A lesson learned about steroid dosages.

[nothuman]

There’s so many studies about anti-es leading to heart trouble it’s pretty much just common knowledge at this point. They damage the inner lining of the arteries (endothelium) which allows bad cholesterol (LDL) to stick to the arteries. Do a google search. Here’s one example-American Association for Cancer Research. "Aromatase inhibitors increase risk of heart disease in postmenopausal women with breast cancer, analysis finds." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 9 December 2010. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101209101350.htm>.

This study is less worrisome, and all these studies are in postmenopausal women with breast cancer, but I suppose there is some merit I guess. High estrogen is worse for heart health though.

https://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20101209/aromatase-inhibitors-may-raise-heart-risks#1

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2008/11/Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Aging-Male/Page-01

 

[blackngold]

Did anyone else notice the last 3 guys excluding fatslice all used capital letters in their posts. It's weird to me as they have very different joining dates but no one else does that on here. Just something I noticed and I could be way off but does strike me as weird. Well Ross did that too but thats going way back. I hope headtrainer is not Ross

No Ross never used those kind of doses. He always said he only ever used one cc of sustanon a week.

 

[Elvia1023]

No Ross never used those kind of doses. He always said he only ever used one cc of sustanon a week.

I was joking but I did find it weird. No Ross used more. I can't remember details but he openly admitted to using about 1 gram (maybe 1.5g) but test was never high.

Knight some forum pops up on my Facebook I didn't know I was a member of and it is his. I checked it out and saw his profile about 6 months ago. As you state it looks like a very lavish lifestyle. I am not going to hate as who cares but older guys on here will understand when I state well it's Ross. I also don't understand the wealth unless his products are selling massive numbers in the US but I never see them mentioned anywhere. Well good for him but I am not a fan.

 

[blackngold]

I was joking but I did find it weird. No Ross used more. I can't remember details but he openly admitted to using about 1 gram (maybe 1.5g) but test was never high.

Knight some forum pops up on my Facebook I didn't know I was a member of and it is his. I checked it out and saw his profile about 6 months ago. As you state it looks like a very lavish lifestyle. I am not going to hate as who cares but older guys on here will understand when I state well it's Ross. I also don't understand the wealth unless his products are selling massive numbers in the US but I never see them mentioned anywhere. Well good for him but I am not a fan.

LOL Yeah He was all over the place depending on his agenda at that time. Good for him if he is rich, that's what his goal always was.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I wish that were my BP. I'm on 10mg of Amlodipine and my BP is still in the low 140's / low 90's Metoprolol didn't do $hit. Neither did HCTZ!

What's your age, height, and weight? Do you do cardio?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

This study is less worrisome, and all these studies are in postmenopausal women with breast cancer, but I suppose there is some merit I guess. High estrogen is worse for heart health though.

https://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20101209/aromatase-inhibitors-may-raise-heart-risks#1

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - page 1 | Life Extension

The potential negatives of AIs are something I have wondered about. I've been on ~1mg of arimidex per week since the summer. I'm only on 80mg TRT and without the AI it has me at 40-45 estradiol. With the AI it has me at 10-25 which is exactly where I want it. Total test is high normal but without the AI it's only mid-normal when on the AI.

I'm debating dropping the AI long term as I don't know if the 40-45 estradiol is really an issue.

Other issue is if I come off TRT I'd really need to have that AI with my HCG at least initially and long term I do wonder if that AI would be necessary to keep my test levels normal without the TRT.

 

[maldorf]

Ross is apparently a millionaire now driving Ferraris and living in Laguna Beach. I'm happy for him but I don't know exactly where he got wealthy. His social media is interesting to say the least...and I think he has done at least a little bit of growing up.

Id like to know more about how he made the millions. So he hit the big time.:headbang:

 

[Reload]

What's your age, height, and weight? Do you do cardio?

Almost 50, 5'7", 195-200, yes 45min 3x/wk + I surf/dive (not for the past 2.5 months, recovering from rotator cuff surgery). My job (RN Neuro/Trauma) is very active/busy/stressful.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Almost 50, 5'7", 195-200, yes 45min 3x/wk + I surf/dive (not for the past 2.5 months, recovering from rotator cuff surgery). My job (RN Neuro/Trauma) is very active/busy/stressful.

As I'm sure you see yourself given your job it is crazy sometimes seeing how differently people deal with blood pressure compared to us on this forum and in this lifestyle. The majority of my patients are over 120/80. They always tell me it's normal and "just gets elevated when they come to the office". And sometimes you just don't know.....grossly obese patient with 122/81 followed by a fairly normal sized 31 year old woman with BP 190/112 even after given nitrous oxide.

I'm lucky in that I've always had good BP even when taking moderately high doses of gear + orals. My equally fit and completely natural friend just had his father pass from an MI and when I took his BP recently it was 140/90 despite very regular exercise and good diet.

 

[Reload]

As I'm sure you see yourself given your job it is crazy sometimes seeing how differently people deal with blood pressure compared to us on this forum and in this lifestyle. The majority of my patients are over 120/80. They always tell me it's normal and "just gets elevated when they come to the office". And sometimes you just don't know.....grossly obese patient with 122/81 followed by a fairly normal sized 31 year old woman with BP 190/112 even after given nitrous oxide.

I'm lucky in that I've always had good BP even when taking moderately high doses of gear + orals. My equally fit and completely natural friend just had his father pass from an MI and when I took his BP recently it was 140/90 despite very regular exercise and good diet.

Somedays it's better than others.
My moms dad died of an aortic aneurism in his 70's. Prostate cancer runs in the family as well. I often wonder if I should go full Dorian and just smoke cannabis and do yoga all day

 

[trekrider215]

The potential negatives of AIs are something I have wondered about. I've been on ~1mg of arimidex per week since the summer. I'm only on 80mg TRT and without the AI it has me at 40-45 estradiol. With the AI it has me at 10-25 which is exactly where I want it. Total test is high normal but without the AI it's only mid-normal when on the AI.

I'm debating dropping the AI long term as I don't know if the 40-45 estradiol is really an issue.

Other issue is if I come off TRT I'd really need to have that AI with my HCG at least initially and long term I do wonder if that AI would be necessary to keep my test levels normal without the TRT.

damn only 80mg's of Test per week and you need an AI? On 200mgs/wk of Test E, i need a once week dose of 25mg's Aromasin, and that just barely keeps me in the normal range.. i really don't want to have to take any more Aromasin than that, and i prefer to not lower my TRT dose, but ultimately that will probably be what i have to do.

Have you tried different protocols while getting tested? For instance does everyday pinning or every other day make a diference in terms of E2 versus pinning once weekly for you? I dont know what youre currently doing.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

damn only 80mg's of Test per week and you need an AI? On 200mgs/wk of Test E, i need a once week dose of 25mg's Aromasin, and that just barely keeps me in the normal range.. i really don't want to have to take any more Aromasin than that, and i prefer to not lower my TRT dose, but ultimately that will probably be what i have to do.

Have you tried different protocols while getting tested? For instance does everyday pinning or every other day make a diference in terms of E2 versus pinning once weekly for you? I dont know what youre currently doing.

I was using 125mg once per week and it had my E2 at 45-50 when I tested my levels in the middle of the week. I switched to 4x per week pinning and tested my E2 again in between injections....still 45-50. Switched to SubQ injections and again E2 was the same.

So I don't know where people are getting that it will make a difference but it sure didn't for me lol.

I only take 1mg of the arimidex per week and could honestly probably make it 0.5mg per week. When I was taking 2mg of arimidex per week (all of this is from a pharmacy) my E2 was surprisingly the same as it is now on 1mg per week.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

This study is less worrisome, and all these studies are in postmenopausal women with breast cancer, but I suppose there is some merit I guess. High estrogen is worse for heart health though.

https://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20101209/aromatase-inhibitors-may-raise-heart-risks#1

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - page 1 | Life Extension

Are you (or others reading) aware of whether the increased risks seen in women taking an AI are due to the AI itself or simply due to the reduction in estrogen? If the latter, I would think the increased risk would be more significant in women, who naturally have much higher estrogen levels.

 

[danieltx]

Are you (or others reading) aware of whether the increased risks seen in women taking an AI are due to the AI itself or simply due to the reduction in estrogen? If the latter, I would think the increased risk would be more significant in women, who naturally have much higher estrogen levels.

It looks like it was more related to them being postmenopausal with breast cancer based on these lines:

However, the actual risk of any individual woman developing heart problems was relatively small -- about 4% -- in women taking either aromatase inhibitors or tamoxifen, he says.

But a woman who already has risk factors for heart disease and takes an aromatase inhibitor has a 7% chance of developing heart problems, Amir tells WebMD.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

It looks like it was more related to them being postmenopausal with breast cancer based on these lines:

That tells us it's a higher risk in those who already had some CVD issues but doesn't tell us the mechanism by which the AI increases their risk.

Hard to know whether it would be better to have E2 in an optimal range but having to use an AI, or having E2 slightly above normal but without an AI

 

[musclemoose]

That tells us it's a higher risk in those who already had some CVD issues but doesn't tell us the mechanism by which the AI increases their risk.

Hard to know whether it would be better to have E2 in an optimal range but having to use an AI, or having E2 slightly above normal but without an AI

ive been running Adex through my doctor at .25mg every day for 7 years now and have absolutely no issues with lab work every 6 months. Lipid profiles always perfect along with all the other tests we run. Estrogen always comes in around mid 30s. Low 30s is where doc wants it but mid-30s is acceptable. Anything over 40 or under 20 and you are worse off then with the adex. High or low estro leads to much more severe health problems long term in my opinion.

 

[G.I.Bro]

ive been running Adex through my doctor at .25mg every day for 7 years now and have absolutely no issues with lab work every 6 months. Lipid profiles always perfect along with all the other tests we run. Estrogen always comes in around mid 30s. Low 30s is where doc wants it but mid-30s is acceptable. Anything over 40 or under 20 and you are worse off then with the adex. High or low estro leads to much more severe health problems long term in my opinion.

You're lucky. But that's not a huge dose either. Arimidex and other AIs (letrozole, exemestane) are notoriously hard on cholesterol levels. They will drive good HDL very low in a majority of people if used heavily. Any AI is not great for lipid profile, but heavy use of AI will impact most people's blood work. It's best to use as little as absolutely necessary for HRT or cycling.

 

[musclemoose]

Are you (or others reading) aware of whether the increased risks seen in women taking an AI are due to the AI itself or simply due to the reduction in estrogen? If the latter, I would think the increased risk would be more significant in women, who naturally have much higher estrogen levels.

First of all these women already have health issues which is why they are taking adex. i dont believe these studies should apply to healthy male adults trying to keep estrogen under control. Plus in most studies of already "sick" women they are taking the adex at higher dosages then men do. We're comparing apples to oranges. i listen to my wellness doctors who've dealt with guys like me for over a decade and see bloodwork on their patients regularly. if your taking test or any steroids that convert to estrogen you should be taking adex. High estrogen long term is much worse for you health wise then .25mg of adex per day to control it.

 

[musclemoose]

Arimidex and other AIs (letrozole, exemestane) are notoriously hard on cholesterol levels. They will drive good HDL very low. Any AI is not great for lipid profile, but heavy use of AI will impact most people's blood work. It's best to use as little as absolutely necessary for HRT or cycling.

hasnt been the case for me. My lipid profiles improved from 10 years ago. High estrogen is way worse for your lipid profiles then the adex you're using to control it.

 

[musclemoose]

As I'm sure you see yourself given your job it is crazy sometimes seeing how differently people deal with blood pressure compared to us on this forum and in this lifestyle. The majority of my patients are over 120/80. They always tell me it's normal and "just gets elevated when they come to the office". And sometimes you just don't know.....grossly obese patient with 122/81 followed by a fairly normal sized 31 year old woman with BP 190/112 even after given nitrous oxide.

I'm lucky in that I've always had good BP even when taking moderately high doses of gear + orals. My equally fit and completely natural friend just had his father pass from an MI and when I took his BP recently it was 140/90 despite very regular exercise and good diet.

I dont know what your diet is but a lot of peoples BP issues are because of what they are eating. When i run high dose test and eat clean my BP is perfect. When i run high dose test and eat "less" clean my BP elevates.