AI use without bloodwork?

[burgundy]

I intend on performing several bulking cycles soon, and I'd like to taper up.

Disregarding health, which is moronic, what can I do to still see optimal gains without the need to see my bloodwork? I don't want too high of estrogen considering all of the side-effects that come with that (especially acne). I realize low-estrogen has issues too, but is there a way to safeguard that whilst guessing my AI dosage?

I'm thinking of something along the lines of 12.5mg of Aromasin EoD, eventually getting up to 30mg of Aromasin, then maybe even to 50mg. I'm going to be tapering up my gear over time in conjunction with this.

Thoughts on this?

 

[burgundy]

I ran testosterone far too high (1g) with minimal to no AI in the past and it ruined my skin for a long while. My skin has finally cleared up except for a few raised scars I incurred from my misuse. Due to that I've been cruising on 600mg of Nandrolone as a base. I don't need to use AI with it, but I realize that I'm going to need to up the dosages in order to grow to the size I want to be, which will definitely require the use of more and other hormones. There's an overly complicated reason I can't get bloodwork. I can explain, but it really isn't worth a long read. In short, the country I'm in would flag me for my use of steroids and it would have plenty of legal repercussions.

 

[LATS]

The less AI the better.. its way over done and the accumulated effect over weeks really starts to build up and tank lipids etc.. estro needs to be a bit higher if test is out of normal range .. its about the ratio more than the numbers..
What dosages are you running?

 

[burgundy]

The less AI the better.. its way over done and the accumulated effect over weeks really starts to build up and tank lipids etc.. estro needs to be a bit higher if test is out of normal range .. its about the ratio more than the numbers..
What dosages are you running?

I'm presently only running 600mg of Nandrolone as a cruise, so I have no AI.

Been out of the gym for months due to Covid. Finally gonna be allowed back in the gyms by the end of this month (hopefully) and looking to start another blast which may include gear that aromatizes more than Nandrolone. Looking to taper up.

I realize less is better in terms of health, but is less better in terms of growth? Would Aromasin be my best bet here?

My ultimate goal is to eventually be 225lb on-stage HW competitor. The heaviest I ever got was 223lbs (but 15% bodyfat) before Covid hit. I've since done plenty of cardio and have shrunk down to 180lbs. Am 5'8-5'9

 

[FrancisK]

So the AI is to prevent acne is that your primary concern? If you’re prone to acne I don’t think the AI is going to just knock it out for you with that much test.

Is there a specific reason you’re opposed to bloodwork?

 

[burgundy]

So the AI is to prevent acne is that your primary concern? If you’re prone to acne I don’t think the AI is going to just knock it out for you with that much test.

Is there a specific reason you’re opposed to bloodwork?

Yes. Mostly because I will absolutely be flagged in my country for getting bloodwork whilst on steroids. I don't wish to face the legal repercussions and not receive life insurance.

 

[FrancisK]

Yes. Mostly because I will absolutely be flagged in my country for getting bloodwork whilst on steroids. I don't wish to face the legal repercussions and not receive life insurance.

Gotchya that’s legit, I’m sure you’ve already tried to get around that to no avail so I’ll spare you the bloodwork spiel.

I’m also prone to acne but not prone to estrogen at all really so I try to use AI’s as little as possible because they can really mess with your body functions as much if not more than anything. I would say if your main concern is the acne then do whatever else you can first before resorting to blindly using AI’s. I don’t want to turn this into an acne thread, there are plenty of those.

 

[LATS]

I can tell you the AI programs you listed above are too aggressive.. but you haven't listed the possible dosages or compounds you'll be using so it's hard to say.. I will agree with above that the estrogen is probably not the cause of your acne.. but androgen levels and dht conversion May be the issue..

As I stated above compounds like aromasin have a significant accumulated effect.. at three weeks they may have your e2 perfect.. at 6 weeks it may be tanked. But almost all AI can have that effect.. on a gram of test you'd be surprised on what just 12.5 mgs twice a week of aromasin can do.. its powerful stuff.. for health issues I'd rather have estro a bit high than low..

 

[burgundy]

Gotchya that’s legit, I’m sure you’ve already tried to get around that to no avail so I’ll spare you the bloodwork spiel.

I’m also prone to acne but not prone to estrogen at all really so I try to use AI’s as little as possible because they can really mess with your body functions as much if not more than anything. I would say if your main concern is the acne then do whatever else you can first before resorting to blindly using AI’s. I don’t want to turn this into an acne thread, there are plenty of those.

I can agree with this. I definitely don't want to abuse AI's. Just I know I've had acne problems in the past for using too little, and so I'm trying to be cautious when it comes to this next cycle. That or perhaps using androgens that seldom aromatize. Not entirely sure what the consensus is on deca base cycles when it comes to this ProMuscle forum.

Hoping to start posting here more often. Truly have a lot of experienced users that are active here (or once were). May start a log of my progress towards trying to compete as a HW. That is, once I can finally get back in the gym and actually add a bit of mass back...

 

[burgundy]

I can tell you the AI programs you listed above are too aggressive.. but you haven't listed the possible dosages or compounds you'll be using so it's hard to say.. I will agree with above that the estrogen is probably not the cause of your acne.. but androgen levels and dht conversion May be the issue..

As I stated above compounds like aromasin have a significant accumulated effect.. at three weeks they may have your e2 perfect.. at 6 weeks it may be tanked. But almost all AI can have that effect.. on a gram of test you'd be surprised on what just 12.5 mgs twice a week of aromasin can do.. its powerful stuff.. for health issues I'd rather have estro a bit high than low..

Yes. They're definitely aggressive.

But I think it's realistic for a goal of bulking up to 245-260lbs for an off-season. The androgens required for something like that (and to still be relatively lean) certainly wouldn't be light.

 

[slesh]

I’m very sensitive when it comes to estrogen and get all the sides as well. Had gyno surgery years ago so I take every precaution to make sure it never comes back. I think that much Asin is overkill. I am on a gram of Test and taking 25mgs of Phizer Asin daily. My E2 came back at 27 which is perfect. Not being able to do bloods is definitely a hinderance. But if you trust your source 25mgs a day is plenty IMO.

 

[LATS]

Yes. They're definitely aggressive.

But I think it's realistic for a goal of bulking up to 245-260lbs for an off-season. The androgens required for something like that (and to still be relatively lean) certainly wouldn't be light.

Maybe.. maybe not.. estro is needed of course for growth.. but your not saying how much you intend to use for your cycle in regards to androgen so no one can give a educated guess yet..

 

[NEMSZ]

I intend on performing several bulking cycles soon, and I'd like to taper up.

Disregarding health, which is moronic, what can I do to still see optimal gains without the need to see my bloodwork? I don't want too high of estrogen considering all of the side-effects that come with that (especially acne). I realize low-estrogen has issues too, but is there a way to safeguard that whilst guessing my AI dosage?

I'm thinking of something along the lines of 12.5mg of Aromasin EoD, eventually getting up to 30mg of Aromasin, then maybe even to 50mg. I'm going to be tapering up my gear over time in conjunction with this.

Thoughts on this?

You lost me in the bolded sentence above….

I get this is a bodybuilding board and people don’t like the preaching so your health is your own business, I’m not the one paying for it, after all.. So I’m not concerned about that..

But you are concerned about wanting to know something that to know most accurately, requires bloodwork, but want to do it without getting bloods….

Why not just get the blood tests?

It’ll cost less than 1/4 of what your cycle is.. And better yet, because you don’t care about health, you can order specific tests like E2 and E2 Sensitive etc etc so you don’t have to be forced to look at anything else that could be going wrong anyway…

It’s a win/win..

 

[burgundy]

Maybe.. maybe not.. estro is needed of course for growth.. but your not saying how much you intend to use for your cycle in regards to androgen so no one can give a educated guess yet..

I don't have an exact protocol laid out. It moreso comes based on what my present physique looks like.

This is all tapering up, I certainly wouldn't start at a maximum dose, but here's a rough guideline:
- Nandrolone Deca (500-2.5g)
- Trenbolone Ace (200-700)
- Equipoise (600-1000)
- Dbol (25-200)
- Anadrol (50-200)
- Humalog (not really relevant here)
- Lantus (not really relevant here)

It's kinda pointless for me to just be philosophizes numbers right now. I weigh 180lbs at the moment and haven't been in the gym in about 15 months due to Covid... I used to weigh 223lbs at 15% and never ran over 1.5g of gear total.

Again, I don't exactly have a defined protocol at the moment. There are too many variables that come into play for that... I'll have to decide that based on the look I have once I have it. Overall, I'm just trying to make clear that I definitely will be pushing the dosages and so my AI use needs to be accounted for if I don't want acne or estro-sides from hell lmao

 

[LATS]

I'll find a study that was done a few years back showing significant bone loss in male bodybuilders using too much AI.. it was from the loss of estro .. it was the side effect from loss of mineral assimilation from the AI .. just another reason to go low on AI or use more compounds that don't convert to estro and use lower estro conversion compounds.. allowing you to use less AI..

 

[burgundy]

You lost me in the bolded sentence above….

I get this is a bodybuilding board and people don’t like the preaching so your health is your own business, I’m not the one paying for it, after all.. So I’m not concerned about that..

But you are concerned about wanting to know something that to know most accurately, requires bloodwork, but want to do it without getting bloods….

Why not just get the blood tests?

It’ll cost less than 1/4 of what your cycle is.. And better yet, because you don’t care about health, you can order specific tests like E2 and E2 Sensitive etc etc so you don’t have to be forced to look at anything else that could be going wrong anyway…

It’s a win/win..

Already answered this. I assure you, I still try to keep my health in-check as much as I can.

Just bloodwork isn't one of those things... I still monitor my blood-pressure and blood-sugar nonetheless. But until a thorough at-home bloodwork kit is invented, and that actually works, I can't see myself getting bloodwork unfortunately. Even though, of course, it would be beneficial to have.

It's not that I don't want it.

 

[burgundy]

I'll find a study that was done a few years back showing significant bone loss in male bodybuilders using too much AI.. it was from the loss of estro .. it was the side effect from loss of mineral assimilation from the AI .. just another reason to go low on AI or use more compounds that don't convert to estro and use lower estro conversion compounds.. allowing you to use less AI..

I agree I definitely think my best course of action is probably to use more compounds that don't convert to estro. It's the healthiest choice, and most likely to prevent acne. I'm not trying to abuse AI haha, I just had absolutely horrible acne sides in the past and I guess I'm overcautious to not have high-estro now because of it.

I appreciate your advice

 

[burgundy]

I’m very sensitive when it comes to estrogen and get all the sides as well. Had gyno surgery years ago so I take every precaution to make sure it never comes back. I think that much Asin is overkill. I am on a gram of Test and taking 25mgs of Phizer Asin daily. My E2 came back at 27 which is perfect. Not being able to do bloods is definitely a hinderance. But if you trust your source 25mgs a day is plenty IMO.

Agreed honestly. 25mgs a day of Aromasin is probably a safe bet. It's all just a guess ultimately.

I think my best bet if I am to run any gear that converts to estrogen signficantly is to run a faster ester of it and to up my AI dosage based on what side-effects I get. Just really ballparking it...

Nonetheless, as a guess, 25mgs a day sounds solid.

 

[NEMSZ]

Already answered this. I assure you, I still try to keep my health in-check as much as I can.

Just bloodwork isn't one of those things... I still monitor my blood-pressure and blood-sugar nonetheless. But until a thorough at-home bloodwork kit is invented, and that actually works, I can't see myself getting bloodwork unfortunately. Even though, of course, it would be beneficial to have.

It's not that I don't want it.

I don’t understand the thinking…. I won’t get into the subject of health, that’s your problem..

But why do you want an at home blood test kit etc??

You only said WHAT you want, not WHY…

I want that too.. Actually, I’ll beat you;

I want a doctor with X-ray vision that can tell me exactly what’s wrong with me just by looking at me and sends me home with a lollipop and a bag of money…

Oh, and a dentist that doesn’t hurt like fuck everytime they go poking around in my mouth…

 

[burgundy]

I don’t understand the thinking…. I won’t get into the subject of health, that’s your problem..

But why do you want an at home blood test kit etc??

You only said WHAT you want, not WHY…

I want that too.. Actually, I’ll beat you;

I want a doctor with X-ray vision that can tell me exactly what’s wrong with me just by looking at me and sends me home with a lollipop and a bag of money…

Oh, and a dentist that doesn’t hurt like fuck everytime they go poking around in my mouth…

You read everything except for the part where I said "already answered this".

It's cool if you wanna drivel on about something not even relevant. Not gonna entertain you.