AI's estrogen reduction

[ricky23]

Hey everybody.

Something I've always assumed is that all AI's of course inhibit aromatase enzymes (dose dependant) but also helps reduce existing estrogen.
Speaking with an endo though AI's do nothing for circulating estrogen, which is cleared by the liver. Only to prevent aromatase from converting any more test into estrogen.

Have to admit I didn't know that, always thought AI's brought down existing estrogen levels too.

Does anyone know for sure which one is true?

Thanks.

 

[Swifto]

Hey everybody.

Something I've always assumed is that all AI's of course inhibit aromatase enzymes (dose dependant) but also helps reduce existing estrogen.
Speaking with an endo though AI's do nothing for circulating estrogen, which is cleared by the liver. Only to prevent aromatase from converting any more test into estrogen.

Have to admit I didn't know that, always thought AI's brought down existing estrogen levels too.

Does anyone know for sure which one is true?

Thanks.

AIs work by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme from converting to estrogen from testosterone. They will do nothing for existing estrogen levels, correct.

From what I recall, 80% of circulating estrogen is via testosterone conversion in males. The rest is from other sites directly such as the brain, adrenal glands and testes.

 

[Swifto]

As shown in this study: https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00018.2016

"Ovaries are the major source of circulating estrogens in females, but in males, testes produce only ~20% of circulating estrogens, with the remainder from local production by adipose, brain, skin, and bone, which convert testosterone (T) to estrogen through aromatase actions (708)."

 

[ricky23]

Thanks Swifto!
Do you know the clearance rate roughly for estrogen in males? Probably very difficult to gauge though.

 

[ricky23]

As shown in this study: https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00018.2016

"Ovaries are the major source of circulating estrogens in females, but in males, testes produce only ~20% of circulating estrogens, with the remainder from local production by adipose, brain, skin, and bone, which convert testosterone (T) to estrogen through aromatase actions (708)."

Could be why AIs don’t do anything for hcg and intratesticular estrogen conversion from high doses

 

[brutus69]

Hey everybody.

Something I've always assumed is that all AI's of course inhibit aromatase enzymes (dose dependant) but also helps reduce existing estrogen.
Speaking with an endo though AI's do nothing for circulating estrogen, which is cleared by the liver. Only to prevent aromatase from converting any more test into estrogen.

Have to admit I didn't know that, always thought AI's brought down existing estrogen levels too.

Does anyone know for sure which one is true?

Thanks.

then why does too much adex crush your levels? i went from 77 to 8 on my e2 when i got on real adex.

 

[Swifto]

Could be why AIs don’t do anything for hcg and intratesticular estrogen conversion from high doses

Yes, they do nothing.

Tamoxifen will help prevent gynecomastia though.

 

[Serotonin]

Don't quote me on this because its been so long, and please correct me if I'm worng but...

Aromasin is a suicidal inhibitor so that will directly decrease circulating estrogen and I believe its the only AI of its kind that will. Arimidex and Letro work by stopping estrogen from being converted which indirectly lowers overall levels

then why does too much adex crush your levels? i went from 77 to 8 on my e2 when i got on real adex.

Because you're still lowering estro conversion, therefor circulation estrogen will eventually go down i.e. indirectly lowering estrogen

Kind of like if we all stopped burning fossil fuels the air quality would eventually get better...But we're not actually filtering the air out as well like aromasin would do with estrogen, lowering it via suicide

All AI's will in the end, lower estrogen. They all are very strong too, much stronger than most of us know. Especially letrozole.

All of these AI's are meant for breast cancer which means they are meant to crush estro to uncomfortable levels. So since the goals of weightlifters are different we must take much lower doses of AI's and get bloodwork done to make sure we still have estrogen, otherwise we will miss out on gains, period. Its pretty difficult not to overdose AI's. Lotta guys I know won't take them because they miss out on gains. But then they get the puffy face/body look so its a balancing act imo

 

[Slowmoe]

Based on experience circulating estrogen gets eliminated very quickly. For instance if I get puffy nips and take a dose of aromasin the next morning the puffiness is all but gone.

 

[Swifto]

Don't quote me on this because its been so long, and please correct me if I'm worng but...

Aromasin is a suicidal inhibitor so that will directly decrease circulating estrogen and I believe its the only AI of its kind that will. Arimidex and Letro work by stopping estrogen from being converted which indirectly lowers overall levels

Because you're still lowering estro conversion, therefor circulation estrogen will eventually go down i.e. indirectly lowering estrogen

Kind of like if we all stopped burning fossil fuels the air quality would eventually get better...But we're not actually filtering the air out as well like aromasin would do with estrogen, lowering it via suicide

All AI's will in the end, lower estrogen. They all are very strong too, much stronger than most of us know. Especially letrozole.

All of these AI's are meant for breast cancer which means they are meant to crush estro to uncomfortable levels. So since the goals of weightlifters are different we must take much lower doses of AI's and get bloodwork done to make sure we still have estrogen, otherwise we will miss out on gains, period. Its pretty difficult not to overdose AI's. Lotta guys I know won't take them because they miss out on gains. But then they get the puffy face/body look so its a balancing act imo

No, Exemestane still works by aromatase inhibition.

AIs are not "all very strong" and will "crush" estrogen. Not in males. Those studies were done in females and cancer patients.

AIs will lower E in eugundal males around 50%. Perhaps even less in AAS users.

 

[pahlevan]

Hey everybody.

Something I've always assumed is that all AI's of course inhibit aromatase enzymes (dose dependant) but also helps reduce existing estrogen.
Speaking with an endo though AI's do nothing for circulating estrogen, which is cleared by the liver. Only to prevent aromatase from converting any more test into estrogen.

Have to admit I didn't know that, always thought AI's brought down existing estrogen levels too.

Does anyone know for sure which one is true?

Thanks.

I believe Letro will inhibit the production of Estrogen period.