AI Dose on Primo

[Wayacrucis]

Hey all. So I know the best way to get this dialed in is to get bloods, but I live in Canada and It isn't possible without a doctor's requisition. My doctor is cool, but he's away for the next 2 weeks. I am in the middle of prep right now, and I am taking 100mg Test P ED and 100mg Primo ED.

I've had plenty of bloodwork on high Testosterone only cycles. On about 700-1000mg Test per week, I need 12.5mg Aromasin ED to keep my estrogen in check. On my cruise of 200mg Test E per week I need 12.5mg Aromasin 2 times per week to keep estrogen in check. By in check, I mean in the general normal range, not low normal and not high normal either.

So since Primo drivers down E2 and I know that I regularly need 12.5mg Aromasin ED to keep my estro in check at 700mg Test/week, would it be wise to cut my AI dose in half? So 12.5mg Aromasin EOD, while taking 100mg Prop and 100mg Primo ED?

I'll get bloods in about 2 weeks, but I wanted to know if anyone has used Test/Primo at a 1:1 ratio at doses similar to what I am using now and the impact it had on E2.

Thanks guys!

 

[Tomgrass]

What I would do is wait till you see what primo will do. Last thing you want is to be in situation when your estro will be to low. Primo is very potent in keeping you dry. 700 mg is very decent dose of primo. You may found out that you will not need AI at all.

 

[specter]

i aromatize alot and 700mg primo would totally keep my estrogen in check with 700mg test no doubt, i at one point went to 1200mg test e and 1000mg primo and didnt need an AI at all, i did take 20mg nolva to be sure my tits didnt get fucked.

 

[specter]

When im cruising on 200mg test only my tits start to tickle.

 

[xpoc]

Heck I took 200 mgs of primo per week and it erased any trace of my estrogen. It literally was undetectable.

 

[pickapeck]

When im cruising on 200mg test only my tits start to tickle.

Yeah, me too. I add in 100 mg of Primo and no problems at all. I would nearly say that Primo is a more safe and effective AI than the whole gambit of AIs available. But if I said that Astra Zeneca and Novartis would have me deplatformed.

 

[LATS]

In regards to estro levels on test dosage.. if you have elevated test dosage then you should have elevated estro numbers.. its about a ratio .. not a set number.. do not try and have normal range estro numbers when test numbers are in supra levels..
People overuse AI.. AI have a accumulated effect.. numbers may look " good" at three weeks. But at 6 weeks they are tanked.. this is extremely common..
But again, for health purposes ( hdl and lipids markers) you should not have estro in normal range if your test level is 1800 or higher..
In regards to primo .. yes.. it can lower estro .. the significance can only be determined by blood work and if you have real primo.. but as I stated people need to not fear estro levels so much with highly elevated test.. your body needs a balance. Use AI only if symptoms rear its ugly head

 

[Mufasa123]

This is a wild guess but being a decent aromatizer and needing a small dose of AI even on 200mg of test (cruise) I'll venture 1:1 test to primo will have you near normal but probably high end of range or just outside. That's where it would put me. I'd first and foremost be doing bloods but I'd estimate 6.25 to 12.5mg of aromasin 2x a week would nail it down. Wild guess and based on my own experience.

 

[Wayacrucis]

This is a wild guess but being a decent aromatizer and needing a small dose of AI even on 200mg of test (cruise) I'll venture 1:1 test to primo will have you near normal but probably high end of range or just outside. That's where it would put me. I'd first and foremost be doing bloods but I'd estimate 6.25 to 12.5mg of aromasin 2x a week would nail it down. Wild guess and based on my own experience.

I think you're likely right.

So the issue is that I am super gyno prone, so I have to be very careful. I added 100mg of Primo/week to my cruise of 200mg/Test E per week and pulled blood about 3-4 weeks in (with no AI). My Estradiol came back at 188. There was no reference range, they just had it at <162 as normal. So I was about 10% higher than high normal.

That's running a 2:1 ratio of Test to Primo.

What's even more complicated is that we don't even have sensitive estradiol testing in Canada, so this is the standard Estradiol test....which is said to not be all that accurate. I was feeling my nipples itch though, so my e2 was def higher than it should have been when I had pulls taken on the 2:1 ratio of Test to primo cruise.

 

[Reno911]

But again, for health purposes ( hdl and lipids markers) you should not have estro in normal range if your test level is 1800 or higher..
In regards to primo .. yes.. it can lower estro .. the significance can only be determined by blood work and if you have real primo..

This ^^^^^^

 

[Reno911]

Personally 1 to 1 Test & Primo would tank my estrogen. Keep an eye on labs and adjust ratios as needed to find your sweet spot.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

In regards to estro levels on test dosage.. if you have elevated test dosage then you should have elevated estro numbers.. its about a ratio .. not a set number.. do not try and have normal range estro numbers when test numbers are in supra levels..
People overuse AI.. AI have a accumulated effect.. numbers may look " good" at three weeks. But at 6 weeks they are tanked.. this is extremely common..
But again, for health purposes ( hdl and lipids markers) you should not have estro in normal range if your test level is 1800 or higher..
In regards to primo .. yes.. it can lower estro .. the significance can only be determined by blood work and if you have real primo.. but as I stated people need to not fear estro levels so much with highly elevated test.. your body needs a balance. Use AI only if symptoms rear its ugly head

100% agree. Definitely always looked at the test to estro ratio more than just the number. If I'm not using any AAS and my Test Total is 500ng/dL than an estrogen level of 35pg/mL is fine. But if my TT is 1750ng/dL and my estrogen is 35pg/mL than that would be pretty unusual. At the higher level of T if my estrogen is at 75 or 85pg/mL, I don't worry about it until there are at least some symptoms. As a result, I don't even really watch my estrogen levels that closely anymore but rather watch my body for symptoms.

Even then, if symptoms do arise only the tiniest amount of most AI's is all that is req'd. The only exceptions are for those that hold very large amounts of water, are very estrogen sensitive, or those that are prepping for a competition.

 

[xpoc]

In regards to estro levels on test dosage.. if you have elevated test dosage then you should have elevated estro numbers.. its about a ratio .. not a set number.. do not try and have normal range estro numbers when test numbers are in supra levels..
People overuse AI.. AI have a accumulated effect.. numbers may look " good" at three weeks. But at 6 weeks they are tanked.. this is extremely common..
But again, for health purposes ( hdl and lipids markers) you should not have estro in normal range if your test level is 1800 or higher..
In regards to primo .. yes.. it can lower estro .. the significance can only be determined by blood work and if you have real primo.. but as I stated people need to not fear estro levels so much with highly elevated test.. your body needs a balance. Use AI only if symptoms rear its ugly head

I don't know the science behind it, but this statement makes total sense to me. Too often, we try to outthink the human body. If we add a bunch of exogenous test, the body responds by trying to balance things out.

 

[Mufasa123]

I think you're likely right.

So the issue is that I am super gyno prone, so I have to be very careful. I added 100mg of Primo/week to my cruise of 200mg/Test E per week and pulled blood about 3-4 weeks in (with no AI). My Estradiol came back at 188. There was no reference range, they just had it at <162 as normal. So I was about 10% higher than high normal.

That's running a 2:1 ratio of Test to Primo.

What's even more complicated is that we don't even have sensitive estradiol testing in Canada, so this is the standard Estradiol test....which is said to not be all that accurate. I was feeling my nipples itch though, so my e2 was def higher than it should have been when I had pulls taken on the 2:1 ratio of Test to primo cruise.

I'll give you my best thinking in the context of my previous post with the addition of your above info specifically where you came in before and that you are very gyno prone.

1) It's important to realize that the regular E2 vs sensitive E2 is that sensitive E2 is more consistent and accurate for lower numbers like a man's (say sub 50). Meaning if regular E2 test comes in way high...you ARE high (though tren and deca can screw this test specifically but not running those this is very valid). I think it's also good enough to where if you are shown to be in middle of normal range...you ARE in normal range. Where it fails is E2 in the single digits or knowing if at a REAL 20 you post a 25 or 15 or even a bit wider...no confidence there and you need a sensitive test. For your purposes it's likely good enough. I say this as someone who over a decade+ has gotten 30 or more E2 tests both normal and sensitive, used aromasin extensively, and DHTs. Right now I'm on 500 test, 600 primo, 250 deca and no AI but pending a test next week where I'd expect to add 6.25mg 2x weekly or maybe a bit more depending on the number.

2) Given you are very gyno prone and you posted an outrageously high number on 2:1 ratio with test to primo...running 700 test and 700 primo (1:1) I'd error on the high AI side at 12.5mg of aromasin 2-3x a week and then get some bloods ASAP. Note that we haven't even talked about how sensitive you are to aromasin dosage so I'm really going blind but for past data and established sensitivity to gyno that's probably where I'd start. I'll conclude again with saying you need bloods asap as we are feeling around in the dark or at least very low light.

I hope that helps. Best guess.

 

[LATS]

I don't know the science behind it, but this statement makes total sense to me. Too often, we try to outthink the human body. If we add a bunch of exogenous test, the body responds by trying to balance things out.

Many trt dr will run a ratio.. not a set number.. so if trt puts your test blood level at 600.. then it's plausible to shoot for a e2 of 20 to 40 and make adjustments.. but we are talking supra levels of test.. if your at 2000 blood levels of test and your tanking your e2 ro 35 to try and get to " normal" levels your going to tank hdl and other markers.. thats not healthy.. e2 should be elevated in ratio with test levels.. the use of constant AI to drop estrogen while running supra test levels is a cardiac nightmare. Estro is very protective in regards to joint and cardiac health.. let alone cognitive function.. dont be scared of it.. address it when needed.. but running AI right out of the gate without seeing where estro is even at is asking for issues.. let alone the absolute fact that AI like aromasin and arimidex do come with their own side effects.

 

[Wayacrucis]

I'll give you my best thinking in the context of my previous post with the addition of your above info specifically where you came in before and that you are very gyno prone.

1) It's important to realize that the regular E2 vs sensitive E2 is that sensitive E2 is more consistent and accurate for lower numbers like a man's (say sub 50). Meaning if regular E2 test comes in way high...you ARE high (though tren and deca can screw this test specifically but not running those this is very valid). I think it's also good enough to where if you are shown to be in middle of normal range...you ARE in normal range. Where it fails is E2 in the single digits or knowing if at a REAL 20 you post a 25 or 15 or even a bit wider...no confidence there and you need a sensitive test. For your purposes it's likely good enough. I say this as someone who over a decade+ has gotten 30 or more E2 tests both normal and sensitive, used aromasin extensively, and DHTs. Right now I'm on 500 test, 600 primo, 250 deca and no AI but pending a test next week where I'd expect to add 6.25mg 2x weekly or maybe a bit more depending on the number.

2) Given you are very gyno prone and you posted an outrageously high number on 2:1 ratio with test to primo...running 700 test and 700 primo (1:1) I'd error on the high AI side at 12.5mg of aromasin 2-3x a week and then get some bloods ASAP. Note that we haven't even talked about how sensitive you are to aromasin dosage so I'm really going blind but for past data and established sensitivity to gyno that's probably where I'd start. I'll conclude again with saying you need bloods asap as we are feeling around in the dark or at least very low light.

I hope that helps. Best guess.

I appreciate the input. I called a doc through one of these online consults, and surprisingly there is a lab here that does sensitive E2 but the turn around time is 11 days. So I'll update this soon! Thank you for your insignt.

@LATS I also appreciate your input and but in my case, I can't go with ratios. If my E2 is higher than the ref range, I get gyno. I had gyno surgery and I just can't risk it again. The only solution would be to use a SERM, but they have their own long term consequences as well.

 

[kingpeon]

Yeah, me too. I add in 100 mg of Primo and no problems at all. I would nearly say that Primo is a more safe and effective AI than the whole gambit of AIs available. But if I said that Astra Zeneca and Novartis would have me deplatformed.

makes me wonder if high Primo useage was the reason Arnold never got gyno from his blatant abuse of Dianabol

Primo must be some strong stuff to have the power to knock out that nasty ass Methyl Estradiol!

 

[Mufasa123]

You do realize that if they fully removed the gland via surgery, you can't get gyno again? My understanding, but can't speak to your particular surgery.

I appreciate the input. I called a doc through one of these online consults, and surprisingly there is a lab here that does sensitive E2 but the turn around time is 11 days. So I'll update this soon! Thank you for your insignt.

@LATS I also appreciate your input and but in my case, I can't go with ratios. If my E2 is higher than the ref range, I get gyno. I had gyno surgery and I just can't risk it again. The only solution would be to use a SERM, but they have their own long term consequences as well.

 

[Wayacrucis]

You do realize that if they fully removed the gland via surgery, you can't get gyno again? My understanding, but can't speak to your particular surgery.

Yes I am aware. The full gland wasn't removed. Doc left a bit in there. Told me that concavity would occur if the entire gland were to be removed.

 

[LATS]

I appreciate the input. I called a doc through one of these online consults, and surprisingly there is a lab here that does sensitive E2 but the turn around time is 11 days. So I'll update this soon! Thank you for your insignt.

@LATS I also appreciate your input and but in my case, I can't go with ratios. If my E2 is higher than the ref range, I get gyno. I had gyno surgery and I just can't risk it again. The only solution would be to use a SERM, but they have their own long term consequences as well.

That's fine.. then I would run test low and add other compounds to add to the anabolic effect of the cycle.. but if I had to run protectant because I'm running test high and I'm worried about gyno I'd run a low dose of nolvadex.. its much better at go protection than arimidex and aromasin and at least it's positive in regards to hdl and lipids..