6 weeks into trt - lower testosterone then pre trt.

[2016aldoraine]

For years my resister one was consistently in the 400 range. Suffering from ED, Anxiety, sleep troubles, achy joints, brain fog, low libido... Etc.

I did everything I could to get my levels naturally as high as I could. I'm not going to go through everything again because I've already gone through many times. I personally know I had done everything I can to raise my levels on my own. Being sick of feeling that way, I decided to see my antiaging Doctor Who is more than willing to fill my testosterone prescription.

So late Mid December 2015 I began applying a compounded testosterone cream of the strength of 150 mg/mL. Within a week my sex drive was through the roof! My wood was not 100% better but a huge improvement. I was waking up with morning erections and could perform sexually at the drop of a hat.

2 - 3 weeeks after I started applying the cream, I felt like I was 20 years old. My workout felt great, I felt extremely happy on a day-to-day basis and again my sex drive was through the roof! My sex drive was to the point where it was actually distracting. I'd sit at my desk at work and all I can think about is sex and I would get random erections all day. I'd easily have sex and masterbate 4 times a day.

Now mind you I didn't work very much in the month of December so I was able to get tons of sleep, and I have little stress.

So January is back to work full-time. And I'm very interested to see how my performance is going to be at work. First week and a half was just as I mentioned above. But then things quickly started to go south.

First thing I noticed, I was having serious sleep troubles again. Laying in bed staring at the ceiling till 5 in the morning. Then I noticed I had become a bit emotional. And my sex drive was ok but my EQ was diminishing. Chalked it up to you I'm just tired from a busy days at work.

My six weeks from commencing my TRT and I go for my blood test. My instructions were to get my blood test nine hours after applying my testosterone cream. Due to work, I was forced to wait 11.5 hours.

Here is results.

Pre TRT:

Total testosterone = 440 ng/dl
Free testosterone = 400 p/moL

Post TRT:

Total testosterone = 317 ng/dl
Free testosterone = 229 p/moL

WTF???

So the doctors going to raise the strength of my testosterone cream to 200 mg/mL.

I was wondering what people's opinion might be on adding HCG to the mix. I figured I was feeling really good when I was getting the extra testosterone from the cream along with my natural still being produced. Theoretically, will the HCG assist my body in making natural testosterone and then therefore in a sense topping up with the compounded cream?

 

[wargam19700]

I tried T -gel and it wasn't nearly as effective for me as injections. Talk to your Doc about T injections.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

T-gel sucks dude.

The average PM member will tell u to talk to your doctor ASAP and get to injections.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheOutlier]

When used as a component, or the sole component within a TRT regimem, HCG can contribute to increased Testosterone production, there is no theory involved. In most cases when HCG is the sole unit utilized to achieve a therapeutic testosterone level the results are subpar. I am basing this statement off of professional experience, personal obervations, lab work, and anecdotal response from working one on one with patients in an age bracket of 30-65.

HCG mimics the role of luteinizing hormone, also known as "LH" once administered. LH stimulates the testes in males and ovaries in women to synthesize and secrete sex hormones or androgens. Therefore in males increasing intra testicular testosterone.

HCG is commonly used in conjunction with trstosterone by males who are prescribed TRT to help maintain testicular function and prevent atrophy (e.g. ejaculate volume, sperm production, and testicular size). Infertility issues can also be addressed with the inclusion of HCG, however, if sperm development, not only production is an issue, humam menopausal gonadotropin "HMG" will also be implemented.

You mention that you were previously applying your compounded testosterone cream to compliment your naturals levels still being produced. Chances are, once you began applying your cream you began to negate the consideration of your natural feedback and production of testosterone. The suppression of your natural trstosterone and lack of absorbance from the testosterone creamay have contributed to your results. The creams and gels, whether it be Androgel, Fortesta, compounded, or any of the others tend to show the most inconsistencies. Many variables can interfere with the absorbance rate.

You should also consider your steroid hormone binding globulin "SHBG" value. If this is high, your free and available testosterone will remain low.

Asking your physician to include HCG is a viable option but consider others beforehand. Look into alternative routes of therapy. Administration via intramuscular injection does show more stable testosterone levels and a shorter period of time before therpeutic levels are achieved. You also completely reduce the need to worry about daily application as most prescribed intramuscular TRT regimens require only one injection per week.

Additionally, consider your estadiol (E2) level and insure up to date thyroid labs. Correlations can be made if values are out of range. If fatigue and joint pain has progressed, potentially looking into adrenal function is a consideration but no reason to begin a million dollar work-up right off the bat.

Very, very, brief list of OTC supplementation that can reduce SHBG or improve overall health includes Zinc (50 mg), be sure to supplement with Copper (2-3 mg) as Zinc and Copper are antagonist. Vitamin D3 (1,000 IU per every 30 lbs of LBM/body weight), Magnesium (400 mg - 800 mg). Mineral supplements should be a chelated form or other with high bioavailability.

 

[2016aldoraine]

When used as a component, or the sole component within a TRT regimem, HCG can contribute to increased Testosterone production, there is no theory involved. In most cases when HCG is the sole unit utilized to achieve a therapeutic testosterone level the results are subpar. I am basing this statement off of professional experience, personal obervations, lab work, and anecdotal response from working one on one with patients in an age bracket of 30-65.



HCG mimics the role of luteinizing hormone, also known as "LH" once administered. LH stimulates the testes in males and ovaries in women to synthesize and secrete sex hormones or androgens. Therefore in males increasing intra testicular testosterone.



HCG is commonly used in conjunction with trstosterone by males who are prescribed TRT to help maintain testicular function and prevent atrophy (e.g. ejaculate volume, sperm production, and testicular size). Infertility issues can also be addressed with the inclusion of HCG, however, if sperm development, not only production is an issue, humam menopausal gonadotropin "HMG" will also be implemented.



You mention that you were previously applying your compounded testosterone cream to compliment your naturals levels still being produced. Chances are, once you began applying your cream you began to negate the consideration of your natural feedback and production of testosterone. The suppression of your natural trstosterone and lack of absorbance from the testosterone creamay have contributed to your results. The creams and gels, whether it be Androgel, Fortesta, compounded, or any of the others tend to show the most inconsistencies. Many variables can interfere with the absorbance rate.



You should also consider your steroid hormone binding globulin "SHBG" value. If this is high, your free and available testosterone will remain low.



Asking your physician to include HCG is a viable option but consider others beforehand. Look into alternative routes of therapy. Administration via intramuscular injection does show more stable testosterone levels and a shorter period of time before therpeutic levels are achieved. You also completely reduce the need to worry about daily application as most prescribed intramuscular TRT regimens require only one injection per week.



Additionally, consider your estadiol (E2) level and insure up to date thyroid labs. Correlations can be made if values are out of range. If fatigue and joint pain has progressed, potentially looking into adrenal function is a consideration but no reason to begin a million dollar work-up right off the bat.



Very, very, brief list of OTC supplementation that can reduce SHBG or improve overall health includes Zinc (50 mg), be sure to supplement with Copper (2-3 mg) as Zinc and Copper are antagonist. Vitamin D3 (1,000 IU per every 30 lbs of LBM/body weight), Magnesium (400 mg - 800 mg). Mineral supplements should be a chelated form or other with high bioavailability.

Great response.... Thank you! I'm definitely getting the hcg prescribed next appointment. I'll give that a go with my compounded cream and if that doesn't do it for me definitely moving on to injections. I'll also definitely get my e2 pulled in my next blood draw.

 

[buck]

15 years ago when I started on TRT with Androgel my T levels went up. But then a couple months later they were lower, about half way inbetween my pre levels and the peak of where they were a month after starting replacement. Ifigure that my body was down regulating to make up for the extra it was sensing was being put into the system. I switched over to injections, but the gel is very effective for many people. Probably not for people that want to be BB'ers that want to be at the top end all the time.

 

[GottaGain]

What is the compounded gel composed of? If it's similar to androgel (which is pretty much just test base and hand sanitizer) then you could try applying some dmso or phlojel ultra to the application site to help increase absorption. It's also important to note that the gel will be absorbed better when the concentration is lower. You mentioned yours is 150mg/ml and your doc is recommending going to 200mg/ml, but it would very likely absorb better using a concentration of 50-100mg/ml and simply apply more of it to get your desired dose. So applying 4ml of 50mg/ml would work better than applying 1ml of 200mg/ml.

 

[2016aldoraine]

15 years ago when I started on TRT with Androgel my T levels went up. But then a couple months later they were lower, about half way inbetween my pre levels and the peak of where they were a month after starting replacement. Ifigure that my body was down regulating to make up for the extra it was sensing was being put into the system. I switched over to injections, but the gel is very effective for many people. Probably not for people that want to be BB'ers that want to be at the top end all the time.

Since I normally sit in the 400 range for total testosterone, I would like to get it up to at least 750–800 and see how I feel. Because if I don't feel that much better, I don't see the point of staying on it. I'd like to get it that high with the cream but I have no issues with switching over to objections if it doesn't work. I'm hoping adding the hCG will bring it up a notch and get me to where I want to be.

 

[pumpaddict]

ditch the gel. Malabsorption and unreliable absorption rates are too variable. Switch the IM injections and you will be golden. Also, watch estrogen. When I first started TRT I felt amazing for a few weeks until E started creeping up. Started aromasin and have been great ever since.

 

[raw33man]

What were/are your E2 numbers ?

Maybe your E2 is high, which tGels do that.... And when your E2 is high, your testosterone becomes useless, low.

The reason why I say that is because you said for 2 - 3 weeks you felt great. that means your Tgel was working... This is common for TRT patients. They feel great for the first 2 - 3 weeks but then BAM everything goes down to shit, and in many cases it's because of E2

And if your doctor didn't test for E2, immidietly drop his ass and tell him he needs to lose his license

 

[2016aldoraine]

Haven't pulled my e2 since I started. I will have it checked for next dr. Appointment.

 

[buck]

Since I normally sit in the 400 range for total testosterone, I would like to get it up to at least 750–800 and see how I feel. Because if I don't feel that much better, I don't see the point of staying on it. I'd like to get it that high with the cream but I have no issues with switching over to objections if it doesn't work. I'm hoping adding the hCG will bring it up a notch and get me to where I want to be.

One dose of gel added 200-250 points to my score then dropped off after a couple months. I was in the mid 300 range before TRT. To get to the upper part of the range I would have had to use quite a bit of gel. Injections get me there much better especially if split up into 2-3 shots a week. E2 is important to check although mine is usually fairly low no matter what I do.

 

[hohojijo]

i still have 19 bottles of andrgel....

i let my levels drop and told the dr the gel was not for me and he gave me inj

 

[Deleted member 121863]

are you getting it, injections are the way to go. Gel is for 80 year old me that don`t have enough tissue for an injection (picture Mr Burns from the simpsons)

 

[wargam19700]

The gel has a very low absorption rate as well. Injections are nice when you want to dose a little heavy.

 

[2016aldoraine]

So I've had my cream bumped up to 200mg/ml ... Been using the heavier dosage for a week now... No change at all.

 

[tokon]

When used as a component, or the sole component within a TRT regimem, HCG can contribute to increased Testosterone production, there is no theory involved. In most cases when HCG is the sole unit utilized to achieve a therapeutic testosterone level the results are subpar. I am basing this statement off of professional experience, personal obervations, lab work, and anecdotal response from working one on one with patients in an age bracket of 30-65.

HCG mimics the role of luteinizing hormone, also known as "LH" once administered. LH stimulates the testes in males and ovaries in women to synthesize and secrete sex hormones or androgens. Therefore in males increasing intra testicular testosterone.

HCG is commonly used in conjunction with trstosterone by males who are prescribed TRT to help maintain testicular function and prevent atrophy (e.g. ejaculate volume, sperm production, and testicular size). Infertility issues can also be addressed with the inclusion of HCG, however, if sperm development, not only production is an issue, humam menopausal gonadotropin "HMG" will also be implemented.

You mention that you were previously applying your compounded testosterone cream to compliment your naturals levels still being produced. Chances are, once you began applying your cream you began to negate the consideration of your natural feedback and production of testosterone. The suppression of your natural trstosterone and lack of absorbance from the testosterone creamay have contributed to your results. The creams and gels, whether it be Androgel, Fortesta, compounded, or any of the others tend to show the most inconsistencies. Many variables can interfere with the absorbance rate.

You should also consider your steroid hormone binding globulin "SHBG" value. If this is high, your free and available testosterone will remain low.

Asking your physician to include HCG is a viable option but consider others beforehand. Look into alternative routes of therapy. Administration via intramuscular injection does show more stable testosterone levels and a shorter period of time before therpeutic levels are achieved. You also completely reduce the need to worry about daily application as most prescribed intramuscular TRT regimens require only one injection per week.

Additionally, consider your estadiol (E2) level and insure up to date thyroid labs. Correlations can be made if values are out of range. If fatigue and joint pain has progressed, potentially looking into adrenal function is a consideration but no reason to begin a million dollar work-up right off the bat.

Very, very, brief list of OTC supplementation that can reduce SHBG or improve overall health includes Zinc (50 mg), be sure to supplement with Copper (2-3 mg) as Zinc and Copper are antagonist. Vitamin D3 (1,000 IU per every 30 lbs of LBM/body weight), Magnesium (400 mg - 800 mg). Mineral supplements should be a chelated form or other with high bioavailability.

Some good stuff here.

 

[TheOutlier]

Where are you applying the cream?

Often times the creams, gels, ointments do take quite awhile before symptomatic improvements are notable. I have personally seen and spoke with way too many patients within the last two years who have indicated the same as you and who have since transitioned to injections.

One thing to always consider when discussing HRT, male and female, in this case testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for males...

If you can imaging an empty swimming pool, this pool is your current testosterone level, once TRT is initiated, you have now begun filling your pool with a water hose. Will this water hose fill up your pool within a day?, no, not even close, but in time, once it's filled, you will be able to keep it filled as needed with that same water hose.

This is the case with any route of TRT administration, however, as I and quite a few others have mentioned, testosterone injections do tend to work much better. If you are determined to refrain from injections and stick with the compounded cream that you are currently prescribed, give it more time. If you are applying body lotions daily or any other related hygienic regimens related to the skin in which you are applying your testosterone cream make sure that this is at a different time from your testosterone application. Also, make sure that the area of application is dry and maybe wait 15-30 minutes before coming into contact with clothes or significant others, etc. I am hoping that you are able to find a solution, let us know where you are applying and any factors that may interfere with absorbance.

So I've had my cream bumped up to 200mg/ml ... Been using the heavier dosage for a week now... No change at all.

 

[2016aldoraine]

I try to break up my applications to several areas at once. Usually the back of the knee, inner thighs at the groin, shoulder/armpit area. And sometimes my scrotum