AAS + blood clot disorders gave me a heart attack

[aqrojase]

Depend what you consider lower doz, for some one with blood disorder 200mg per week it could be to much.

Emric...I under you're a professional BB and must have done longer and higher dosage cycles in your early days. How long did you cycle for before you found out about your condition?

My stats are
28 yo
started juicing at 26 year of age
Mostly test at 500mg.

certian precations i am taking right now are..
12000mg fish oil
400mg coq10
1200mg hawthorne extract
1 baby asprin
3000mg garlic tab

do i need anything else with this to keep heart healthy?

Thank you very much.

 

[Fatty_S]

Raised red blood count has been my biggest concern also with deca and eq. Is taking aspirine during a cycle a solution?

 

[comedycentral]

good luck mike and i wish you all the best and thanks for sharing.

after 3 yrs off everything i was looking at starting back test only for a short 4-6 week course followed by d aspartic for several weeks.

im talking about 250mg every 7 days followed by a long period off. is there any real risk involved in this????

 

[Fatty_S]

good luck mike and i wish you all the best and thanks for sharing.

after 3 yrs off everything i was looking at starting back test only for a short 4-6 week course followed by d aspartic for several weeks.

im talking about 250mg every 7 days followed by a long period off. is there any real risk involved in this????

You can never tell that because everyone is different. 99 percent of people will be safe on that. Myself I have side effects on that low dose of test because of dht conversion. I have been on so much gear the past 15 years that my prostate doesn't support anything that is a dht derivate or converts in dht. But 99 percent of people will support this low dose.

Want to note also that 4-6 weeks on test is too short unless you choose for proprionate ester

 

[mikevegas]

No matter what anyone takes, or what dosage, you will increase clot risk. If you are a normal healthy person, then you are at minimal additional risk from running AAS. If you have a blood disorder, running any AAS is gas on a fire. Running EQ is like nitro-methane on a fire (if you don't know drag racing, yes that's much worse than gas). That's why we are saying GET TESTED.

There are numerous blood disorders out there, and they cause different issues. Some can increase RBC, some WBC, some Platelets. Some can elevate all three. Some are issues with enzymes in blood that are supposed to break down clots after called to use, but they do not function properly and do not break up clots it what would be considered a timely manner, leading to clot build up.

If you want to be safe, you need to get tested. If there are any abnormalities, you need to figure out what and why. If you find you have a high RBC count, that doesn't explain why. It's like taking your temperature, if you find you have a fever, you don't know the cause you just know you are sick.

 

[mikevegas]

As far as what drugs to take, keep in mind much of what we take is straight up illegal, so there isn't any real world testing going on for these drugs because, well they are illegal. Anavar and Test are not illegal, just illegal without prescription. You can find real information on these drugs, real clinical feedback. Trying to find clinical feedback on say Masteron, not so easy to do.

What I know: All AAS increases risk for blood clots.

What I know: Test and Anavar run lowest risk for me, should I run AAS again.

What I know: EQ is poison in a bottle for people with blood disorders.

If I were to cycle again, I'm sure it would be 400-500mg a week max of Test (I've never run higher anyway), and probably 30mg Anavar. I would follow my blood donation protocol. I would watch my blood work every two weeks. Keep in mind that I am on Plavix, Aspirin, Coumadin for my condition, so I am not doing this with an unchecked condition.

This is what I believe might be a safe route for me, should I so choose. However, I know my condition, I know my Med list, and I know to watch my blood work every two weeks, and to stop if there are any concerns.

This is my own safety protocol, with all the information that I need being available to me. If you follow my protocol, or your own protocol, or anyone else's, without being tested, then you are flying blind aren't you? Flying blind almost killed me 15 months ago. If you want to run that risk go for it, each person has the right to live their life how they so choose. If something bad happens you just can't say anymore that Mike and Maldorf didn't warn you.

 

[mikevegas]

Please if you can post your cycle history. How long have you been cycling and at what dosages? What are some of the AAS you have used in the past? Were you taking precautions such as healthy heart supps (fish oil, asprin, garlic, coq10, hawthorne berry) during your cycles. Thank you?

Going on 41 and using most of my adult life that is too long, and too long ago, to get specific. I've never done big cycles, I compete in too many other sports, and couldn't afford to have a bodybuilder size. Max dosage per week ever maybe 600mg, longest cycle 8 weeks. Most frequented drugs were Primobolan, EQ, Anavar. Used Dbol a couple times, test a few times. I've always been a very mild recreational user, typically pulling something out for summer and winter run.

When I had the heart attack I ran EQ first three weeks at 200mg, next two weeks at 400mg, then heart attack. As you can see, I am not an abuser. Just goes to show you that doing low dose, thinking you are safe, is false sense of security. If I didn't have my disorders, I'm sure I would have been. As I keep saying however, I had them, I didn't know it, and I almost lost my life for it.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Emric...I under you're a professional BB and must have done longer and higher dosage cycles in your early days. How long did you cycle for before you found out about your condition?

My stats are
28 yo
started juicing at 26 year of age
Mostly test at 500mg.

certian precations i am taking right now are..
12000mg fish oil
400mg coq10
1200mg hawthorne extract
1 baby asprin
3000mg garlic tab

do i need anything else with this to keep heart healthy?

Thank you very much.

Actually in the early days I was not taking any hormones, I started taking in 1988 and I sterted with Dianabol 25mg per day. Then in 1995 I started Test 300mg per week, 6 months on 6 weeks off, I was doing this till 2003 , in 2004 I was taking 500mg per week and I anded up with the blood cloth, and that how I finded out that I have Factor 5 blood disorder.

If you train correctly you don`t need take mega doze of hormones, of course you will not look like Mr.O, but you can have a pro looking boody.

Here is a photo me winning the Eastern Europe contes 1981, with out any hormones.

I would add to your supplements Nattokinase.

 

[aqrojase]

THANKS

Thanks a lot "EMERIC" "MIKEVEGAS" "MALDORF" I don't know if I have blood disorder..but i do have (isolated systolic high bp) my bp is usually 145/70 when on. so keeping heart healthy is a major concern. Thanks again for the great information.

 

[maldorf]

Raised red blood count has been my biggest concern also with deca and eq. Is taking aspirine during a cycle a solution?

It can help but it is no solution. It does nothing to lower the amount of red blood cells, and so the blood is just as thick as it was before. It just makes platelets less sticky. Also, if your hematocrit is really high it makes your heart labor harder to push that thick blood and that I think can lead to heart troubles (cardiomyopathy).

 

[chrisrivers]

EMERIC, MIKEVEGAS,MALDORF or anybody with experience/knowledge.

This happened to me a few weeks ago...I was eating dinner and all of a sudden i got a muscle cramp in my left pec. Iam 99% sure it was a muscle cramp cause i had them before in my hams,calves,etc.

I felt no sharp, needle pain. No stabbing pain. Really nothing internal i guess you can say.

I'll be 30 next month. Cycling last 5 years. Haven't had blood work done since 2009 but all was fine expect elevated LDL.

My question is did any of you guys experience a pec cramp prior to your heart attack?

 

[animal eater]

Good thread here,

Certainly doing cycles with any genetic clotting disorders is a scary proposition. 8 months ago, I had a bilateral pulmonary embolism which was the result from a long plane ride with my daughter falling asleep on my lap. Luckily I was very fit and no damage was done. Still very scary and I do have a few months of warfarin left to go. I had all the genetic testing done and all were negative. Still going through something like that makes you think twice about cycling and any increased risks involved.

 

[emeric delczeg]

EMERIC, MIKEVEGAS,MALDORF or anybody with experience/knowledge.

This happened to me a few weeks ago...I was eating dinner and all of a sudden i got a muscle cramp in my left pec. Iam 99% sure it was a muscle cramp cause i had them before in my hams,calves,etc.

I felt no sharp, needle pain. No stabbing pain. Really nothing internal i guess you can say.

I'll be 30 next month. Cycling last 5 years. Haven't had blood work done since 2009 but all was fine expect elevated LDL.

My question is did any of you guys experience a pec cramp prior to your heart attack?

I had blood cloth no stroke, in my case I had sever constant back pain for many many weeks, no cramp. I am shure you had just a simple muscle cramp.

 

[maldorf]

EMERIC, MIKEVEGAS,MALDORF or anybody with experience/knowledge.

This happened to me a few weeks ago...I was eating dinner and all of a sudden i got a muscle cramp in my left pec. Iam 99% sure it was a muscle cramp cause i had them before in my hams,calves,etc.

I felt no sharp, needle pain. No stabbing pain. Really nothing internal i guess you can say.

I'll be 30 next month. Cycling last 5 years. Haven't had blood work done since 2009 but all was fine expect elevated LDL.

My question is did any of you guys experience a pec cramp prior to your heart attack?

No, the two should be totally unrelated.

 

[mikevegas]

For me the first symptom was dead center pain in my chest, from zero to all of the sudden like someone stuck a knife in my chest. You won't mistake it for muscle cramping. However there are numerous symptoms you can get, one or all. For Mal his was a bit different and could be confused for over straining in gym. For me it was like the classic movie heart attack, within 5 minutes of the first symptom I then had all the symptoms and knew my life was on the line. Symptoms from Heart Association:

Uncomfortable pressure, fullness, squeezing or pain in the center of the chest lasting more than a few minutes.

Pain spreading to the shoulders, neck or arms. The pain may be mild to intense. It may feel like pressure, tightness, burning, or heavy weight. It may be located in the chest, upper abdomen, neck, jaw, or inside the arms or shoulders.

Chest discomfort with lightheadedness, fainting, sweating, nausea or shortness of breath.

Anxiety, nervousness and/or cold, sweaty skin.

Paleness or pallor.

Increased or irregular heart rate.

Feeling of impending doom.

 

[animal eater]

My warning signs

With my bilateral pulmonary embolism, the warning signs were discomfort between the shoulder pains and below my left pec. On top of that my resting heart rate was a good 60 points higher than normal and BP was also far to high. Luck a few others mentioned, I was very lucky to be in the right place at the right time as these embolisms can be very deadly.

 

[Creation]

anyone know much about a correlation with dehydration and high Hematocrit

learned in physiology today that dehydration can bring hematocrit up to possibly 70%

Just a thought but running deca/eq/tren for long periods of time + not drinking enough water + having a clotting disorder..just another variable I suppose tho, but i would like to hear what some of you other educated bros have to say

 

[chrisrivers]

Thanks for the answers. Sure does make me re think about some stuff.

 

[maldorf]

For me the first symptom was dead center pain in my chest, from zero to all of the sudden like someone stuck a knife in my chest. You won't mistake it for muscle cramping. However there are numerous symptoms you can get, one or all. For Mal his was a bit different and could be confused for over straining in gym. For me it was like the classic movie heart attack, within 5 minutes of the first symptom I then had all the symptoms and knew my life was on the line. Symptoms from Heart Association:

Uncomfortable pressure, fullness, squeezing or pain in the center of the chest lasting more than a few minutes.

Pain spreading to the shoulders, neck or arms. The pain may be mild to intense. It may feel like pressure, tightness, burning, or heavy weight. It may be located in the chest, upper abdomen, neck, jaw, or inside the arms or shoulders.

Chest discomfort with lightheadedness, fainting, sweating, nausea or shortness of breath.

Anxiety, nervousness and/or cold, sweaty skin.

Paleness or pallor.

Increased or irregular heart rate.

Feeling of impending doom.

Me personally I never had any chest pain at all. This is what I had: dizziness, nausea, and heart burn feeling in throat. All of the symtoms but the burning in my throat went away after about 45 minutes. I brushed it off as just pusing my self too hard on squats. A lot of guys never have any chest pain, and I think ive read that women are even moreso that way.

 

[maldorf]

anyone know much about a correlation with dehydration and high Hematocrit

learned in physiology today that dehydration can bring hematocrit up to possibly 70%

Just a thought but running deca/eq/tren for long periods of time + not drinking enough water + having a clotting disorder..just another variable I suppose tho, but i would like to hear what some of you other educated bros have to say

In normal daily activity or just lifting at they gym it could have some impact but surely not 70%. YOu know something is wrong when its consistenty high too. If you ever think it might be dehyradation then be sure to drink plenty of water 24 hours before the test and right before. I tried that several times and it did NOTHING to bring my hematocrit down. So IMO dehyrdation doesnt really come into play for most of us.