6 weeks into my lean bulk...

[nothuman]

I like it. Unconventional. If it was anyone other than Shelby, people would be losing their shit right now. It's all individual and people just refuse to think that sometimes.

 

[Google&Pubmed]

I'm curious what's your pct look like? Going to start my first cycle soon and that seems like a safe measure to take. Thanks.

Sent from Men's Correctional Facility.

I have to go find the email again but it is the same thing dave does I believe. Starts with doing your last shot, waiting a few days, start with HCG, and then clomid. I have 2 years or so worth of email and I really need to go through them and note everything. He has taught me a lot but there is a lot that I've forgotten as you can tell.

also from what i've read of shelby's, his formulas for calculating macros are based on LBM (which most people forget to do). so if his is sitting around 17% BF he probably does not NEED 3K calories to gain.

Fun fact (because I had recently asked him about this) he used the formula to make it simple for the article but when he works with you he doesn't follow any formulas. I'll explain below how we got to 60g of carbs.

I like it. Unconventional. If it was anyone other than Shelby, people would be losing their shit right now. It's all individual and people just refuse to think that sometimes.

EXACTLY! That is the reason I made sure to say his name in the initial post or I would have been torn a new one and would have lost the control of the thread.


So here is how we got to 60g of carbs
I had a year of eating shit and not working out and I had a very bad injury. I graduated and got back into the gym and since I had lost a lot of size we started with less protein this time. We went from 45g to 40g but kept 10g of fat and 20g (x5, so 100g total) of carbs (no carbs in my last meal though, I had 6 meals a day).

Slowly we got to zero carbs and sometimes we had re-feeds and/or cheat meals (cheat meals were rare until the end). At the end I had cheat meals once a week and I most admit I started going ape shit at the end of the one year. So I had lost A LOT of fucking fat, A FUCK TON! and decided that I needed to lean bulk and get some size back and then go back to cutting. So he SLOWLY started putting carbs back into my diet. We got up to 150g of carbs and then I had a surgery and was out for 5 weeks because of the internal bleeding. When I got back we re-started the same diet except on cycle but I was gaining too much fat. So we cut it down to 90 and then 60g of carbs and I have been still gaining weight, size, and strength. Once my weight gain halts and I'm not putting any more size he'll bump it up.

We also played with the timing of the carbs and I gain less fat if I split my carbs up instead of doing all of it pre and post workout. The only reason we are doing that right now it's because it's only 60g. But at 150g we did pre and post and fat gain was too much so we did pre, post, and post-post workout and I wasn't gaining as much fat anymore.

 

[p-lethal]

I have to go find the email again but it is the same thing dave does I believe. Starts with doing your last shot, waiting a few days, start with HCG, and then clomid. I have 2 years or so worth of email and I really need to go through them and note everything. He has taught me a lot but there is a lot that I've forgotten as you can tell.



Fun fact (because I had recently asked him about this) he used the formula to make it simple for the article but when he works with you he doesn't follow any formulas. I'll explain below how we got to 60g of carbs.



EXACTLY! That is the reason I made sure to say his name in the initial post or I would have been torn a new one and would have lost the control of the thread.


So here is how we got to 60g of carbs
I had a year of eating shit and not working out and I had a very bad injury. I graduated and got back into the gym and since I had lost a lot of size we started with less protein this time. We went from 45g to 40g but kept 10g of fat and 20g (x5, so 100g total) of carbs (no carbs in my last meal though, I had 6 meals a day).

Slowly we got to zero carbs and sometimes we had re-feeds and/or cheat meals (cheat meals were rare until the end). At the end I had cheat meals once a week and I most admit I started going ape shit at the end of the one year. So I had lost A LOT of fucking fat, A FUCK TON! and decided that I needed to lean bulk and get some size back and then go back to cutting. So he SLOWLY started putting carbs back into my diet. We got up to 150g of carbs and then I had a surgery and was out for 5 weeks because of the internal bleeding. When I got back we re-started the same diet except on cycle but I was gaining too much fat. So we cut it down to 90 and then 60g of carbs and I have been still gaining weight, size, and strength. Once my weight gain halts and I'm not putting any more size he'll bump it up.

We also played with the timing of the carbs and I gain less fat if I split my carbs up instead of doing all of it pre and post workout. The only reason we are doing that right now it's because it's only 60g. But at 150g we did pre and post and fat gain was too much so we did pre, post, and post-post workout and I wasn't gaining as much fat anymore.

thank you for sharing all this it truly helps

 

[Deleted member 121863]

so you have gained 21lbs of muscle... well "a little fat", maybe water retention, so 15lbs muscle in 6 weeks?

 

[Crom]

So that's:

Protein: 45g x 6 = 270gr x 4 = 1080 kcal
Fat: 60g x 9 = 540 kcal
Carbs: 60gr x 4 = 240 kcal

Total: 1860kcal pr day

Wow...well done to be able to handle that low calories and still gain. I would be flat, weak, starving and pissed at that low calories.

Just goes to show we are all different.

 

[Google&Pubmed]

thank you for sharing all this it truly helps

No problem bud and if you have any questions please feel free to ask. The biggest thing I can tell people is that listen to shelby's podcast because he is honest about everything. When he says he doesn't use a lot of GH, he means it. He said on the podcast that he doesn't use slin and he doesn't. I actually wanted to use slin under him but he said that I would gain some fat and he wants to max out with the basics first...I actually really pushed to use the GH. Originally was deca and test only.

so you have gained 21lbs of muscle... well "a little fat", maybe water retention, so 15lbs muscle in 6 weeks?

Yup! I know I hold water on test and GH but I can see my abs, chest separation, and tear drops in my legs. I'm not dry or tan but since I'm lasering my hair due to a skin condition I can't tan for a while.

Also working out on low carbs is not that bad. You get use to it and I have no craving for cakes, chocolate, or anything like that.

P.S. If you guys need a thread about hair laser removal I'll be happy to do that also.

 

[Google&Pubmed]

So that's:

Protein: 45g x 6 = 270gr x 4 = 1080 kcal
Fat: 60g x 9 = 540 kcal
Carbs: 60gr x 4 = 240 kcal

Total: 1860kcal pr day

Wow...well done to be able to handle that low calories and still gain. I would be flat, weak, starving and pissed at that low calories.

Just goes to show we are all different.

After a year of keto I just kind of got use to it. I can still put down 5lbs of steak like nothing though. I'm just use to it. In past I would maintain on 2200 calories.

I'm embarrassed of this cycle that I did but fuck it let me share this: I did one dumb cycle with shit ton of clean calories, 2 oils, superdrol for 3 weeks, then DMZ, last 3 weeks on superdrol again, and boat load of peptides. Felt like shit, looked like shit, and my size gains were 30lbs or so in 12 weeks. I got strong as fuck but I also got injured which caused the one year break.

I studied everything I could for 6 months, did the dosages people would recommend (and they just kept going higher) and that was my result. Yet I'm eating more than half the calories, my dosages are way lower, and making better gains.

 

[THASHIZ]

Interesting stuff here...I like to keep my carbs low no matter what. The most carbs would take in consistenty would be around 2-300....normally under 100 if any at all.

 

[seven7seven]

Interesting. Are you naturally a endomorph? Seems like that sort of body type can grow at a pretty decent clip on low carbs provided everything else is correct.

 

[Elvia1023]

Personally I don't think 12 week pct's are needed at all. But if you are only doing 1 cycle per year I can see why they would be useful. Obviously you want to come off as smoothly as possible so sometimes that requires a long taper down. But you are not really off if you use what most use for pct. I am curious how it looks though. Obviously a taper down and I imagine an AI in the first half. But do you run a SERM for 12 weeks? Do you have the standard things in there or perhaps any peptides?

 

[jplahm]

I dont mind low carbs or keto at all,actually like it!i did DC and keto and loved it!
Does Shelby cover your training?

 

[Google&Pubmed]

Interesting. Are you naturally a endomorph? Seems like that sort of body type can grow at a pretty decent clip on low carbs provided everything else is correct.

I believe I am an endomorph.

Personally I don't think 12 week pct's are needed at all. But if you are only doing 1 cycle per year I can see why they would be useful. Obviously you want to come off as smoothly as possible so sometimes that requires a long taper down. But you are not really off if you use what most use for pct. I am curious how it looks though. Obviously a taper down and I imagine an AI in the first half. But do you run a SERM for 12 weeks? Do you have the standard things in there or perhaps any peptides?

I posted my last PCT below. He covers all the whys in his podcast with a guest and trust me I'd love to make them shorter and run more cycles often but then I take a step back and look him, then I look at myself, then I look at his clients, then I look at myself, and then I'll do whatever he tells me because I can clearly see that he knows way more than I'll ever will.

PCT:
250mg Testosterone per week for 1 weeks......then 125mg testosterone per week for 1 week....then OFF

Week 4-5:
HCG: 2000IU every 3rd day for a total of 5 shots (2 weeks)

Week 6-8:
Clomid: 50mg 2x per day for 3 weeks

Week 9-12:
OFF (you can stay on GH, 2IU per day) if you want

I dont mind low carbs or keto at all,actually like it!i did DC and keto and loved it!
Does Shelby cover your training?

Yes he does and if I could get shelby to even do my taxes I would. But on a serious note, his workouts are not easy. Like right now you'll go H.A.M. on lying leg curls, then squats, then you have leg press doing 40reps, 30reps, 20reps, and then 10 reps, and after that I think I got 2 or 3 more exercise and it doesn't even include calves. Then there is a "mild leg day" a few days later.
But I never get bored like I use to. We try new stuff, you hit different muscles, and make steady gains all the time.

 

[Elvia1023]

I believe I am an endomorph.



I posted my last PCT below. He covers all the whys in his podcast with a guest and trust me I'd love to make them shorter and run more cycles often but then I take a step back and look him, then I look at myself, then I look at his clients, then I look at myself, and then I'll do whatever he tells me because I can clearly see that he knows way more than I'll ever will.

PCT:
250mg Testosterone per week for 1 weeks......then 125mg testosterone per week for 1 week....then OFF

Week 4-5:
HCG: 2000IU every 3rd day for a total of 5 shots (2 weeks)

Week 6-8:
Clomid: 50mg 2x per day for 3 weeks

Week 9-12:
OFF (you can stay on GH, 2IU per day) if you want

That explains things. That's not what I would call a 12 week pct. Sure it is listed as 12 weeks but that to me is a 5 week pct. Tapering down the test dose is always good. That's a HCG and clomid pct. Do you not use an AI at the beginning of this pct?

 

[nothuman]

After a year of keto I just kind of got use to it. I can still put down 5lbs of steak like nothing though. I'm just use to it. In past I would maintain on 2200 calories.

I'm embarrassed of this cycle that I did but fuck it let me share this: I did one dumb cycle with shit ton of clean calories, 2 oils, superdrol for 3 weeks, then DMZ, last 3 weeks on superdrol again, and boat load of peptides. Felt like shit, looked like shit, and my size gains were 30lbs or so in 12 weeks. I got strong as fuck but I also got injured which caused the one year break.

I studied everything I could for 6 months, did the dosages people would recommend (and they just kept going higher) and that was my result. Yet I'm eating more than half the calories, my dosages are way lower, and making better gains.

Muscle memory? You said it yourself, you got injured. That's the only logical explanation for current results.

 

[jplahm]

Very informative thread thanks Google...Shelby has gotten so good at both the training and nutrition...

 

[dougisbig]

I believe I am an endomorph.



I posted my last PCT below. He covers all the whys in his podcast with a guest and trust me I'd love to make them shorter and run more cycles often but then I take a step back and look him, then I look at myself, then I look at his clients, then I look at myself, and then I'll do whatever he tells me because I can clearly see that he knows way more than I'll ever will.

PCT:
250mg Testosterone per week for 1 weeks......then 125mg testosterone per week for 1 week....then OFF

Week 4-5:
HCG: 2000IU every 3rd day for a total of 5 shots (2 weeks)

Week 6-8:
Clomid: 50mg 2x per day for 3 weeks

Week 9-12:
OFF (you can stay on GH, 2IU per day) if you want



Yes he does and if I could get shelby to even do my taxes I would. But on a serious note, his workouts are not easy. Like right now you'll go H.A.M. on lying leg curls, then squats, then you have leg press doing 40reps, 30reps, 20reps, and then 10 reps, and after that I think I got 2 or 3 more exercise and it doesn't even include calves. Then there is a "mild leg day" a few days later.
But I never get bored like I use to. We try new stuff, you hit different muscles, and make steady gains all the time.

What were your test levels at the end of this PCT?

 

[Google&Pubmed]

That explains things. That's not what I would call a 12 week pct. Sure it is listed as 12 weeks but that to me is a 5 week pct. Tapering down the test dose is always good. That's a HCG and clomid pct. Do you not use an AI at the beginning of this pct?

No I don't. That is literally my entire PCT.

Muscle memory? You said it yourself, you got injured. That's the only logical explanation for current results.

Could be but I was that big for a very short period of time and I think I'm bigger than what I was (except my calves, they use to be close to 18" but idk wtf is going on right now that I can't get them that big again).

I just want to hit 18" arms without getting injured again. I should have been at 18" for a good bit now. Right now I'm either at 17.5" or close to it. Too lazy to get up and measure right now lol

What were your test levels at the end of this PCT?

I actually don't know. I didn't get it tested but once I was use DAA with an AI and my test level came back 1200...I think I respond well to products.

 

[p-lethal]

what's your height / weight?

 

[Swifto]

That explains things. That's not what I would call a 12 week pct. Sure it is listed as 12 weeks but that to me is a 5 week pct. Tapering down the test dose is always good. That's a HCG and clomid pct. Do you not use an AI at the beginning of this pct?

Exactly.

3 weeks of Clomid isn't going to do much. Yeah, it will push up LH, but thats not long enough SERM treatment post cycle or ER antagonism at the HP to really have things covered IMO.

Most clincal data on SERM treatments and PCTs, even for Anabolic Steroids Induced Hypogonadism dont suggest only 3 weeks of SERMs or SERM (singular) in this case.

HCG should be used when on cycle to maintain testicular dysfunction, does your cycle include HCG?

 

[Elvia1023]

Exactly.

3 weeks of Clomid isn't going to do much. Yeah, it will push up LH, but thats not long enough SERM treatment post cycle or ER antagonism at the HP to really have things covered IMO.

Most clincal data on SERM treatments and PCTs, even for Anabolic Steroids Induced Hypogonadism dont suggest only 3 weeks of SERMs or SERM (singular) in this case.

HCG should be used when on cycle to maintain testicular dysfunction, does your cycle include HCG?

I agree. I didn't want to seem rude but to me that isn't a great pct. It's also a waste of weeks in many ways. I think aromasin can be great at the beginning of a pct especially if you are gonna be using HCG (estrogen). Then the clomid only is not enough especially after 2000IU HCG every 3 days. Estrogen could be an issue for some after a pct like that. I think a standard pct (you see written on the forums everyday) after using HCG during your cycle would be better than the one listed above.