anabolic/ androgenic ratios useless?

[nfernoo]

Was doing some "reading" today and found this

"What these numbers specify is the measured ratio of growth in rats of the levator ani muscle versus the prostate.
The levator ani is not a skeletal muscle, but is analogous to the human PCG muscle. It really is not a good assay for effect on skeletal muscle.
And prostate growth is of course a measurement only of that particular possible side effect. In rats.
So perhaps the reason that "anabolic/androgenic ratios" are useless in bb'ing is because they are derived from measurements which aren't useful: that is to say, they aren't good predictors.

There was a Russian protocol that actually may have been useful -- would have had a better chance, anyway, I think -- where anabolic effect was assayed by means of evaluating growth of the exercise-stimulated soleus muscle in rats. The soleus was stimulated by means of cutting the gastrocnemius while still in some way requiring the rats to walk or run, forcing the soleus to carry the entire load.

But I've never seen data from these measurements."

 

[nfernoo]

Anavar looks pretty good with its ratios but in real life (imo) less impressive.

I was reseaching because some one here stated trestolone will produce more muscle vs tren due to these ratios.

 

[nfernoo]

"How powerful is Trestolone Acetate (MENT) compared to Mentabolan (Mentdione), its precursor?There are no studies demonstrating bioavailability of these, but there are studies demonstrating their anabolic potency orally. Trestolone is significantly stronger than mentdione in what matters the most. This will only be magnified intramuscularly.

How powerful is Trestolone Acetate compared to Trenbolone?
Trestolone is hands down the stronger compound, with scientific evidence and anecdotal support. Trestolone has a 540:840 ratio when compared to methyltestosterone, meaning it is at least 5 times as androgenic and at least 8 times as anabolic. Intramuscularly, it is 2300:650. Trenbolone’s is 500:500. You do the math"

Idk. Sounds like a sour claim.
Actual muscle is goal, not water weight gain.
I don't mean to make this a trestolone post lol.

Just wondering how useful these ratios are to muscle gains

 

[epoxy]

"How powerful is Trestolone Acetate (MENT) compared to Mentabolan (Mentdione), its precursor?There are no studies demonstrating bioavailability of these, but there are studies demonstrating their anabolic potency orally. Trestolone is significantly stronger than mentdione in what matters the most. This will only be magnified intramuscularly.

How powerful is Trestolone Acetate compared to Trenbolone?
Trestolone is hands down the stronger compound, with scientific evidence and anecdotal support. Trestolone has a 540:840 ratio when compared to methyltestosterone, meaning it is at least 5 times as androgenic and at least 8 times as anabolic. Intramuscularly, it is 2300:650. Trenbolone’s is 500:500. You do the math"

Idk. Sounds like a sour claim.
Actual muscle is goal, not water weight gain.
I don't mean to make this a trestolone post lol.

Just wondering how useful these ratios are to muscle gains

Haven't heard anything STELLAR about trest since it hit the market, have you? Seems some people have just been trying it as a "legal" route because of its current ability to be sold via a sponsor here on the internet. Methyltestosterone, if you can find it, is the real fucking deal. That is 1 drug that will make you strong as an ox in a very short period of time. Shame it's not nearly as available as it used to be, considering it DID used to be legal. As far as Tren goes, nothing compares. Trestolone does not have the recomp ability that Tren does, I don't care what anyone claims. So back to the OP, no, the ratios don't really mean shit in a lot of scenarios. Ever seen the ratio of Halotestin? Off the charts, and yet it does jack shit for any kind of size gains.

 

[nfernoo]

Haven't heard anything STELLAR about trest since it hit the market, have you? Seems some people have just been trying it as a "legal" route because of its current ability to be sold via a sponsor here on the internet. Methyltestosterone, if you can find it, is the real fucking deal. That is 1 drug that will make you strong as an ox in a very short period of time. Shame it's not nearly as available as it used to be, considering it DID used to be legal. As far as Tren goes, nothing compares. Trestolone does not have the recomp ability that Tren does, I don't care what anyone claims. So back to the OP, no, the ratios don't really mean shit in a lot of scenarios. Ever seen the ratio of Halotestin? Off the charts, and yet it does jack shit for any kind of size gains.

Methyl test be good for muscle gains?
injectable?

 

[jrock00123]

Methyl test be good for muscle gains?
injectable?

I believe it's also pretty nasty especially on lipids. Seems like the stronger the compound, the greater the health risk. Still have half a bottle of sd that I just can't seem to throw away even though I know I should.

 

[Marvin Martian]

Haven't heard anything STELLAR about trest since it hit the market, have you? Seems some people have just been trying it as a "legal" route because of its current ability to be sold via a sponsor here on the internet. Methyltestosterone, if you can find it, is the real fucking deal. That is 1 drug that will make you strong as an ox in a very short period of time. Shame it's not nearly as available as it used to be, considering it DID used to be legal. As far as Tren goes, nothing compares. Trestolone does not have the recomp ability that Tren does, I don't care what anyone claims. So back to the OP, no, the ratios don't really mean shit in a lot of scenarios. Ever seen the ratio of Halotestin? Off the charts, and yet it does jack shit for any kind of size gains.

Have you used Trest? I have and I absolutely LOVE it.. Its been incredible for recomp and I feel awesome.. I am far from a newb - been doing this 20 years and competed about a dozen times with success... I don't care what anyone "hears" - I know this works well for ME.. We are not all the same obviously so maybe for you it doesn't work well. I admit that I am a very good responder to just about anything so that is worth noting. I started at 245 and not what I consider hard at all. Ended at 238 with all abs clear and veins in arms / legs .. Not contest shape but what the average person would call "cut"
5"9.75" (ok maybe not .75)

 

[nfernoo]

I believe it's also pretty nasty especially on lipids. Seems like the stronger the compound, the greater the health risk. Still have half a bottle of sd that I just can't seem to throw away even though I know I should.

If I remember the sides weren't worth it.

 

[nfernoo]

Have you used Trest? I have and I absolutely LOVE it.. Its been incredible for recomp and I feel awesome.. I am far from a newb - been doing this 20 years and competed about a dozen times with success... I don't care what anyone "hears" - I know this works well for ME.. We are not all the same obviously so maybe for you it doesn't work well. I admit that I am a very good responder to just about anything so that is worth noting. I started at 245 and not what I consider hard at all. Ended at 238 with all abs clear and veins in arms / legs .. Not contest shape but what the average person would call "cut"
5"9.75" (ok maybe not .75)

Yeah from the people that tried legit, they loved it.

I'm wondering about muscle gains vs tren.

One guy compared 100mg a day of trest to test/tren stack at high dosages

 

[Ehren]

Methyltestosterone, if you can find it, is the real fucking deal.

Do you mean Methyl 1-Test (M1T)? That is some crazy shit. Some of our sponsors still carry it.

Methyltest, I used to use before PL comps or on days approaching max training loads. Great for power and aggression, but didn't notice much tissue from it. It was fun though

To the OP: I don't think these ratios are very useful in real world scenarios. In terms of power, when something has a low androgenic/ low anabolic ratio for example, users just tend to take more. Primobolan for example. Which, I'd think would multiply sides even for a "mild" compound.

 

[Marvin Martian]

Yeah from the people that tried legit, they loved it.

I'm wondering about muscle gains vs tren.

One guy compared 100mg a day of trest to test/tren stack at high dosages

I would say that's a fair comparison man.. I know I sound like a homer for Trest - but I love it. I have zero connection to any company. In fact I had a shipping error on my last order and have to resolve it. BUT - the stuff is freaking amazing in my opinion... Whats awesome is that I "FEEL" great on Trest.. I don't have the increase in BP - or just that cracked out / anxious feeling that high dose Tren gives me.. I sleep like a baby (minus the shitting my pants ) And the results are undeniable...

 

[nfernoo]

I would say that's a fair comparison man.. I know I sound like a homer for Trest - but I love it. I have zero connection to any company. In fact I had a shipping error on my last order and have to resolve it. BUT - the stuff is freaking amazing in my opinion... Whats awesome is that I "FEEL" great on Trest.. I don't have the increase in BP - or just that cracked out / anxious feeling that high dose Tren gives me.. I sleep like a baby (minus the shitting my pants ) And the results are undeniable...

All I remember is shit on pants lol.

Would u say equal results muscle/recomp as high test/tren?

High bp, insomnia, and acid reflux would be awesome to remove if similar results at 100mg daily trest.

But all say tren is better than anything

 

[TrinityD]

M1t is crazy imo. Just steer clear of it lol.

 

[nfernoo]

M1t is crazy imo. Just steer clear of it lol.

Ive only used gp brand. Hsrd stuff.

Celtic labs log coming soon

 

[Marvin Martian]

Ive only used gp brand. Hsrd stuff.

Celtic labs log coming soon

You will NOT regret using Celtic..

 

[nfernoo]

You will NOT regret using Celtic..

Well I'm logging their m1t.
not pure oils trest

 

[epoxy]

Well I'm logging their m1t.
not pure oils trest

their m1t is not actually m1t, but i'm sure you already know that.

real m1t has me putting more weights on the bar than tren+adrol combined.

 

[epoxy]

All I remember is shit on pants lol.

Would u say equal results muscle/recomp as high test/tren?

High bp, insomnia, and acid reflux would be awesome to remove if similar results at 100mg daily trest.

But all say tren is better than anything

tren IS better than anything. i think a lot of the trest users are looking for a "tren like" replacement without the sides. no pain no gain though right? if trest was 100% as good as tren and lacked the side effects, would anyone still be using tren at this point? tren is still king.

 

[Marvin Martian]

Well I'm logging their m1t.
not pure oils trest

LOL - yeh I guess I didn't really pay attention.. I have never actually used anything from Celtic.. Do you like their products? I would assume they are good since they are with Pure Oils.. I have never used any of those oral compounds but I want to try one.. I just don't know a lot about them and I have never used M1

I have always had great results from the basics - but that doesn't mean I wont try new things (ie. Trest) Once I find something that works I stick with it...

I have not yet used Trest over 50mg/day but I can imagine that it will be pretty incredible...

 

[nfernoo]

LOL - yeh I guess I didn't really pay attention.. I have never actually used anything from Celtic.. Do you like their products? I would assume they are good since they are with Pure Oils.. I have never used any of those oral compounds but I want to try one.. I just don't know a lot about them and I have never used M1

I have always had great results from the basics - but that doesn't mean I wont try new things (ie. Trest) Once I find something that works I stick with it...

I have not yet used Trest over 50mg/day but I can imagine that it will be pretty incredible...

Celtic gave me free cycle but haven't started yet.
never used before otherwise