After fasted morning cardio, best post workout meal??

[GimmeCombs]

Says the guy who just stated your body burns fat all the time IRREGARDLESS (LOL good english) of glucose and insulin.

What exactly does irregardless mean? Is that like regardless of all regard? LOL

 

[ajdos]

You mean regardless?

Don't come at me with your ignorance. I haven't attacked you at all but look at your post just now. Is it that time of the month?

You cannot burn fat when insulin is present. I'm not going to say it again.. so learn or don't.

Oh so I spelled something wrong now and IM ignorant?

Again, Im losing fat Knight, plenty of it in fact- so it must be some fluke...OMG did I spell something wrong again lmao!
You have made a career of trying to belittle people on this forum, its all your good at.

I have learned plenty, and I have learned that if you think that you have it all figure out then thats fine buddy boy.

And Im QUITE clear on when your body can and cannot burn bodyfat. Seeing as I have done this whole dieting thing a couple times.
My whole point has been all along, if you actually read the replies, that I burn the bodyfat, then I feed the muscles.
You want to do whatever it is you do, then fine, I respect that, not once have I attacked your method, however you have sniped my posts and nickel and dimed me all through this thread because I have simply maintained that you are talking about one method, and Im saying its not for everyone and some of us need to do something else and get better results doing it another way.
I am not arguing the point that glucose stops fat burning at that point, however your body burns fat all through the day if the carbs are kept low enough REGARDLESS of if you ATE A BIG MEAL AFTER FASTED CARDIO OR NOT.
Its funny here I am doing exactly what I have been posting and Im losing a shit ton of bodyfat...so I must be ignorant - because what I am doing is working? oh Im ignorant because I wont agree that your method is top dog.
Oh well, sorry.
I apologize truly...guess its a character flaw.

 

[ajdos]

Says the guy who just stated your body burns fat all the time IRREGARDLESS (LOL good english) of glucose and insulin.

Ah yes, spelling bee on the bodybuilding board, you know its funny when guys run out of intelligent things to debate with this is usually the thing they want to fall back on.
Knight you are plenty smart guy, but you seem hardheaded as hell and from the get go are arguing with me needlessly I never said you didnt burn fat or that eating carbs doesnt interrupt the fat burning process.
What I said is for some of us that method doesnt work as well, so since you seem to have figured out the almighty best way, be on your way with it.
If thats what works best for you then fine...its not what works best for me, I've only been doing this a couple months or so, but I think I know a bit about how to manage a diet.
But really, thanks for the input.

BTW let me ask you something...since we are talking about buring fat being 'stopped' by insulin or glucose, how much impact do you think say 15 gr of complex carb has on that?
I mean how long do you think your bodies fat burning process is supressed?
An hour? 2 hours? 3??
Im just wondering what you think.

 

[Knight9]

You've actually started attacking me. I haven't done shit in this thread except state and defend my opinions with sound reasoning. You on the other hand have, resorted to making this personal and then tried to convince yourself and others that you are not the one firing the shots. LOL!

You're not ignorant because you spelled something wrong. You used a word that doesn't exist. That's not a spelling error. Add that to the attacking and shitty attitude you have developed in this discussion and THERE YA GO...


I have no clue about your question...guess I should stop doing diets and training now and give my clients refunds.[emoji23]

 

[ajdos]

You've actually started attacking me. I haven't done shit in this thread except state and defend my opinions with sound reasoning. You on the other hand have, resorted to making this personal and then tried to convince yourself and others that you are not the one firing the shots. LOL!

You're not ignorant because you spelled something wrong. You used a word that doesn't exist. That's not a spelling error. Add that to the attacking and shitty attitude you have developed in this discussion and THERE YA GO...


I have no clue about your question...guess I should stop doing diets and training now and give my clients refunds.[emoji23]

Nah thats just a kettle call right there, I used some slang ass word like a thousand other people do and thats all you can come up with?
See you just dodge any legit question but your quick to take shots at me, cal me 'ignorant' which I have not once made any comments to that effect with you.
I have simply stood my ground that there are several methods, thats all, and that the method Im using is working and that I wouldnt do what you do, AND that if you feel so inclined to do that to keep your fat burning rolling along then please, by all means do so.
This is hardly personal, dont try to give your insults any more credit than they deserve.
Im a passionate person about what I do, no matter how bad my English, spelling or grammar is.
This after all a bodybuilding forum not a paper Im writing for a college class.

Im done with this argument I have repeated myself about 15 times in this thread, if you dont get what Im saying by now you never eva will.

 

[Knight9]

Cool deal. I'm pretty disappointed in you. Sticking up for you in the past and thinking you were a bit more sensible and respectful than you truly are. Have a good life.

Maybe you'd be more pleasant if you took those carbs from your first meal and put them in your last meal. Instead of bragging about your 15g of complex carbs..increase your serotonin before bed, get better sleep, and be a more pleasant person. Then burn fat for as long as possible after your workout. There are other reasons for not consuming carbs in the morning, but I'll spare you the pain of gaining knowledge.

The point is...if you are truly doing this for ultimate fat loss and maybe a show...you're not doing it right in many people's eyes. The end.

 

[NY Muscle]

Lots of good info here but some points need to be made.

You aren't going to lose muscle just by going a few hours in the morning without carbs even if you do fasted cardio. Most of the people who feel you will lose muscle are just assuming because those same people are too paranoid to attempt it.

Is having carbs before or after fasted cardio ideal if your goal is fat loss? Of course not and that's not up for discussion. Will you still drop fat? Sure.

Can you lose fat if you have carbs and/or bccas pre and post fasted cardio? Sure.
You ARE burning calories in case we all forgot because you ARE doing cardio. So at the end of the week if the calories you burn put you in the proper deficit then yes you will be losing weight/fat.

Lots of guys who diet and their biceps shrink (seems to be the broscience indicator of muscle loss) are actually losing intramuscular fat as well as losing the constant bloat/pump from glycogen. You aren't shrinking because you didn't eat carbs since the night before.

Also perioids of detraining then periods of extreme training and attention to diet make all of what I said above irrelevant.

Aj, you look great in your before and after pics but I think you are experiencing just that (you were away from the gym for a while you said and minimal food to maintain muscle) and when your body normalizes and you are on the level as some of the typical dieting gym goer you will probably change your opinion on the carbs around cardio. I could be wrong if you are in the 5% with an elite metabolism.

I experienced a similar thing as you. Came back to training after a 5 year lay off lost 30lbs of fat and gained a few inches on my biceps...my broscience indicator of muscle gain .... and I did zero cardio. This was in a 6 month period. From muscle memory is was like 80% back to previous size and condition which btw was aided with aas. I was natural for those 6 months that I lost fat and gained muscle.

I was beyond amazed what muscle memory can do. Also keep in mind I had one too many cheat meals and carbs and the fat still came off me. When the time came that I needed cardio to keep progressing then things changed. Diet got even cleaner and no carbs before and an hour or 2 post cardio otherwise results stalled.

Aj if I am wrong that this period of fat loss and muscle gain was not part of that time you got back in shape from the long lay off then I apologize and disregard




Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

 

[ajdos]

Cool deal. I'm pretty disappointed in you. Sticking up for you in the past and thinking you were a bit more sensible and respectful than you truly are. Have a good life.

Maybe you'd be more pleasant if you took those carbs from your first meal and put them in your last meal. Instead of bragging about your 15g of complex carbs..increase your serotonin before bed, get better sleep, and be a more pleasant person. Then burn fat for as long as possible after your workout. There are other reasons for not consuming carbs in the morning, but I'll spare you the pain of gaining knowledge.

The point is...if you are truly doing this for ultimate fat loss and maybe a show...you're not doing it right in many people's eyes. The end.

Mkaay Knight, I mean you are a plenty smart dood, but I never once called you any names or anything even approaching that, I think its funny you act 'dissapointed' in me.

I simply disagreed with you and you basically tried to infer that I am some clueless moron who somehow has just gotten lucky for 25 years to get where I am physique wise.

But thanks for the education I guess...really, its a Hallmark moment for me.

Lots of good info here but some points need to be made.

You aren't going to lose muscle just by going a few hours in the morning without carbs even if you do fasted cardio. Most of the people who feel you will lose muscle are just assuming because those same people are too paranoid to attempt it.

Is having carbs before or after fasted cardio ideal if your goal is fat loss? Of course not and that's not up for discussion. Will you still drop fat? Sure.

Can you lose fat if you have carbs and/or bccas pre and post fasted cardio? Sure.
You ARE burning calories in case we all forgot because you ARE doing cardio. So at the end of the week if the calories you burn put you in the proper deficit then yes you will be losing weight/fat.

Lots of guys who diet and their biceps shrink (seems to be the broscience indicator of muscle loss) are actually losing intramuscular fat as well as losing the constant bloat/pump from glycogen. You aren't shrinking because you didn't eat carbs since the night before.

Also perioids of detraining then periods of extreme training and attention to diet make all of what I said above irrelevant.

Aj, you look great in your before and after pics but I think you are experiencing just that (you were away from the gym for a while you said and minimal food to maintain muscle) and when your body normalizes and you are on the level as some of the typical dieting gym goer you will probably change your opinion on the carbs around cardio. I could be wrong if you are in the 5% with an elite metabolism.

I experienced a similar thing as you. Came back to training after a 5 year lay off lost 30lbs of fat and gained a few inches on my biceps...my broscience indicator of muscle gain .... and I did zero cardio. This was in a 6 month period. From muscle memory is was like 80% back to previous size and condition which btw was aided with aas. I was natural for those 6 months that I lost fat and gained muscle.

I was beyond amazed what muscle memory can do. Also keep in mind I had one too many cheat meals and carbs and the fat still came off me. When the time came that I needed cardio to keep progressing then things changed. Diet got even cleaner and no carbs before and an hour or 2 post cardio otherwise results stalled.

Aj if I am wrong that this period of fat loss and muscle gain was not part of that time you got back in shape from the long lay off then I apologize and disregard




Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

NY I appreciate your response, that was well thought out dood.
Maybe you are right, sounds like you are talking from experience. For me this is not the first time I have done this -this way.
I actually tried a similar diet with cardio performed AM fasted and pm before bed and didnt get carbs after the first cardio and no food whatsoever after the second cardio.
Came in to my show 7 lbs lighter, less bodyfat, but also way drawn and couldnt carb up, that was 2005.
2006 I came in fuller and harder but still flat. So we added more carbs to the eqaution and I came in later that year 15 lbs bigger and just as hard.
Thats when I was sold on the idea I needed more carbs, I have a friend who loeses bodyfat on 500 gr of carbs a day!
Genetics make a difference, I wouldnt classify myself as a 5% elite metabolism but I have a good one, and a strange one.
Although I was underfed in prison, I did manage to workout somewhat, it was just much more difficult using shit we fashioned from cinder blocks, milk crates and fence poles. I managed to eat a decent amount of protein the big problem was having to eat that horse shit in the chow hall, fattening shit.
Perhaps that is some of whats happening to me NY, ultimately who knows.
I try to look at things from a number of perspectives, and I do see what you guys are saying and most of it is things I have read about or experienced to some degree or another.
Just for now, this is where I am at with my diet. And you are right -perhaps in the future Ill try and go back to some system with no carbs post cardio.
But for now with it working as well as it has in the past and the present, I have to stick to not fixing something that isnt broke.
Thankyou for the respectful reply.

 

[G.I.Bro]

Ajdos and Knight9: you are both way too experienced, informed and cool to be arguing with each other like this. I don't even like seeing it. I'm not sure you guys even really disagree on the essentials. I think Adjos is just syaing despite insulin's effects, people can and still do get lean as hell eating carbs pre/intra/post cardio. There is more than one way to skin a cat and we are highlighting the hyper-technically "most efficient" way.

I think we all agree what role insulin plays. But I think we all also know you can get ripped, shredded and grainy eating carbs constantly, pre cardio, and any other time - many do it. I just wanted to make a distinction clear that some people don't seem to understand about taking EAA/BCAA in a fasted state then considering their A.M. cardio after that consumption fasted with spiked insulin. Just not hormonally accurate. You have reduced lipolysis with the introduction of the insulinogenic BCAA. Again, a 10-15g BCAA drink has the payload almost identical to drinking pure glucose.

I dont know about you guys, but I need all the help I can get. If im paying for good GH to help mobilize/free up FFA and doing fasted early A.M. cardio to burn it, I want my insulin nice and quiet so lipolysis can be maximized. I further want to stay in this state about 2 hours after (and let the GH peak keep rolling) before I spike my insulin.

 

[hilly2008]

You mean regardless?

Don't come at me with your ignorance. I haven't attacked you at all but look at your post just now. Is it that time of the month?

You cannot burn fat when insulin is present. I'm not going to say it again.. so learn or don't.

Surely if that was the case those that eat carbs with every meal couldnt get lean.

I did my first show under Alex a having carbs in first 5 meals of the day. The diet never changed just cardio in the am increased

How did u loose fat ??/ I used instant honey oats

 

[ryanbCXG]

And some of you conversely are scared shitless of some glucose or insulin.
Oh yeah I see this is one of those threads now where someone just haassss to be right.
Its funny to me I know a couple guys doing it one way and maybe one doing it the other, the only difference between the two is the carb guys are fuller and a bit bigger.
I dunno maybe its just me and this is supposed to be bodybuilding not just bodystarving.
Of course that is MY opinion and I would never say 'hey there is only one correct method' in bodybuildingt there are no absolutes and anyone who tells you there is, just showed how little they understand about it.
And btw for some of this right now this game doesnt have the benefit of anabolics, they let you do those kind of diets and help keep you anti-catabolic.
Try it without it, tell us the results you get then....not saying I know what they will be, but I bet they'll be different.
Gear makes a big difference in the diet game anyone who denies that is lying to themselves.

Can only commment on myself but i did hybrid of alternate day fasting. Workout day was my anabolic day but only started and ended from 3pm-9pm then I would fast. Do cardio around 12pm the next day (easy walking or elyptical) at 8pm or so Id have 100g of pro. Repeat with a workout anabolic period the next day 3-9. Did that for 2.5 weeks. more for giggles and testing out principals.....it worked well. Hit a DL and squat PR at the end of 2.5 weeks after a 36hr fast (wanted to end with extra fun lol) and dropped 1.5 inches off my waist (didnt have that much to lose to start) and lost 8lbs total. So the recomp was quite nice.

 

[ryanbCXG]

Lots of good info here but some points need to be made.

You aren't going to lose muscle just by going a few hours in the morning without carbs even if you do fasted cardio. Most of the people who feel you will lose muscle are just assuming because those same people are too paranoid to attempt it.

Is having carbs before or after fasted cardio ideal if your goal is fat loss? Of course not and that's not up for discussion. Will you still drop fat? Sure.

Can you lose fat if you have carbs and/or bccas pre and post fasted cardio? Sure.
You ARE burning calories in case we all forgot because you ARE doing cardio. So at the end of the week if the calories you burn put you in the proper deficit then yes you will be losing weight/fat.

Lots of guys who diet and their biceps shrink (seems to be the broscience indicator of muscle loss) are actually losing intramuscular fat as well as losing the constant bloat/pump from glycogen. You aren't shrinking because you didn't eat carbs since the night before.

Also perioids of detraining then periods of extreme training and attention to diet make all of what I said above irrelevant.

Aj, you look great in your before and after pics but I think you are experiencing just that (you were away from the gym for a while you said and minimal food to maintain muscle) and when your body normalizes and you are on the level as some of the typical dieting gym goer you will probably change your opinion on the carbs around cardio. I could be wrong if you are in the 5% with an elite metabolism.

I experienced a similar thing as you. Came back to training after a 5 year lay off lost 30lbs of fat and gained a few inches on my biceps...my broscience indicator of muscle gain .... and I did zero cardio. This was in a 6 month period. From muscle memory is was like 80% back to previous size and condition which btw was aided with aas. I was natural for those 6 months that I lost fat and gained muscle.

I was beyond amazed what muscle memory can do. Also keep in mind I had one too many cheat meals and carbs and the fat still came off me. When the time came that I needed cardio to keep progressing then things changed. Diet got even cleaner and no carbs before and an hour or 2 post cardio otherwise results stalled.

Aj if I am wrong that this period of fat loss and muscle gain was not part of that time you got back in shape from the long lay off then I apologize and disregard




Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

Sound well articulated post

 

[ajdos]

Can only commment on myself but i did hybrid of alternate day fasting. Workout day was my anabolic day but only started and ended from 3pm-9pm then I would fast. Do cardio around 12pm the next day (easy walking or elyptical) at 8pm or so Id have 100g of pro. Repeat with a workout anabolic period the next day 3-9. Did that for 2.5 weeks. more for giggles and testing out principals.....it worked well. Hit a DL and squat PR at the end of 2.5 weeks after a 36hr fast (wanted to end with extra fun lol) and dropped 1.5 inches off my waist (didnt have that much to lose to start) and lost 8lbs total. So the recomp was quite nice.

So if I understand you, you did more carbs on the workout days then zero'd out on the non workout days? Just making sure I read your post accurately.

That sounds like an interesting approach.

 

[STTM]

Well, this thread alone caused me to go out and buy a good amount of EAA's. Going to start incorporating those during the times I do fasted cardio. Maybe this is the answer I have been looking for, and I will finally look like Zyzz.

I would also like to add that arguments/debates are very good.. and bring on a lot of different opinions and info. But when it gets to the point where you are nit picking at someones spelling or grammatical errors, instead debating the topic at hand.. then it is time to check yourself. Must be the Clomid talking or something..

 

[ryanbCXG]

So if I understand you, you did more carbs on the workout days then zero'd out on the non workout days? Just making sure I read your post accurately.

That sounds like an interesting approach.

Yes sir. I was still close to maintenance to slightly over, on the workout days but mostly carb pro was about 1.5x bw and fat was kept low, with a 18ish hour fast leading up to it. And then an almost 24hr fast the next day with some light carido for 45 min or so and semi moderate activity throughout the day. 100g of pro so a protein modified fast.

 

[ajdos]

Yes sir. I was still close to maintenance to slightly over, on the workout days but mostly carb pro was about 1.5x bw and fat was kept low, with a 18ish hour fast leading up to it. And then an almost 24hr fast the next day with some light carido for 45 min or so and semi moderate activity throughout the day. 100g of pro so a protein modified fast.

How did you feel on those fasted days?

I have to answer a lot of questions and deal with customers on my job, if I was fasted I dont know how well my grey matter would work.
Do you find it effects your mental performance being fasted for that long?

 

[b_chest31]

Okay to clarify. I shouldn't drink bcaa's before my fasted workout because they spike insulin? Does it matter if I have a pre-workout stimulus with them? Also would straight Eaa's work better?

Thanks

 

[275bills]

Eat and workout...

 

[biffnbash]

Ajdos and Knight9[/U][/B]: you are both way too experienced, informed and cool to be arguing with each other like this. I don't even like seeing it. I'm not sure you guys even really disagree on the essentials. I think Adjos is just syaing despite insulin's effects, people can and still do get lean as hell eating carbs pre/intra/post cardio. There is more than one way to skin a cat and we are highlighting the hyper-technically "most efficient" way.

I think we all agree what role insulin plays. But I think we all also know you can get ripped, shredded and grainy eating carbs constantly, pre cardio, and any other time - many do it. I just wanted to make a distinction clear that some people don't seem to understand about taking EAA/BCAA in a fasted state then considering their A.M. cardio after that consumption fasted with spiked insulin. Just not hormonally accurate. You have reduced lipolysis with the introduction of the insulinogenic BCAA. Again, a 10-15g BCAA drink has the payload almost identical to drinking pure glucose.

I dont know about you guys, but I need all the help I can get. If im paying for good GH to help mobilize/free up FFA and doing fasted early A.M. cardio to burn it, I want my insulin nice and quiet so lipolysis can be maximized. I further want to stay in this state about 2 hours after (and let the GH peak keep rolling) before I spike my insulin.

Appears there is a recurring incidences here^. Dude must be a joy at parties...

 

[Knight9]

Appears there is a recurring incidences here^. Dude must be a joy at parties...

Do you have anything better to do? Or perhaps a life of some sort? No one really asked you and the fact that there are debates on here is nothing I am going to apologize for...especially when you look back through the tones and shots in this post. Thanks for your very useful post.