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Advice from guys that compete; Is "bulking" necessary?

alpha6164

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The title pretty much says it. Do you have to "bulk up" as in gain fat to also add lean mass? I see guys gain large amounts of weight and of course look soft and flabby and then have to cut to look lean again. Is it possible to gain that net lean mass without gaining all the fat? I ask because i am 5'5" and 175lbs and about ~10% BF. I would love to be 185 and just as lean. I eat clean 90% of the time. In order for me to gain that 10lbs of lean mass is it mandatory to take in so much calorie that i have to end up at 200lb and have to cut back to 185? I hope my question makes sense. I am just worried about eating everything under the sun to gain "weight" and just end up flabby and soft instead of just slowly gaining lean mass without having to "bulk" up.
 
I've read about 'mini-cuts' that have worked well in order to keep fat gain at bay.

Eating a caloric surplus for 6-8 weeks
Eating a caloric deficit for 2-3 weeks

Arbitrarily-

6 lbs gain
4 lbs loss

2 lbs net

Other than that, I don't see why 'reverse-dieting' isn't possible? It's just a matter of increasing your calories slowly instead of bolus intake in order to gain as much weight as possible.

Edit: I have also had success with decreasing carbohydrates on days that I don't train to keep fat gain minimal.
 
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Getting fat doesn't help add muscle.

But fear of getting soft is why a lot of guys look the same year after year after year.
 
Getting fat doesn't help add muscle.

But fear of getting soft is why a lot of guys look the same year after year after year.


So what do you recommend Shelby? So are you saying you basically have to gain some fat to gain lean mass?
 
He isn't saying get fat.

You have to eat the food to grow the tissue but you have to eat right so you don't get clearly fat. Some people have such a fear of water weight or the appearance of being soft that they don't do what is needed in the diet area to gain. I'm guilty of putting on too much fat but that is because I go wrong on eating the clean foods. I have never got fat from eating larger amounts of the right nutrition. I have however got fat from trying to bulk with the wrong nutritional approach.
 
So what do you recommend Shelby? So are you saying you basically have to gain some fat to gain lean mass?

Depends on the individual situation - the individual's metabolism, how much weight they are looking to gain (do they need to move up a weight class or two?), when are they competing next, etc.

There isn't "one" answer here. You should never get so soft that you can't at least see a faint outline of your abs though, and your lower back should stay fairly lean too - no big love handles.

Personal preference also plays a role - if it's psychologically debilitating for you to go over 10% body fat, you're obviously not going to stick with it for very long. Do what you're comfortable with and you can sustain.

This shit takes years.
 
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Get lean and bulk smart. Some people who compete don't get sloppy in the offseason besides the water retention. You'll be a better bodybuilder staying lean year round. Better response to hormones better insulin sensitivity and better chance of keeping most/all muscle when dieting time comes around.
 
seen shelby at massive 240 range offseson. softer? yes. fat? def no.
 
Hey Doc, everyone's different. You have to eat enough extra calories to put on that muscle. If your eating 3ooo calories per day, an extra few hundred calories may be enough to do it.

I personally have to eat some crappy foods like pop tarts and cookies to get the extra calories I need to bulk/gain muscle because I just can't stomach all the clean food I need.

I think it would be a good idea for you to get up to 200 then back it down to a lean 185. That's pretty damn big at 5'5.

I have bulked up the DC way and have tried staying lean year round, and they both work. I just don't like looking sloppy in the off season anymore.
 
bulk up 25 lbs and diet down to gain a net 5lbs of lean muscle...or increase clean calories just enough to gain 5 lbs of lean mass over time. i'll take the latter, more solid gains and far heathier.
 
Over the years I have bulked less and less, when I was younger I put on 60lbs and then dieted like a nut case to get it back off, as I got older/wiser and my metabolism wasnt the same 20 yr old metabolism I learned to keep myu bulking bf% with in an acceptable range.
I also started doing cardio year round, and kept the foods somewhat identical to what I would eat when dieting and kept junk food to a 1 meal a week maximum....just as a cheat meal on diet.
Eating clean has been the biggest thing for me when adding size, now I can add a good chunk with out being a chunk.
I like the feeling of getting bigger and stronger and the funny thing is after a time and eating that much clean food per day I actually start too look forward to dieting and feeling hungrier between meals.
 
I think its a lot easier to gain mass and stay lean when youre "enhanced". Things like GH are really going to help. I think part of the answer to your question lies there.
 
I do things in a similar manner to Shelby. I definitely get soft in the offseason, but not so soft that my abs disappear completely. Gaining a bunch of weight allows me to gain quite a bit a muscle in a short amount of time. In 2010 I competed at 176lbs as a middleweight. In 2011 I was 14lbs heavier, weighing in at 190. This year it looks like it's going to be a tight squeeze to get down to the top of the light-heavies at 198lbs. That's a gain of 22lbs of stage weight in two years. I don't feel that it would have been possible to come even close to this had I stayed hard and lean the whole time.
 
I do things in a similar manner to Shelby. I definitely get soft in the offseason, but not so soft that my abs disappear completely. Gaining a bunch of weight allows me to gain quite a bit a muscle in a short amount of time. In 2010 I competed at 176lbs as a middleweight. In 2011 I was 14lbs heavier, weighing in at 190. This year it looks like it's going to be a tight squeeze to get down to the top of the light-heavies at 198lbs. That's a gain of 22lbs of stage weight in two years. I don't feel that it would have been possible to come even close to this had I stayed hard and lean the whole time.






That is pretty impressive. How many calories above your BMR were you consuming during your "bulk" season and what ratios of macros if you mind sharing?
 
That is pretty impressive. How many calories above your BMR were you consuming during your "bulk" season and what ratios of macros if you mind sharing?

Alpha your a smart bro..

Keep your protein at a set amount and toggle your Carbs and fat amounts to what works for you..

if you stall up the macro (carb or fat) that you do well with as it varies for everyone

a good way to keep fat off is lower calories on off days (from either carbs or fat)

another option is to use a calorie cycle from again the macro that suits you best

hypothetical example ::

your 175

MP1
animal protein 2x bw 350g
starch carbs 2x bw 350g
fats .5 90g

3600

MP2
animal protein 2x bw350g
starch carbs 3x bw 525g
fats .5bw 90

4300

MP3
animal protein 2x bw 350g
starch carb 1xbw 175g
fats .5 bw 90g

2900

its as simple going just toggling those days

ex
Monday back MP1,
Tuesaday Arms MP1
Wednesday LegsMP2
Thursday Rest MP1 (if gaining too quickly go with MP3)
Friday chest/shoulders MP2
Saturday Traps/lowback/ abs MP1
Sunday rest MP1 (if gaining to quickly go with MP3)

if stall then incorporate more MP2 days,,, when all workout days are MP2 days then adjust all meal plans again with higher carb or fat intake and restart the process

I personally dont use cheat meals but Im not a fuckin mass monster like some freaks on this board who need and others who are on the short end of the stick with a lightning metabolism...

Just keep it simple and progressively change little things,, just listen to your body
 
i like this question, ive wondered the same thing. like, what's the highest percentage fat y'all would be comfortable holding, or getting to, while gaining?
tho im guessing this answer is genetics-related also.
 
I really don't care if I look softer anyway....I like being big...I don't feel big when I'm shredded, at all, I have trouble dieting the last bit because of it. Now when I'm a solid heavyweight shredded, it may be different, I dunno.

When I'm not contest dieting, I could really give two shits less what I look like anyway, other people's opinions don't matter to me and never have. BUT, I have always noticed that I get a lot more female attention when I'm bulked up a bit....maybe because I don't look QUITE as scary, I dunno....in fact, I've never even gotten laid when I've been lean, or close to it.
 
That is pretty impressive. How many calories above your BMR were you consuming during your "bulk" season and what ratios of macros if you mind sharing?

At my highest point this year I was around 5000 kcal per day. 400p/400c/200f split into 6 meals would be a pretty common day, though some are higher in carbs. I make sure to eat this much in clean food and I do tend to have a few treats per week on top of it. 3500 is pretty close to maintenance for me unless I'm in a blast, in which case my body can handle a bit more.
 
I think its a lot easier to gain mass and stay lean when youre "enhanced". Things like GH are really going to help. I think part of the answer to your question lies there.

Something here must make a big difference that I as of yet don't use, I suspect copious amounts of GH, because.....the pros, don't get fat lol.

I do things in a similar manner to Shelby. I definitely get soft in the offseason, but not so soft that my abs disappear completely. Gaining a bunch of weight allows me to gain quite a bit a muscle in a short amount of time. In 2010 I competed at 176lbs as a middleweight. In 2011 I was 14lbs heavier, weighing in at 190. This year it looks like it's going to be a tight squeeze to get down to the top of the light-heavies at 198lbs. That's a gain of 22lbs of stage weight in two years. I don't feel that it would have been possible to come even close to this had I stayed hard and lean the whole time.

That's about what I do, I eat relatively clean (when I'm by myself and away from the family I almost never eat out, one true cheat meal a week that I make)....but I do eat A LOT....but the last few years I've kept my top four abs at least visible 98% of the time
 
itrain,

i appreciate that and like that idea. I currently take 250gr of protein, 200g of carbs and 50 grams of healthy fats daily so most ~2300 calories daily is not enough to add lean mass my BMR is ~1700 cal x 1.5 (moderate active) so we are talking roughly 2500 calories to keep weight as it is so most likely the reason why i am stuck lol
 

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