A lesson learned about steroid dosages.

[1fst400]

The more gear you take the bigger you get end of fucking story.

I know elite powerlifter who take for his contest prep 300mg anadrol. 4g test, 1,2g tren and 1g deca and last 4 weeks as much halo And superdrol he can take and 10units Gh

Stop with this shit talk u dont need more gear to get bigger stop say u can grow muscle as much that u was 500mg as 1,5g test is no truth

you sound like such a dipshit.

 

[Landmonster]

I think some of you guys may be confusing things.


A) Just because you "feel bad" on a high dose, doesn't mean it's not building muscle more than a lower dose. I would agree that higher doses are less healthy, and less pleasurable, yes. However, they are more effective, upto a point. I think it would be ridiculous to say than 500mg of Test builds muscle as well as 1,000mg though.

B) Younger men may to be able to tolerate higher doses better than older men, for whatever reason. Perhaps it's because youthful organs (heart, kidneys, liver, etc) are more resilient, younger, and/or they handle stress and toxins better. In other words, 1,000mg of Test to a 23 year old may be easier to handle than 1,000mg of Test to a 43 year old.

c) It's much easier to MAINTAIN a size than build-up to that size.

We've all seen examples of C. Let's say you want to be able to 260lbs. It might take you years of training, eating, and drugging to be able to achieve that. However, you could maintain that size fairly easily with 250mg testosterone a week and 25 MK-677.

That much is true. But the advice you'd give to a 190lb kid who wants to be 260lbs isn't to take 250mg Testosterone a week + 25 MK-677. He might never get there.

 

[PitbullTank]

Of course dose is always gonna matter, higher dose in the same individual doing the same things equal faster tissue gain as well as fat loss... 500 tren will always be > 100mg... its just that it isnt worth the sides amd health risks for most people to make nothing from it amd get destroyed by a guy doing the same thing but w .00009 genetics whos already ifbb pros by like 20(that Cody kid) or within 5 years go from trainer to big Ramy... or maybe u do have the genetics and wind up a Dallas or Nasser down the line... 4g of test a week isnt alot of money, people dont do it bc they dont want to die from it... but trt will never > 1000mg lmao, this isnt even a argument ... but there 110% is a limit as to when you get physically ill and wont gain due to not being able to eat, crazy high bp etc

Guys say "you dont need that"... well, what shows are u winning lately? Lol

 

[nothuman]

How do your dose your 2.5iu gh? You think 4iu split at 2iu each shot crosses the threshold of therapeutic use (rejuvenation) and into increased cardiac remodeling and enlarged heart?

I'm trying to decide what dose of GH with TRT will do minimal harm to heart size.

I actually just had an echo cardiogram the other day. This is the second time I notice the left atrium and septal chamber of the heart measuring slightly higher when on HGH as opposed to it going back down to the smaller size off HGH (EF still 64% which is the important thing when it comes to enlargement). Personally I'm trying to do as much as I can get away with without needing to stop. It's only been 2 1/2 months since I began this current run of HGH. I dose it all first thing in the morning mainly for convenience and to see if I see a difference between that and splitting the dose. It seems to be the same either way. Testosterone dose is 20mg ED.

If you're asking what would happen to my heart if I upped the dose to 4iu, I wish I knew the answer. If I felt totally confident it would be ok, I'd be doing 4iu. I'm on Telmisartan 80mg, Bystolic 10mg, and Probenecid 500mg per day for heart health and pulse rate control, along with the millions of supps we both take. Let me tell you that the addition of Bystolic has completely eliminated the resting heart rate increases I normally get on HGH. I'm pretty sure it has reduced water weight too.

 

[G.I.Bro]

I actually just had an echo cardiogram the other day. This is the second time I notice the left atrium and septal chamber of the heart measuring slightly higher when on HGH as opposed to it going back down to the smaller size off HGH (EF still 64% which is the important thing when it comes to enlargement). Personally I'm trying to do as much as I can get away with without needing to stop. It's only been 2 1/2 months since I began this current run of HGH. I dose it all first thing in the morning mainly for convenience and to see if I see a difference between that and splitting the dose. It seems to be the same either way. Testosterone dose is 20mg ED.

If you're asking what would happen to my heart if I upped the dose to 4iu, I wish I knew the answer. If I felt totally confident it would be ok, I'd be doing 4iu. I'm on Telmisartan 80mg, Bystolic 10mg, and Probenecid 500mg per day for heart health and pulse rate control, along with the millions of supps we both take. Let me tell you that the addition of Bystolic has completely eliminated the resting heart rate increases I normally get on HGH. I'm pretty sure it has reduced water weight too.

I've added Bystolic to my protocol when on anything over TRT. I take Telmisartan year round. I don't like where my resting HR is; higher on GH for sure. Bystolic helps. It seems the two are highly cardio protective and I fail to see a downside to just staying on both with the concerns and family history I have (enlarged hearts).

 

[Cito33189]

I dno the more steroids i take the bigger i always got.

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

I never could take orals (except proviron) because they gave me bad heartburn and high blood pressure. But,when I was young I used to take large dosages of testosterone (e.g., 1000-1500 mgs weekly for extended periods of time). It always made me feel lethargic and would give me brain fog. As I got older, I leaned that 500-600 mgs of testosterone per week gave me about the same results, but without all the nasty side effects.

When I was younger, I use to run cycles of 300-600 mgs of tren weekly along with the testosterone. The side effects were horrible. As I got older, I learned I could run only 60-80 mgs of tren weekly and get about the same muscle building effects as the larger dosages with very few side effects.

The lesson learned is why spend the extra money on high dosages of steroids and suffer through unnecessary side effects when it's a persons GENETICS that mostly determines muscle growth and strength, not DRUGS!

Sorry bro but I have to keep it real here, I couldn't agree less. If you look as good on 500 mg Test as you did on 1G or more, then it is not the Test that is causing this. Maybe you didn't mean it as absolutely as I took it but there will be newbies reading it and believing it and it's just not true. Everyone deserves the truth, everyone is old enough to decide for their own what they do or don't do with it.[/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

That's comical to even imply that 60-80 mg's tren a week would give anyone the same gains as 300-600 a week.

If only it would! lol[/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

The biggest thing that guys should understand is that you can't force x amount of growth beyond a certain point.

Not true when talking about upping the dose

Eating 1500 calories over your maintenance won't build muscle faster than 5-700. Taking 2 grams won't build muscle faster than 600.

True

How much more protein synthesis and nitrogen retention are you going to jack up at the cost of organ strain? At the cost of feeling like death? Hating your life? lol

True

Now the dose will go up due to homeostasis but that's another topic of conversation.

True

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

But your general point is correct[/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

or



you used higher doses when you were younger, and built all the muscle that you have..


then, you got older... and life happened.. work, family...whatever.. so you took time off from the gym and deflated a little bit



then got back in the gym, and blew back up with lower doses, because you had already built the muscle in years gone by


derp.


nice lesson head trainer... you offering training and meal plans?

Now this sounds more likely [/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

Yes.

This is equivalent to all the fitness professionals now going vegetarian / vegan / whatever and going on about how they're bigger / leaner / stronger than ever.

Give a non-trained individual a vegan diet and / or minuscule doses and make them into a respectable bodybuilder. I've yet to see anyone do that.

A very annoying craze indeed :yeahthat:[/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

The more gear you take the bigger you get end of fucking story.

I know elite powerlifter who take for his contest prep 300mg anadrol. 4g test, 1,2g tren and 1g deca and last 4 weeks as much halo And superdrol he can take and 10units Gh

Stop with this shit talk u dont need more gear to get bigger stop say u can grow muscle as much that u was 500mg as 1,5g test is no truth

Amen brother :headbang:

But you know, it's not cool to say the truth. There are still many bodybuilders (most probably) out there who don't want to be honest with themselves and give the drugs the weight they should be given. I understand it, but it still massive denial.[/lang]

 

[jeroendebleser]

[lang=nl]

I decided to try a lower dose of tren this cycle. 150mg and was getting good results and even told myself that more wasn't necessary....well I upped it to 300 and guess what? More was much better lol.

To be fair and to lean towards the other side of this debate a little: 300 does seem to be the dropoff point for Tren. As maldorf said below me, Tren is powerful and a little goes a long way. I wouldn't ever do 600 a week unless I was not only competing but making money out of it.

maldorf: is Penis Pump Hernon still on here? He was always great and funny to boot, always loved Phil [/lang]

 

[thethinker48]

People interpret what they want to interpret when these threads pop up.

Nobody is saying 500 mgs of tren is giving you the same results as 100 mgs.

Taking less in the beginning will give you:

1. An appreciation for the drug; the guys that gas themselves to the gill early on have NOTHING else to go forward with. They'll do the same with GH, same with Insulin; then they'll recycle through all the drugs year round, and won't make significant changes because they built the equation backwards after a certain point. It isn't just blood levels of a hormone that build a physique; maybe for the genetically elite, but NOT for an average person. If it was as simple as having 10000 ngl of testosterone levels; we'd see freaks everywhere.

2. Keep you in this game longer. We're all damaging ourselves to a degree no matter how many precautions are taken. The less wear and tear you can put on the engine; the longer it will run. And this is the SINGLE biggest thing that is hard for a young guy to accept. You're invincible when you're young, your bloodwork is good, your tolerance is great, you can keep going. But it's the old man that's paying the bill, not the young one.

*I will say; I know guys personally who take WAY more than they should. And sadly for some people, this is the only thing that makes them sleep better at night. I got no judgement against anybody's personal decisions; I just think people should be aware more, and NOT follow these clowns who go around saying: X is what you NEED to get to Y.

Your Y is determined by your parents. And X will be determined by your mindset; An athlete or a Junkie is all up to you.

 

[philmcgroin]

NO! I am NOT offering training and meal plans. But I will throw in some things about training and diet that I have learned since you mentioned it.

1) I have learned that one must train with high intensity, but training too intensely (especially going beyond failure) causes injury. In order to prevent injuring yourself, it’s better to back off on the intensity some and also the amount of weight lifted. Use a little more volume to pump blood into the muscle while using great form ( feel the muscle contraction and squeeze the muscle being worked). Also, control the negative which also demands slowing down the speed in which you do repetition. But don’t go too slow. I used to try and beat personal records each week. HUGE MISTAKE! Now I focus on training my muscles, not how much I can lift because it destroys the connective tissues. Once again I learned it’s mostly a persons genetics, not how much weight they can throw around that determines muscle size.

2) Now I eat fewer calories to keep my weight down. Carrying too much body weight ( even in the form of muscle) increases my blood pressure. This is hard on the kidneys and heart. In addition, I don’t want to take high blood pressure medications because it can destroy your ability to perform sexually. That defeats the whole purpose in looking good naked. I used to think I needed around 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. I’ve learned I can get by consuming only 1 gram of protein per body weight daily and remain muscular and be more vascular. (Lee Haney never consumed over 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight). �� I learned once again it’s mostly a persons GENETICS, not how much protein they consume that determines muscle growth. Excess protein made me store body fat, not more muscle.

Well there you have it you are eating and training for your dose.if you up the dose without the others it will do no good.if you up your training and food the extra gear will make you bigger,providing you do it properly.after a few grams a week you can't have a job, bodybuilding becomes full time.

 

[maldorf]

[lang=nl]


maldorf: is Penis Pump Hernon still on here? He was always great and funny to boot, always loved Phil [/lang]

Phil Hernon was banned years ago. Something weird on here about how you are replying to posts. Everything in your posts is showing in the dark boxes and it makes it look like you didn't type anything. Not sure whats up with that.

 

[AthleticApe123]

Phil Hernon was banned years ago. Something weird on here about how you are replying to posts. Everything in your posts is showing in the dark boxes and it makes it look like you didn't type anything. Not sure whats up with that.

hey maldorf,
he didnt register as english as first language, thats why.
his answers get in the boxes of the language he registered with (see above the boxes)

 

[biglizard225]

Big doses..... Small doses..... if you respond you respond..

More gear more advanced cycles more advanced training more food. All lead up to bigger.

More than one way to skin a cat. Screw rules. Everyone is different

 

[buck]

I have to assume once you get to a certain threshold that the more you take will yield less gains per milligram. That is how it has seemed to work for me.

 

[liv2pb]

[lang=nl]

To be fair and to lean towards the other side of this debate a little: 300 does seem to be the dropoff point for Tren. As maldorf said below me, Tren is powerful and a little goes a long way. I wouldn't ever do 600 a week unless I was not only competing but making money out of it.

maldorf: is Penis Pump Hernon still on here? He was always great and funny to boot, always loved Phil [/lang]

I've never gone above 350 so you guys might be 100% correct. Tren makes it very hard to control my temper, and I'm normally very laid back person, so I try not to run it often. Funny thing is... I tell myself in going to run it higher almost every time but never go above 350 due to the temper issue. I can't imagine doing 600 mg