ACTUAL study on MK-677 from PubMed

[Mike Arnold]

So your response is that you can't find any evidence?
But since you wanna go there, I simply asked for proof. Sure it should be there if "we all know it"
We all know one thing, you talk out of your bum to sell what ever, all while calling it better than everyone else's.
Is it bad to ask for real muscle proof from guys that keep selling the idea along with their claims?
Sit down if you wanna argue. Find your logic before starting something you can't finish. It would be nice if someone could find true muscle gain studies, but none of us have it seems.

Did you just ignore my last post? I'll repeat myself, since you like to ignore people's responses.

No ethical scientist is ever going to study the effects of supraphysiological doses of growth hormone in weight trainers for the purpose of muscle growth, but we know exactly what IGF-1 is and what it does. The evidence that IGF-1 stimulates growth, through a number of mechanism, is irrefutable....and only someone exceedingly ignorant regarding IGF-1's role in the body would claim otherwise. Again, do some research on IGF-1, since you don't see to know what it's most basic functions are.

While you're at it, do some research on Superdrol, methylstenbolone, trestolone, and about 100 other steroids...all of which stimulate muscle growth, but none of which have ever been clinically proven to stimulate muscle growth in humans...because again, no ethical scientist is ever going to study these drugs in bodybuilders for the purpose of muscle growth. But let me guess, you don't think those drugs stimulate growth either, right?

You must be the only person on the planet that frequents bodybuilding message boards, who denies he growth promoting effects of IGF-1.

For the record, I was saying the same stuff about MK-677 and GH LONG BEFORE I ever even thought about selling MK-677. So, before you insinuate that I am saying MK/GH/IGF-1 stimulate growth simply because I sell MK-677, look back at my post history first, asshole. But you already know that.

Lastly, my MK-677 IS better than everyone else's...and I attached 20+ scientific references to my product description proving that.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Actually you just couldn't find a single study.
Guys like Stewie chimed in to confirm this, if I remember.
There is tons of research showing IGF-1 promotes growth.

As far as Stewie goes, yes, he did say there were no studies showing GH causes muscle growth in humans, but he did not say GH does not cause growth. In fact, when he was asked point blank "are you denying that supraphysiological doses of growth hormone can stimulate muscle growth", he would not agree to that...because he knew better. Again, Stewie is smart enough to understand that IGF-1 stimulates growth, especially at physiological levels (which is exactly what growth hormone does). Oh, recent studies also show that even the GH molecule itself likely plays a role in muscle growth.


All you have to do is show your work, why is that so hard to show proof of that in which you speak? You get defensive when people ask for proof. Please sit down Mr. "My MK is better than your MK"
If there are no studies and never will be, you should stop talking as if there is any proof of what you say.
My work? My MK-677 IS better than everyone else's...and I attached 20+ scientific references to my product description showing why this is the case.


I've used plenty of hgh and at high dosages. I've used High pharmacy grade specifically.
LOL at the guy that demands scientific studies (while simultaneously rejecting studies that show IGF-1 causes muscle growth), who then goes on to cite personal use as evidence of his claims.

Aside from the fact that IGF-1 (which GH directly increases) has been proven to stimulate growth, there are also many 1,000's of bodybuilders all over the world who have experienced the exact opposite of you. No drug continues to remain in widespread use for 25 years...and be considered one of the top 3 PED's in the bodybuilding world, if it doesn't work, but we'll use your sole experience as proof of GH's "ineffectiveness".

Drop your dumb-ass argument that GH/IGF-1 doesn't stimulate growth...because you sound like an idiot, especially after years of continuing to ignore people's points and ague in circles.

 

[Mike Arnold]

It says fat free mass. I wanna know what that mass is.
Is that listed anywhere?

Exactly. LOL at your assumptive, biased perspective. Talk about seeing what isn't there.

Of course, lets forget about all the people who have put on solid bodyweight (which they kept after they went off) when using MK-677.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I'll use an analogy to illustrate Cinder's argument is (e.g. that IGF-1, but not GH, stimulates muscle growth):


* 100 studies show testosterone causes muscle growth in humans.

* New drug is released which raises test levels (a pro-drug to testosterone) into the stratosphere.

* Cinder acknowledges that testosterone stimulates growth, but denies that pro-drug stimulates growth.





Cinder's actual argument:


* 100 studies show IGF-1 stimulates muscle growth.

* Growth hormone (a pro-drug to IGF-1) raises IGF-1 levels into the supraphysiological range.

* Cinder accepts that IGF-1 stimulates growth, but denies that growth hormone stimulates growth.


?????????????????

 

[Pretzel Logic]

Cinder, what effect did taking GH give you?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Professional Muscle mobile app

 

[Cinder]

Mikey so where is the igf study?

I'm not responding to what you say because you're a broken record of bullshit and everyone knows it.

 

[Cinder]

Cinder, what effect did taking GH give you?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Professional Muscle mobile app

Gained weight that looks real nice cause it's water under the muscle while losing weight. It's a lot of weight to.
But once u stop the weight goes away.
It's a cosmetic drug that I think only helps facilitate growth through its healing properties along with ur other shit, but it isn't making a giant difference in my experience. Everyone will see a massive drop in weight once they stop. My experience and many others.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Gained weight that looks real nice cause it's water under the muscle while losing weight. It's a lot of weight to.
But once u stop the weight goes away.
It's a cosmetic drug that I think only helps facilitate growth through its healing properties along with ur other shit, but it isn't making a giant difference in my experience. Everyone will see a massive drop in weight once they stop. My experience and many others.

GH always causes an increase in intramuscular water. This is one of its biggest benefits (from an appearance standpoint) and why people often put on 5-15 pounds in the first couple weeks of use.

This is similar to what bodybuilders experience with Anadrol and other steroids that inhibit 11-beta hydroxylase, but this transient effect is not related to growth hormone's ability to stimulate genuine muscle growth via IGF-1 elevation...and there is no denying that IGF-1 has growth promoting properties...and string ones at that.

The weight gain attributable to IGF-1 induced muscle growth takes place much more slowly compared to the weight gained as a result of water retention, but it is substantial, with many bodybuilders adding a solid 5-10 pounds of lean muscle tissue over time. because IGF-1 works through a completely different mechanism than AAS, benefits will be realized regardless of how advanced one is. this is why bodybuilder always experience an increase in growth when first adding GH/IGF-1 to their programs, even if they are already quite large.

No one is claiming that IGF-1 is as potent for muscle growth as AAS is, but any drug which can put even 5-10 pounds of lean tissue on someone over a 3-12 month period is damn impressive. I have seen too many bodybuilder add a good 5-10 pounds of "maintainable" bodyweight (e.g muscle) with prolonged GH and/or IGF-1 use. When you add on the 5-15 pounds of intramuscular water (that looks just like muscle because it is inside the muscle) that GH provides, you are looking at a drug which can potentially make someone look like they gained 20+ pounds of muscle over time. That is why bodybuilders use GH--because of its muscle volumizing and growth facilitating properties.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Mikey so where is the igf study?

I'm not responding to what you say because you're a broken record of bullshit and everyone knows it.

You're not responding because you can't--at least not in a way that makes sense. You've dug yourself into a hole with your wacked out "IGF-1 doesn't stimulate muscle growth" beliefs.

There is a ton of research out there showing that IGF-1 stimulates muscle growth. Look it up. It's really entry-level information. I won't cater to your ignorance any longer. Your claim is about as ridiculous as saying steroids don't stimulate growth. It's called insulin-like "growth" factor for a reason.

There is also a reason everyone said you were full of shit the last time this subject came up--and its not because you are correct.

Cinder, you must be the only person in the world that frequents bodybuilding forums who denies IGF-1's growth stimulating properties, yet you think I am full of shit? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on Pro Muscle. LOL.

I don't think there is any reason to continue here. The bottom line is that you think IGF-1 doesn't stimulate growth (which essentially means you are refuting everything science has taught us about IGF-1 up to this point) and I say IGF-1 does have growth promoting properties.

Based on that alone, I think people can make up their minds regarding who they think is right and who they think is wrong.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Gained weight that looks real nice cause it's water under the muscle while losing weight. It's a lot of weight to.
But once u stop the weight goes away.
It's a cosmetic drug that I think only helps facilitate growth through its healing properties along with ur other shit, but it isn't making a giant difference in my experience. Everyone will see a massive drop in weight once they stop. My experience and many others.

Wait...did you just say that you think GH does cause muscle growth? WTF are you even arguing for then? Un-frickin' real. This whole time you have been denying that GH stimulates growth...and now you get on here and say that you think it does? Unbelievable. More like unbelievably retarded. What the hell is even going on here. Are you OK in the head, Cinder?

I guess this argument is over. Cinder suddenly thinks GH does promote muscle growth.

 

[thethinker48]

Look, I got no part in this argument here, but to deny GH doesn't aid in muscle growth, and has been one of the primary reasons why bodybuilders in the 90s were significantly bigger is preposterous.

Just using AAS for muscle growth can be a double edged sword, at some point it becomes hazardous to one's health to just keep increasing the dose, adding GH or peptides in this case can help you keep your AAS dose lower, and still continue to grow, and arguably stay healthier.

You might not find studies on this because well the medical community has no interest testing GH for muscle growth, but trust me, thousands of bodybuilders, their experience, and personal experience is plenty.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[adpolice]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1456062/

 

[Cinder]

Wait...did you just say that you think GH does cause muscle growth? WTF are you even arguing for then? Un-frickin' real. This whole time you have been denying that GH stimulates growth...and now you get on here and say that you think it does? Unbelievable. More like unbelievably retarded. What the hell is even going on here. Are you OK in the head, Cinder?

I guess this argument is over. Cinder suddenly thinks GH does promote muscle growth.

I didn't say it grows muscle. I said it's healing can help while other things are doing it. But it does not grow muscle.
And you still can't prove that it does...
You're full bad advice. I remember your eq advice of over 3 grams of eq that you denied saying years later.
Get real already....

 

[Cinder]

Look, I got no part in this argument here, but to deny GH doesn't aid in muscle growth, and has been one of the primary reasons why bodybuilders in the 90s were significantly bigger is preposterous.

Just using AAS for muscle growth can be a double edged sword, at some point it becomes hazardous to one's health to just keep increasing the dose, adding GH or peptides in this case can help you keep your AAS dose lower, and still continue to grow, and arguably stay healthier.

You might not find studies on this because well the medical community has no interest testing GH for muscle growth, but trust me, thousands of bodybuilders, their experience, and personal experience is plenty.

Just my thoughts.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

You lower the aas dosage because Hgh makes u bigger with water.
That's a choice based on what you think is muscle. Most guys carry 20lbs of water on a good dosage of real Hgh. And you look great being that you lose fat and gain water in the muscle.
And actually there is a study of igf for "recreational" athletes that gained no body mass.

http://ergo-log.com/igf-1-analogue-mecasermin-endurance.html

 

[Cinder]

Back to the subject...

 

[RamboStallone]

You lower the aas dosage because Hgh makes u bigger with water.
That's a choice based on what you think is muscle. Most guys carry 20lbs of water on a good dosage of real Hgh. And you look great being that you lose fat and gain water in the muscle.
And actually there is a study of igf for "recreational" athletes that gained no body mass.

http://ergo-log.com/igf-1-analogue-mecasermin-endurance.html

How is that study related to Gh? I disagree completely with what you're saying. There is scientific data proving HGH builds muscle. Bodybuilders are not just using it for sone water to look bigger, that is ridiculous to say. GH is a hormone, it puts on solid tissue. Your body recovers faster for a reason, you are accelerating everything when adding HGH. IGF1 and MGF are increased significantly with GH use, meaning post training the body is rebuilding at an accelerated rate. How can you deny that builds muscle?

Why would docs prescribe gh for growth if it's just water and fat loss?

 

[RamboStallone]

I'm willing to bet that if you look at all the HGH studies and replace them with MK677, many of the findings would be the same.

They are, I've read probably a hundred studies on gh, gh secretagogues, and igf. Anybody denying they build muscle and tissue has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and has no understanding of the hormone or its fucntions.

 

[RamboStallone]

Here's one of the better studies on MK677 in my opinion. Read through it all, this is not just an abstract but the entire study with the details. They even explain GH and it's actions. All the context is there.

**broken link removed**

 

[OutToLunch]

Why bother with this guy. He is the same dude who said beef protein isolate is a scam product. Nevertheless from TN/Dante whose reputation is impeccable. I guess syraplex is also a scam product. Sorry. Back on topic fellas.

 

[Cinder]

How is that study related to Gh? I disagree completely with what you're saying. There is scientific data proving HGH builds muscle. Bodybuilders are not just using it for sone water to look bigger, that is ridiculous to say. GH is a hormone, it puts on solid tissue. Your body recovers faster for a reason, you are accelerating everything when adding HGH. IGF1 and MGF are increased significantly with GH use, meaning post training the body is rebuilding at an accelerated rate. How can you deny that builds muscle?

Why would docs prescribe gh for growth if it's just water and fat loss?

That's what I'm asking for. If there's scientific data let's see it.
I just wanted to see where it says muscle is gained. No study has yet, or no one can find it.
Despite people having hiv they're not gaining muscle from 18iu a day. They maintain body weight and only gain muscle when a steroid is introduced. Hgh is always explained by growth hormones helping fat loss and igf helping muscle gain. But where is that muscle gain proof.That's all I'm looking for....
And seriously a drug that fills you up with 20 lbs of water while leaning you out, why wouldn't a body builder use it.
You look amazing on it till you drop it and drop that water.
The muscle you gained isn't from the Hgh. But you do have other tissues that have grown. Try hgh for a year alone, see how much muscle u gain. Here's something ive heard..
We all keep hearing that Bodybuilders aren't using as much aas as we think. Then they look tiny once they take a break or not competing. If they're not using as much as we think yet still getting smaller , it might point to no longer using Hgh at higher dosages.
We all gain huge weight on Hgh and look amazing on it, especially at higher dosages. If hgh caused a more permanent gain in muscle as people say, why are guys losing so much size once they take a break.
I've used a lot of hgh and can tell you that it's only a tool in bodybuilding, but does not grow muscle. Other stuff grows muscle while hgh helps you heal more. By more I don't mean you're gaining more muscle from the other stuff because you're healing like wolverine, from hgh.

Has anyone here taken pharmacy grade at high dosages for a prolonged time frame?