45 sets per muscle group to failure each week!?🥺

[FK86]

do any of you READ the studies or hear them described? these trainees are supervised. controlled studied. read the study methods.
they had hype guys pushing them on every set and rep. they didnt just go off by themselves and fuck around. when they say volitional failure they MEAN it. failure on every set. made that way by the trainers pushing them.
just cuz u cant do it doesnt mean no one can do it.

"...And the Oscar goes to..."

 

[M@NU]

do any of you READ the studies or hear them described? these trainees are supervised. controlled studied. read the study methods.
they had hype guys pushing them on every set and rep. they didnt just go off by themselves and fuck around. when they say volitional failure they MEAN it. failure on every set. made that way by the trainers pushing them.
just cuz u cant do it doesnt mean no one can do it.

well, i can make it look like i fail at the 4.th rep of my 120kg deadlift warmup and i bet you would believe it
trust me, if you take "normal gym-goers".. they dont even know what failure is yet they scream and yell while doing 95kg leg press and stop as soon as a slight burning starts to occur and make it look like they have just went to ultra-failure..

 

[Zillagreybeard]

Very interesting that’s for sure.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I'm gonna side with Lyle on this one....

 

[Dave Perez]

There was a 70s and 80s BB named steve michalik that trained like this...his routine was called insanity something,.

 

[FK86]

There was a 70s and 80s BB named steve michalik that trained like this...his routine was called insanity something,.

Intensity or Insanity. I talked about this on the first page of the thread. I will never believe either him or Defendis did 50 sets of barbell curls to true failure or 100 sets of bench presses to true failure. I'll believe they did that many sets, and wasted their time doing so, but it's impossible to sustain everything that would be involved for that kind of effort. The human body does not adapt to everything. Otherwise genetics would be obsolete and we'd all be 300 lb mass monsters putting forklift companies out of business.

 

[buck]

i think you can train 2-3 hours and even go to failure but you have absolutely stay away from CNS draining exercises..
you can do 2-3 hours of delt+arms training doing mainly cable work and maschines.
you can also do 2-3 hours doing chest or back if you do exercises that dont fuck your CNS up (lets say pullovers, low impact maschines or stuff like that)
but you can not do squats, leg presses and absolutely not deadlifts in such a training.
i did deadlifts yesterday. 255kg x 3/2/2 and one backoff 210x6. i was fucking done after. i was completely exhausted. and the training was done in 47 minutes

My typical leg workout was 4 set of 6 for each, squats(365) leg press(9 plates/side), hack squats(5 plates/side), extensions, lying curls, stiff legged, Toe press, seated calf raise, standing calf raise. The number reflect the weight at the end of the first year. My other splits were the same basic compound lifts followed by more isolation exercises. I did lift from age 13-19 but never ate and did full body workouts daily but that is what dumb teens do. Could press 200 pounds over head for reps and manage 900 pounds on the leg press regularly for example so I was not totally new when I started lifting again. Then started lifting again at age 28.

 

[buck]

I believe all the guys when they say how many sets they do. I question their effort and perception, which more and more is revealed to be an insanely wide gap from person to person. The human body eventually wanes. That's why all intensity-based programs are low volume.

Roy Callender was the king of volume. Six hour workouts. Two hours at a pull-up bar. He wasn't doing his sets like JP or Dusty. I don't even need to see it to know that.

Perception is a waste of time. When you start tearing muscles off the bone you know you hit failure. Everyone thinks they train hard. And there is usually always some more that can be done.

 

[FK86]

Perception is a waste of time. When you start tearing muscles off the bone you know you hit failure. Everyone thinks they train hard. And there is usually always some more that can be done.

Perception is a waste of time? It's awareness through the senses. It's involuntary like breathing air or blinking.

4 sets of 6 with the same weight? That very layout automatically proves not all sets were to failure. Every single person on the planet is victim to fatigue. That's why a DC rest-pause set looks like

12 + 5 + 3 = 20

Not

12 + 12 + 12 = 36

 

[buck]

People often tell them selves what they want to hear. I rarely see people pushing themselves. It is easier to say they don't want to over train. Since over training started being a trendy topic 30 years ago people started training easier from what I have seen. And no every set wasn't 6 reps but it was in that range. But please believe as you choose to we all do. And keep lifting

 

[LATS]

How many tmes do we hear even top level pros say they train to failure and only rest 1 minute between sets.. then you watch their videos and see they left 2 or more in the tank and rest about three minutes.. thats their " perception"..
I owned two gyms .. train countless people.. rarely did I have anyone go to actual failure.. they said they did.. but they just gave up.. it got uncomfortable so they stopped.. but put a gun to their head and they woukd have gotten a few more.. so you can yell or scream at someone all ya want but when they wanna fake failure they can fake it.. I saw it all the time..
That being said no one is doing that many sets a bodypart to failure.. the cns strain would be out of this world..

 

[tkav1980]

How many tmes do we hear even top level pros say they train to failure and only rest 1 minute between sets.. then you watch their videos and see they left 2 or more in the tank and rest about three minutes.. thats their " perception"..
I owned two gyms .. train countless people.. rarely did I have anyone go to actual failure.. they said they did.. but they just gave up.. it got uncomfortable so they stopped.. but put a gun to their head and they woukd have gotten a few more.. so you can yell or scream at someone all ya want but when they wanna fake failure they can fake it.. I saw it all the time..
That being said no one is doing that many sets a bodypart to failure.. the cns strain would be out of this world..

Real failure is a whole different ballgame of discomfort. I cant see it being possible to do more than 1 set per exercise to true failure with the same weight.
Phil Hernon got around this by using drops in weight each set and we all know how Dante does it.
That said, with experience, you know where it is for you and get an idea of what going to it feels like and when you're leaving 1 or 2 in the tank.
Even going to failure on 3 or 4 sets, I dont see too many people recovering in less than 4 days. 45 sets and id think that the majority of that is wasted work and recovery would take forever. I dont see how its repeatable within a week.

 

[buck]

What is/or feels like failure on your first day of lifting is different then after a year or 10 years of hard training. It is all about perception which really can't be decided well at all. If a person lifts 5 reps and can't make the 6th one. It doesn't mean that he wont be able to Lift 5 reps on the next set as he had more then 5 in him but less then 6 on the previous one. And in my early days I could recover from failure after benching 150# and doing high set workouts, then I could years later after failing on 400# with far fewer sets involved.

 

[MuayThaiFighter01]

Wouldn't GVT (German Volume Training) be similar? 10x10?
I have done GVT at 70-80% and it was brutally painful. Joints were f'd after that.

 

[lookslikesausage]

Wouldn't GVT (German Volume Training) be similar? 10x10?
I have done GVT at 70-80% and it was brutally painful. Joints were f'd after that.

i concur. GVT is absolutely brutal. i found it hard to continue training this way after a few weeks.

 

[MuayThaiFighter01]

i concur. GVT is absolutely brutal. i found it hard to continue training this way after a few weeks.

It gave me some decent size and strength but also destroyed the joints. Not a good trade.

 

[tornquad201]

How many tmes do we hear even top level pros say they train to failure and only rest 1 minute between sets.. then you watch their videos and see they left 2 or more in the tank and rest about three minutes.. thats their " perception"..
I owned two gyms .. train countless people.. rarely did I have anyone go to actual failure.. they said they did.. but they just gave up.. it got uncomfortable so they stopped.. but put a gun to their head and they woukd have gotten a few more.. so you can yell or scream at someone all ya want but when they wanna fake failure they can fake it.. I saw it all the time..
That being said no one is doing that many sets a bodypart to failure.. the cns strain would be out of this world..

Having been around three that era you don’t believe John D did 40-60 sets per body part at 60 he still claims he does .

 

[pickapeck]

Soon Australia will have lots of people in prison camps for experiments like this. We should know for sure soon how this works, where the limit is and when, on average, people die.

 

[pickapeck]

Having been around three that era you don’t believe John D did 40-60 sets per body part at 60 he still claims he does .

If you're talking about John Defendis then Bob Paris book Gorilla Suite matches the idea that DEfendis trained ridiculous high volume and intensity.

 

[LATS]

Having been around three that era you don’t believe John D did 40-60 sets per body part at 60 he still claims he does .

Do I believe he did 40 sets a bodypart ? Yes.. do I believe he did them all to failure ?? Absolutely not