primo E (200/wk), that's it or at least that's the plan. No orals. No SARMs. No MK. No slin. I dropped the 2iu GH/day. That may change. I'll still use a little Cialis from time to time
Right now and for the past year I've felt great on 10mg/day. Horny, energetic. Will be adding the Primo soon so I'll feel the difference but again...low doses. Most here would say, why bother? Whatever. I'd like to make the most out of the smallest amount of gear I can. I can always tinker with the meals/nutrition/ex routine. Been on Keto for awhile now and love when the wife slaps me on the ass.

Reading about Matts death reaffirms my decision to focus on health/longevity. We need a 50+ forum here cause I just shake my head reading some of these 1500mg this and that posts.

Do you inject the 10 mg test a day Sub Q ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[animal eater]

After chatting with him, I am leaning in the following direction.

1. Upping his test dose from 175 to 225 and as high as 300 mgs weekly
2. Start with 100 of tren enth per week in divided into two doses with the test and then increase up to 150 mg total tren by the end of cycle which will be 8 weeks tops.

3. Caber on hand if needed.

This way he will likely get the results both in strength and slight body recomp without jumping too far into the deep end. Bloods are already taken pre- cycle and will then be taken mid cycle and say a 6 weeks post cycle.

I'm not sure doing a longer and still moderate test/primo cycle will be that much better for him and or yield better results.

It should be interesting.

 

[Reload]

Do you inject the 10 mg test a day Sub Q ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I prefer shallow IM with an insulin pin. I've had my total test checked while doing both exclusively to see if the #'s differed and it was negligible. Always mid to high 700's. Only difference was sub q often left red welts like a mosquito bite. Especially in/around my abdominal region.

 

[NEMSZ]

After chatting with him, I am leaning in the following direction.

1. Upping his test dose from 175 to 225 and as high as 300 mgs weekly
2. Start with 100 of tren enth per week in divided into two doses with the test and then increase up to 150 mg total tren by the end of cycle which will be 8 weeks tops.

3. Caber on hand if needed.

This way he will likely get the results both in strength and slight body recomp without jumping too far into the deep end. Bloods are already taken pre- cycle and will then be taken mid cycle and say a 6 weeks post cycle.

I'm not sure doing a longer and still moderate test/primo cycle will be that much better for him and or yield better results.

It should be interesting.

See if he’s willing to let you post up bloods (with his info obviously blocked out) but I’d love to see the before, during and after of those doses and I’m sure most guys on here would too..

 

[animal eater]

See if he’s willing to let you post up bloods (with his info obviously blocked out) but I’d love to see the before, during and after of those doses and I’m sure most guys on here would too..

Not a bad idea dude.

 

[LK3]

Usually I agree with you on a lot of things but to say doing coke every day doesn’t make someone an addict? C’mon that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard... If you enjoy doing coke every day, then by all means bro, more power to you. I used to enjoy it too, but I’m not in denial that I wasn’t an addict...

I’m not even going to reply to the rest because if you can justify that and think there’s nothing wrong, then I’m talking to a wall..

you can disagree all you like, unfortunately thats just your less then accurate opinion. cocaine is not addictive technically. it is habbit forming. this is a scientific fact.

this word addiction is often misused.

i am not advocating this, dont misunderstand that, sure i have seen plenty of ppl who would be labeled as "addicts" the reality is they are sick ppl with complex problems.

i had to go back to the dr's of the 1800s to really understand these things, and how and why we see this compound as such a complex issue today when it was not always that way. abuse and use are not the same thing unless you go back more then 100 years you will have no way of knowing or understanding this.

always happy to have an intelegent chat about these things but, dont come with opinions and lack of education at least go read frueds cocain diaries... something to broaden your perspective. the world is not flat my friend.:lightbulb:

 

[LK3]

After chatting with him, I am leaning in the following direction.

1. Upping his test dose from 175 to 225 and as high as 300 mgs weekly
2. Start with 100 of tren enth per week in divided into two doses with the test and then increase up to 150 mg total tren by the end of cycle which will be 8 weeks tops.

3. Caber on hand if needed.

This way he will likely get the results both in strength and slight body recomp without jumping too far into the deep end. Bloods are already taken pre- cycle and will then be taken mid cycle and say a 6 weeks post cycle.

I'm not sure doing a longer and still moderate test/primo cycle will be that much better for him and or yield better results.

It should be interesting.

if you stagger the test with other aas it will provide good results. like up 175-225 then to 300, back to 2-- then add in 100mg tren.

if only doing 2 admins wk ace would be better then e. there is a recent thread where i talk about difference in test ace vs test e.

e has big peak in fir 24 then drops so you get more side effects:lightbulb:

e should be used as a short ester.
these doses are small enough to admin with slin pin at small doses ed or eod. tell dude if gona use aas dont be sucha fucking pussy! lol

 

[NEMSZ]

you can disagree all you like, unfortunately thats just your less then accurate opinion. cocaine is not addictive technically. it is habbit forming. this is a scientific fact.

this word addiction is often misused.

i am not advocating this, dont misunderstand that, sure i have seen plenty of ppl who would be labeled as "addicts" the reality is they are sick ppl with complex problems.

i had to go back to the dr's of the 1800s to really understand these things, and how and why we see this compound as such a complex issue today when it was not always that way. abuse and use are not the same thing unless you go back more then 100 years you will have no way of knowing or understanding this.

always happy to have an intelegent chat about these things but, dont come with opinions and lack of education at least go read frueds cocain diaries... something to broaden your perspective. the world is not flat my friend.:lightbulb:

Bro you sound ridiculous right now... Im very aware of Sigmund Freud and his workings and how he tried to cure his friend Ernst Marxow from morphine with cocaine and the guy ended up dead 7 years later... Yea bro, real wonder drug

You’re comparing knowledge of a drug that was synthesized in the 1800’s to what we know now which is absurd and not only that but the cocaine made in the jungles of Peru, Bolivia etc aren’t the same thing as the medically synthesized cocaine used in medicine... 100% fact...

“Habit” is a synonym for ADDICTION... 100% fact..

I’m also willing to have an intelligent chat, but trying to disguise one thing for another just by changing the words or facts around doesn’t make you right...

So please, enlighten me (and the rest of us) how doctors who had only a percentage of the knowledge we have today were right about cocaine (because it’s soooooo widely used in medicine today ) and how doing the street level cocaine daily is perfectly fine and not an addiction... Because let’s face it, no one is getting medical grade cocaine...

Edit: You’re aware that there’s such a thing called “functioning addict” right? Just because you can do coke or whatever your vice may be and still get stuff done, doesn’t mean you’re not an addict... If you “studied” it so much then please also list the negative psychological effects which are 100% fact that both medical and street cocaine cause as well as the negative physical effects... Don’t just sugar coat and change things around to justify what you want the drug to be...

 

[Swifto]

you can disagree all you like, unfortunately thats just your less then accurate opinion. cocaine is not addictive technically. it is habbit forming. this is a scientific fact.

this word addiction is often misused.

i am not advocating this, dont misunderstand that, sure i have seen plenty of ppl who would be labeled as "addicts" the reality is they are sick ppl with complex problems.

i had to go back to the dr's of the 1800s to really understand these things, and how and why we see this compound as such a complex issue today when it was not always that way. abuse and use are not the same thing unless you go back more then 100 years you will have no way of knowing or understanding this.

always happy to have an intelegent chat about these things but, dont come with opinions and lack of education at least go read frueds cocain diaries... something to broaden your perspective. the world is not flat my friend.:lightbulb:

Coke is addictive. It acts on the modulation of dopamine, glutamate/GABA, noradrenaline and the hypocretin/orexin system.

You might want to read these:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851032/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7829294

 

[PaxNovi 5.0]

After chatting with him, I am leaning in the following direction.

1. Upping his test dose from 175 to 225 and as high as 300 mgs weekly
2. Start with 100 of tren enth per week in divided into two doses with the test and then increase up to 150 mg total tren by the end of cycle which will be 8 weeks tops.

3. Caber on hand if needed.

This way he will likely get the results both in strength and slight body recomp without jumping too far into the deep end. Bloods are already taken pre- cycle and will then be taken mid cycle and say a 6 weeks post cycle.

I'm not sure doing a longer and still moderate test/primo cycle will be that much better for him and or yield better results.

It should be interesting.

Currently running 300mg test, 400mg primo and 200mg mast. This small cycle has been more productive than previous larger blasts. Digestion, appetite, body recomp with zero cardio (only walks with the wife) have all been on point, while maintaining same scale weight. Definitely getting leaner however, and I'm as strong as I've ever been. Even more so than was I was 20 lbs heavier.

 

[animal eater]

if you stagger the test with other aas it will provide good results. like up 175-225 then to 300, back to 2-- then add in 100mg tren.

if only doing 2 admins wk ace would be better then e. there is a recent thread where i talk about difference in test ace vs test e.

e has big peak in fir 24 then drops so you get more side effects:lightbulb:

e should be used as a short ester.
these doses are small enough to admin with slin pin at small doses ed or eod. tell dude if gona use aas dont be sucha fucking pussy! lol

He is already on TRT Dr. prescribed. He just wants to hit the gas a little harder.

 

[animal eater]

Currently running 300mg test, 400mg primo and 200mg mast. This small cycle has been more productive than previous larger blasts. Digestion, appetite, body recomp with zero cardio (only walks with the wife) have all been on point, while maintaining same scale weight. Definitely getting leaner however, and I'm as strong as I've ever been. Even more so than was I was 20 lbs heavier.

Thanks for sharing. It seems this is a common theme that less is more and I really figure it's because (1) there has to be a saturation point, (2) you are sleeping way better so hence a boost in wellbeing and GH and (3) you are globally more healthy. All good things. Keep up the good work.

 

[LK3]

He is already on TRT Dr. prescribed. He just wants to hit the gas a little harder.

yeah dude, cases like this then what you do is go up n down within the ranges of trt. winter or lazy drop that shit as low as you can to stay mid range when you wana blast first up the test gradually until you get to your limit.

for older guy and the trt group i think going too high on test can actually be counter productive in the long run as once you are on trt for a bit ( real trt ) you sort of get right i feel like running a cycle of test high fucks that up a bit much better to top out on a low dose of test 300 or so then add in various anabolics.

the other thing that we have not mentioned on tren is the affinity for the ar. with a low test dose the "strength" of tren in this case may cause the user to feel less then desireable. so if he feel off down the line could be due to this.

i understand the ideas. i do think there are better means to a better end then just one lil cycle is prob the best take away that i can give you and it if this is a client sort of situation you may really show your value as a coach if you can bring these pint accross. the drugs are gona work either way, but there are some small things you can do to really kinda take it to the next level. you need to think more big picture though not jsut the next 8 weeks.

and to the born agains...lol
i made a comment to be a lil silly and have some fun though still pretty accurate. i have no interest in derailing this further or going into a debate with ppl who insist the bible is based on facts. enjoy the koolaide and beware the tren my friends... lol:star-w:rs

 

[LK3]

Coke is addictive. It acts on the modulation of dopamine, glutamate/GABA, noradrenaline and the hypocretin/orexin system.

You might want to read these:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851032/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7829294

its like watching a video of "jesus" turning water into wine! lol
i shouldnt have bothered.... lol
wow...
just, wow....

 

[animal eater]

yeah dude, cases like this then what you do is go up n down within the ranges of trt. winter or lazy drop that shit as low as you can to stay mid range when you wana blast first up the test gradually until you get to your limit.

for older guy and the trt group i think going too high on test can actually be counter productive in the long run as once you are on trt for a bit ( real trt ) you sort of get right i feel like running a cycle of test high fucks that up a bit much better to top out on a low dose of test 300 or so then add in various anabolics.

the other thing that we have not mentioned on tren is the affinity for the ar. with a low test dose the "strength" of tren in this case may cause the user to feel less then desireable. so if he feel off down the line could be due to this.

i understand the ideas. i do think there are better means to a better end then just one lil cycle is prob the best take away that i can give you and it if this is a client sort of situation you may really show your value as a coach if you can bring these pint accross. the drugs are gona work either way, but there are some small things you can do to really kinda take it to the next level. you need to think more big picture though not jsut the next 8 weeks.

and to the born agains...lol
i made a comment to be a lil silly and have some fun though still pretty accurate. i have no interest in derailing this further or going into a debate with ppl who insist the bible is based on facts. enjoy the koolaide and beware the tren my friends... lol:star-w:rs

Nice post fella. He is a long term client and ultra complient so there are no worries. I was never going to have him go silly on the test. His health is of foremost importance both with him and we me. He already looks better than 95% if the population 10 years younger but he wants an additional couple of solid kilos of muscle mass while losing a little bit of winter pudding. I am confident I can get him there without issue.

He is also using my tactics involving fasting and some target timing of carbs so it should be smooth sailing.