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Am I the only one who never has to use an aromatase inhibitor?

Butters

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nolvadex does NOT lower circulating levels of E2. it simply blocked it at the receptor


nolvadex metabolites work as anti aromatase... at least in vitro.

need someone smarter to confirm if they behave the same in vivo
 

opietaylor

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nolvadex metabolites work as anti aromatase... at least in vitro.

need someone smarter to confirm if they behave the same in vivo


blood work confirms otherwise. side note i've been involved in the scene since the 70's
 

opietaylor

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good topic that really needs debated more. were talking about using seriously powerful cancer drugs here with really strong side effects and for some using them for seriously long periods of time. concerning to say the least
 

madg

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point taken. although AI's did not exist in the 70's, 80's and 90's so why weren't guys dropping with liver tumors

No gh abuse to fuel them ? Just a thought ...

The average well developed gym rat these days is on more gh than someone finishing top 5 at the O in early 90s lol
 

madg

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good topic that really needs debated more. were talking about using seriously powerful cancer drugs here with really strong side effects and for some using them for seriously long periods of time. concerning to say the least

Agree brother

First years on i used only anabolics with time iff cause i didnt want to fuck with test and cancer drugs

Tbh i still to this day believe is a beter way to use for everyone EXCEPT those on profesional level

I love 70s and 80s i started lift to look like those guys
 

opietaylor

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No gh abuse to fuel them ? Just a thought ...

The average well developed gym rat these days is on more gh than someone finishing top 5 at the O in early 90s lol

thats a valid theory
 

Butters

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No gh abuse to fuel them ? Just a thought ...

The average well developed gym rat these days is on more gh than someone finishing top 5 at the O in early 90s lol


well, guys in the 90's barely used anything, because why would they? not like winning was important to them


levrone only used gear the last 2 days before a show :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

madg

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well, guys in the 90's barely used anything, because why would they? not like winning was important to them


levrone only used gear the last 2 days before a show :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Your ignorance shines in this post

Go learn what gh cost early 90s and none of your favorite chinese generics exist back then
 

Swifto

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It depends what camp you're in.

I'd prefer to keep E in range with an AI. High E in males isn't good for reasons already mentioned here.

I have a small case of gyno and E also causes me acne, so I'm left with using some sort of anti-estrogen. Even at low doses of aromatasable androgens I need an AE of some sort.

Recently, I've been using Ralox when E becomes an issue, or Tamox.
 

opietaylor

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Your ignorance shines in this post

Go learn what gh cost early 90s and none of your favorite chinese generics exist back then

do you seriously think that cost was keeping guys like Yates and Sonbaty from using serious amounts of GH? you have never heard the stories of european men showing up at golds venice a few months before the olympia with suitcases full of GH. your ignorance shines in this post
 

opietaylor

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It depends what camp you're in.

I'd prefer to keep E in range with an AI. High E in males isn't good for reasons already mentioned here.

I have a small case of gyno and E also causes me acne, so I'm left with using some sort of anti-estrogen. Even at low doses of aromatasable androgens I need an AE of some sort.

Recently, I've been using Ralox when E becomes an issue, or Tamox.


yep we are all unique thats why i hate to see guys constantly chirping about what a true TRT dose is blah, blah, blah. no one processes these drugs the same. not only does this apply to testosterone dose but what we individually decided to do with E2. what concerns me is the latter and where it may be leading guys in the community long term. no long term data. we are all guinea pigs for the most part. thats why i believe we should be debating this topic to death with all angles being addressed. merry christmas everyone. health and happiness in the new year
 

Crazy_jay

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Recently, I've been using Ralox when E becomes an issue, or Tamox.
How's that work out for you? Obviously it'll stop gyno but what about all the other impacts of estrogen. I've been a pro ai kind of person but slowly learning that ai's make me feel like shit and trying to find an alternative other than really low dose test(I didn't decide to permanently shut myself down and be on trt for life to run little baby doses and merely be normal all the time). On the flip side, I hold lots of water with high e and it wears me out and makes me tired, along with a lack of sex drive. High e doesn't seem to bother my nipples unless I add tren.

I've considered using tamoxifen but have failed to find clarity as to whether tamoxifen only blocks estrogen in breast tissue or whether it blocks out other e receptors too.
 

TRENUP80

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Im similar I dont need an AI unless I go over 600mg of test a week.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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How's that work out for you? Obviously it'll stop gyno but what about all the other impacts of estrogen. I've been a pro ai kind of person but slowly learning that ai's make me feel like shit and trying to find an alternative other than really low dose test(I didn't decide to permanently shut myself down and be on trt for life to run little baby doses and merely be normal all the time). On the flip side, I hold lots of water with high e and it wears me out and makes me tired, along with a lack of sex drive. High e doesn't seem to bother my nipples unless I add tren.

I've considered using tamoxifen but have failed to find clarity as to whether tamoxifen only blocks estrogen in breast tissue or whether it blocks out other e receptors too.
I also feel like shit over doing AI.

A year ago I switched to very low dose aromasin - 5-10mg total per WEEK - split in 2 doses depending on test dose. If I add something like diababol or anadrol I will also add 30mg evista (ralox) per day.

Feel much better after finding a protocol that works for ME instead of listening to parroted bro science.

I also totally agree with your sentiments about low doses. I didn't shut myself down permanently to run 70 fucking milligrams of testosterone a week. I prefer 200-300/week plus anabolics, some of which are also estrogenic...
 

gotgame

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This may come across as condescending but many posts on this thread remind of how physicians are supposed to approach say something like smoking in young teenager patients... we are told not to focus on things like say pancreatic and lung cancer but to instead talk more about wrinkles, teeth discoloration, smell.... all those superficial things that people who cant fully grasp the importance of things they cant see.


No one likes gyno or to be bloated..ya know the superficial things ya see

Ya know what you will hate a lot more.. ruptured hepatic adenomas, estrogen dependent liver cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, DVT, pulmonary emboli.

Keep estrogen in range. If AI side effects bother you try using those which dont cross blood brain barrier or is actively effluxed ( hmm not sure thats really a word...) Get labs. If you are running more then TRT doses for prolonged periods of time you likely need an AI...well ok no one NEEDS anything but you SHOULD have an AI on board.
 

Butters

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This may come across as condescending but many posts on this thread remind of how physicians are supposed to approach say something like smoking in young teenager patients... we are told not to focus on things like say pancreatic and lung cancer but to instead talk more about wrinkles, teeth discoloration, smell.... all those superficial things that people who cant fully grasp the importance of things they cant see.


No one likes gyno or to be bloated..ya know the superficial things ya see

Ya know what you will hate a lot more.. ruptured hepatic adenomas, estrogen dependent liver cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, DVT, pulmonary emboli.

Keep estrogen in range. If AI side effects bother you try using those which dont cross blood brain barrier or is actively effluxed ( hmm not sure thats really a word...) Get labs. If you are running more then TRT doses for prolonged periods of time you likely need an AI...well ok no one NEEDS anything but you SHOULD have an AI on board.


regarding adenomas, it was suggested to me that these are caused by liver damage in the presence of elevated estrogen.

bodybuilders typically have elevated estrogen due to gear usage, add in orals like dbol or anadrol, makes things worse, and directly damages the liver.

i imagine oral contraceptives also have the effect of damaging the liver, and they obviously increase estrogen.


am i way off the mark in this assessment?


i have basically done everything under the sun, dbol, drol, m1t for extended periods, high doses of tren for long periods of time.. my liver CT scan did not show any adenomas, but multiple hemangiomas.

i have always used AI


is an adenoma simply like a 'jack in the box' - where you never know when they will develop? is there a genetic component that essentially serves as a determining factor?

i imagine if i were the type to get them, i would certainly have them by now..

i worry about these too much...... or perhaps im not worried enough.

i dont use tren anymore, and never will again. and i only do anavar twice a week.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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I never had gyno until... ugh puberty

Lean and muscular wrestler and my nips were painful in middleschool.
 

TheRoid

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This may come across as condescending but many posts on this thread remind of how physicians are supposed to approach say something like smoking in young teenager patients... we are told not to focus on things like say pancreatic and lung cancer but to instead talk more about wrinkles, teeth discoloration, smell.... all those superficial things that people who cant fully grasp the importance of things they cant see.


No one likes gyno or to be bloated..ya know the superficial things ya see

Ya know what you will hate a lot more.. ruptured hepatic adenomas, estrogen dependent liver cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, DVT, pulmonary emboli.

Keep estrogen in range. If AI side effects bother you try using those which dont cross blood brain barrier or is actively effluxed ( hmm not sure thats really a word...) Get labs. If you are running more then TRT doses for prolonged periods of time you likely need an AI...well ok no one NEEDS anything but you SHOULD have an AI on board.
AI's not crossing the BBB? Which ones?
 

Kaladryn

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AI's not crossing the BBB? Which ones?
AI's don't generally cross the blood-brain barrier, Letro may but not proven. Aromatase in the brain very limited but may be important for things like sex drive. BTW AIs can't reach aromatase in the ovaries either, which is why they don't work as well in premenopausal women. It seems likely they can't reach testicular aromatase either, I've seen this proposed in research but never proven, it fits with their limited ability to reduce E2 in males.
 

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