ACTUAL study on MK-677 from PubMed

[Cinder]

Why bother with this guy. He is the same dude who said beef protein isolate is a scam product. Nevertheless from TN/Dante whose reputation is impeccable. I guess syraplex is also a scam product. Sorry. Back on topic fellas.

I said beef isolate is just beef gelatin and aminos added.
I use TN and was just wondering why he'd have that product.

 

[Cinder]

They are, I've read probably a hundred studies on gh, gh secretagogues, and igf. Anybody denying they build muscle and tissue has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and has no understanding of the hormone or its fucntions.

I'd love to see these. Please post if you're allowed.

 

[Cinder]

Here's one of the better studies on MK677 in my opinion. Read through it all, this is not just an abstract but the entire study with the details. They even explain GH and it's actions. All the context is there.

**broken link removed**

That's a good one. Thank u

 

[Cinder]

Stewie come chime in with your thoughts

 

[OutToLunch]

Please someone post a study that water is wet...

 

[RamboStallone]

I'd love to see these. Please post if you're allowed.

Bingo you said it yourself steroids are needed, let's think about puberty for a second. Test and GH are both present for the growth. So like when you said adding gh just aids to water in muscle and fat loss, well no it's not that simple. But yes you're right, you're not going to gain muscle just being on gh, AAS is always the base. I've said this over and over gh, slin, peps, etc, its all just toppings. AAS is the actual cake.

So yes unless you are gh deficient, taking a normal person and giving them gh is not going to yeild muscle gains. You can argue none of these drugs build muscle, alot of it is done through indirect mechanisms which results in growth. It's not like testosterone just turns into muscle cells, wish it was that easy lol.

 

[RamboStallone]

That's a good one. Thank u

I have an entire book on gh secretagogues, it would be hard to share it all here lol.

 

[Cinder]

I have an entire book on gh secretagogues, it would be hard to share it all here lol.

There's a book...cool I need that lol
And thanks for your added info.

 

[Chemyo]

Endocrine and autocrine/paracrine effects of GH and IGF1 are distinct.

From what I have read there is little evidence to suggest that systemic GH or IGF-1 increases skeletal muscle mass in healthy subjects.

LBM difference can indeed be attributed to water retention or the increase of soft tissue, as GH has a stimulatory effect on collagen synthesis.

That being said @RamboStallone makes a very good point that there are no rigorous studies done on GH + other performance drugs like AAS.

Stacking it, could tell us a whole different story.

Overview of the effects of different levels of growth hormone (GH), circulating IGF-I (cIGF-I) and IGF-I synthesized in muscle (mIGF-I) on muscle mass and/or performance. In healthy subjects, supraphysiological GH and cIGF-I have no effect on muscle mass. In contrast, supraphysiological levels of mIGF-I increase muscle mass and may play a role in the hypertrophic adaptation to exercise. Deficiency in GH or IGF-I results in reduction in muscle mass.

 

[RamboStallone]

Endocrine and autocrine/paracrine effects of GH and IGF1 are distinct.

From what I have read there is little evidence to suggest that systemic GH or IGF-1 increases skeletal muscle mass in healthy subjects.

LBM difference can indeed be attributed to water retention or the increase of soft tissue, as GH has a stimulatory effect on collagen synthesis.

That being said @RamboStallone makes a very good point that there are no rigorous studies done on GH + other performance drugs like AAS.

Stacking it, could tell us a whole different story.

To add to what you posted I have read and heard there is evidence to suggest that the presence of gh and slin around the workout period is one of the only known ways to increase mIGF/MGF (local igf in the muscle which is directly anabolic and geared towards muscle growth). That's what we are after when we inject gh, peps, and slin around training. None of the studies done on GH do they use it preworkout either which may yield completely different results. GH and slin used preworkout only may be the most efficient way to use them if strictly after muscle growth, it's just a guess but there is alot of anecdotal evidence to support this theory for what it's worth.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I didn't say it grows muscle. I said it's healing can help while other things are doing it. But it does not grow muscle.
And you still can't prove that it does...
You're full bad advice. I remember your eq advice of over 3 grams of eq that you denied saying years later.
Get real already....

Your quote: "It's a cosmetic drug that I think only helps facilitate growth through its healing properties".

Sounds like an admission of muscle growth to me. Plus, let's not forget the link adpolice posted, which shows that GH contributes to muscle growth independent of IGF-1. I have been saying for the last 2 years that GH not only stimulates growth through IGF-1 elevation, but that even the GH molecule itself aides in growth (although the mechanisms ae still unclear).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1456062/

 

[Mike Arnold]

How is that study related to Gh? I disagree completely with what you're saying. There is scientific data proving HGH builds muscle. Bodybuilders are not just using it for sone water to look bigger, that is ridiculous to say. GH is a hormone, it puts on solid tissue. Your body recovers faster for a reason, you are accelerating everything when adding HGH. IGF1 and MGF are increased significantly with GH use, meaning post training the body is rebuilding at an accelerated rate. How can you deny that builds muscle?

Why would docs prescribe gh for growth if it's just water and fat loss?

Rambo, we all know what you're saying is true. He is just making himself look stupid by saying that GH (and especially IGF-1) doesn't stimulate growth.

 

[Mike Arnold]

They are, I've read probably a hundred studies on gh, gh secretagogues, and igf. Anybody denying they build muscle and tissue has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and has no understanding of the hormone or its fucntions.

Exactly what I have been saying. The denial itself blows my mind. It shows massive ignorance.

 

[Mike Arnold]

That's what I'm asking for. If there's scientific data let's see it.
I just wanted to see where it says muscle is gained. No study has yet, or no one can find it.
Despite people having hiv they're not gaining muscle from 18iu a day. They maintain body weight and only gain muscle when a steroid is introduced. Hgh is always explained by growth hormones helping fat loss and igf helping muscle gain. But where is that muscle gain proof.That's all I'm looking for....
And seriously a drug that fills you up with 20 lbs of water while leaning you out, why wouldn't a body builder use it.
You look amazing on it till you drop it and drop that water.
The muscle you gained isn't from the Hgh. But you do have other tissues that have grown. Try hgh for a year alone, see how much muscle u gain. Here's something ive heard..
We all keep hearing that Bodybuilders aren't using as much aas as we think. Then they look tiny once they take a break or not competing. If they're not using as much as we think yet still getting smaller , it might point to no longer using Hgh at higher dosages.
We all gain huge weight on Hgh and look amazing on it, especially at higher dosages. If hgh caused a more permanent gain in muscle as people say, why are guys losing so much size once they take a break.
I've used a lot of hgh and can tell you that it's only a tool in bodybuilding, but does not grow muscle. Other stuff grows muscle while hgh helps you heal more. By more I don't mean you're gaining more muscle from the other stuff because you're healing like wolverine, from hgh.

Has anyone here taken pharmacy grade at high dosages for a prolonged time frame?

You sound like a moron. Rambo and apolice already posted data. Read it. there is a shit-ton more out there. Oh, by the way, Anamorelin was recently shown to increase lean body mass and was just released as a muscle building drug in Europe. Anamorelin is a secretagogue like MK-677. Same mechanism of action.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Stewie come chime in with your thoughts

Stewie isn't going to deny that IGF-1 stimulates growth. He wouldn't do it before and he won't do it now. He's not dumb...and quite frankly, with the new research showing that the GH molecule itself also plays a role n muscle growth (which adpolice posted and which I have been citing for about 2 years now), don't expect any help from him.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Please someone post a study that water is wet...

LOL. Awesome.

 

[Landmonster]

I may be on the few people on here that have tried GH peps alone... without any AAS to help. I used GH peps before venturing into any AAS.

Years ago, I ran a pep cycle of multiple shots per day of 100mcg GHRP-2 mixed with 100mcg CJC(noDAC).

• My body weight, and apparent fat-free mass went up about 15lbs.
• My lifetime max lifts increased
• My gym repetitions increased dramatically
• People in my gym started asking me unsolicited questions about how I was gaining size and strength

I had the typical GH side effects: lethargy, sore joints, bloating, etc. So I felt like the peps were legitimate, although I didn't have bloodwork done. Surely I gained some water, but the muscle building effects were REAL.


This is only an anecdotal story but it is true. YMMV.

 

[Cinder]

Stewie isn't going to deny that IGF-1 stimulates growth. He wouldn't do it before and he won't do it now. He's not dumb...and quite frankly, with the new research showing that the GH molecule itself also plays a role n muscle growth (which adpolice posted and which I have been citing for about 2 years now), don't expect any help from him.

You're still talking?
You said hgh builds muscle and I said it didn't. That aas is building the muscle and hgh is "helping"
And hello Rambo just said the same thing pretty much and that other stuff is doing so while hgh is the topping on a cake or whatever lol. At least that's what it sounded like. He said you're not gonna build muscle just by being on hgh.
And stewie said the same thing hence why I wanted him to chime in. Sit down already, you just get mad at those who know you're a fraud.

 

[thethinker48]

You're still talking?
You said hgh builds muscle and I said it didn't. That aas is building the muscle and hgh is "helping"
And hello Rambo just said the same thing pretty much and that other stuff is doing so while hgh is the topping on a cake or whatever lol. At least that's what it sounded like. He said you're not gonna build muscle just by being on hgh.
And stewie said the same thing hence why I wanted him to chime in. Sit down already, you just get mad at those who know you're a fraud.

I don't think anyone is arguing that hgh will build majority of the muscle on a bodybuilder, steroids will do that undoubtedly. It's a different pathway for growth, and a definitive aid to steroids. Allows you to eat more without getting fatter, induces lypolisis, helps sleep/mood, and most importantly help you recover from taxing workouts.

Do you honestly think a straight shooter like Dorian Yates, who discarded anything that didn't produce results would attribute his additional growth to GH if it didn't work? That it helped him recover and added another level of development on top of steroids.

And the argument against intramuscular water retention is pretty vague, ALL steroids to some degree will cause intramuscular glycogen storage and water retention, a giant portion of your body composition is water, why would having additional water in the muscle be just cosmetic and useless? If we were to only count steroid induced muscle growth in terms of sheer muscle fiber, and not the additional ability to store glycogen and water as a result of that muscle fiber, we'd all be 30-50 lbs smaller. We aren't granite statues (maybe John Meadows but hes an exception[emoji3] ), it's a living body that requires and is made up quite a bit of water.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[flex22]

I stay away from arguments but do enjoy reading this thread. I have taken nutropin AQ which is US pharma at 7iu for almost a year and I was obv also using Anabolics. Do you know where I got my nutropin from? A person who had it prescribed by a legit Doctor because he was way behind on the growth curve for teenagers. I believe he was about 12-14 at the time. He was prescribed it because of what it does. Help the body grow. Like someone mentioned earlier. It's prescribed worldwide for growth deficiency. And has been for many years now. Why wouldn't it work or why someone wouldn't believe it actual helps grow muscle tisssue is beyond me. But everyone is allowed their opinion. So to each their own